How to protect baby from infections?

[butterfly92]

Hi ladies... I know you are all probably going to find me odd and weird but this is genuinely how I am feeling and I am sure not many of you will agree but just after some friendly advice!!

I am not getting the whooping cough vaccination simply because I believe there are too many risks of having it. I am not anti vax though, I am getting baby vaccinated but I am not doing it now because I am worried about what can happen.

I am due in October so it will be winter and planning on keeping baby indoors for the first two months until he gets his vaccines. My partner and I are getting the whooping cough vaccine after he is born! I have notified my family that nobody can visit until he has had them :/

Just wondering if I HAD to go out, would a rain cover protect him from germs or breathing in bacteria, Even if it isn't raining? Thank you .. I am an Anxious mum to be!!

[AlwaysawakeFsake]

Sorely*

[TheHubblesWindscreenWipers]

Ah. The natural is good thing. Ok.

Cancer? Natural
Arsenic? Natural.
Asbestos? Natural!
Dranunculus worms? Totally natural.

Our bodies do a fab job and our immune systems are mind bogglingly wonderful. Our pathogens however have had an awful ling time to co evolve with us and they're pretty good at what they do too.
We support our immune systems with vaccines.

Incidentally, no scientist on earth would argue against the potency of various plant/animal derived compounds. Things like aspirin, curare etc are of course all derived from nature.

Scientists work with and are inspired by and often just pinch nature's better works :)

[TheHubblesWindscreenWipers]

No probs. Hopefully we can keep the argument respectful. You don't change people's minds by calling them an idiot!

This is a field I've devoted my life to and I'm passionate about it

[Alisvolatpropiis]

When people had only nature to rely on, an awful lot of them died. Particularly children.

I presume you're as keen to rely on nature should you ever have a cancer diagnosis or a heart problem as you are to deprive your children of potentially life saving vaccines?

[AlwaysawakeFsake]

Thank you Hubbles for your informative and scientific comments. I hope that in the future pro and antivaxers can coexist peacefully on this planet. I will of course, as a responsible parent, take your comments into account. Fanella on the other hand. Tutut. No need to get so uppety!

[AlwaysawakeFsake]

Potentiaĺly, yes. I will let my baby thrive naturally (as she has been doing for the past 5months) and I will take life as it comes, naturally.

[GinIsIn]

Always - one, is Fenella. Two, trust in nature?! "Natural medicine" has by definition never been proven to work, or been proven not to work. There are plenty of natural products that have medical uses. Like willow bark for aspirin. And they have been scientifically tested, passed into regular usage and are just called MEDICINE.

A quick glance at infant mortality rates compared to uses of vaccination is enough to substantiate their worth.

Your unsubstantiated claims are both ignorant and dangerous.

Would I rather a dead child? Of course not - that is exactly what I am trying to explain to you. I would rather my child be protected against a common and deadly disease by vaccinating it than I would ignore the benefits of vaccination because of the tiny chance of a side effect. Apparently you think this is stupid, and that's why I think you are an idiot. But luckily I choose to put my faith in science, reasearch and common sense, not crackpot opinions like yours.

[GinIsIn]

Oh and ps. I am not uppity, I am angry. Because you are trying to advise a worried mother not to vaccinate on the basis of absolute bollocks. If your child picks up meningitis or measles because you haven't bothered to protect her against them, will you be leaving that to nature as well, or heading straight to A&E for scientifically researched medical treatment....? Bet you will want some of those life saving chemicals then...

[Daisies123]

Please talk to your GP about how you're feeling as it really doesn't sound sensible to propose staying in for eight weeks with the baby.

Also, the vaccine is safe and a very sensible way of protecting against something that can kill a small baby. At work I look after a collection of historical autobiographies and it is so so common to read about babies and children suffering disabilities or death from something that is so easily vaccinated against now. I am so so relieved to have had a baby now with all the wonders of preventative healthcare available to us.

My baby is now 8mo and we were careful in the first eight weeks, mainly because there isn't much you can do to help them before that as things like Calpol are for 2 months plus. But that just meant washing our hands regularly and asking people with colds not to come near her. She now has her sixth cold!

[dodobookends]

How long did it last? Weren't you vaccinated from it?

It lasted about 6 months, and my coughing fits were loud enough to set dogs barking a quarter of a mile away. I assume I was vaccinated, as the programme was introduced in the 1950's, but both parents deceased so nobody to ask.

[TheHubblesWindscreenWipers]

Also - everything is chemicals. It's the dose that makes the poison. You can kill yourself drinking too much water or tiny amounts of a radioisotope can save you from certain cancers.
Nature isn't a benign 'thing' - it's a complex, often violent system in which the main characteristics are struggle and conflict. It's not directed from outside. Each organism fights tooth and claw for survival - that includes us, as humans, and things like the Ebola virus. Both succeed by reproducing. It's just that we see humans as worthy of success and Ebola as something that needs wiping out.
Infant mortality rates before modern medicine and hygiene were truly shocking. Even today if you go to places like Somalia, women are left dead or horribly injured by birth every day. Natural isn't better just because it's natural. I guarantee you that if you went to a rural clinic in the developing world and tried to push an antivacx view the mums there would be horrified - because they see they damage childhood diseases do every day.

Scientists certainly use nature for inspiration. Antibiotics are basically what things like fungi use for chemical warfare. Drug discovery uses nature as a starting point loads. So we certainly don't discount nature. What we do is explore, develop and crucially, test drugs. If it works, happy days. If not, back to the drawing board. Pharma companies will find a way to make money out of anything that works, regardless of of its traditional or not. If it works, it stops being alternative medicine and starts being medicine. All that matters is that it works.

Homeopathic stuff etc doesn't work, hence no one is charging you top dollar for it. Natural medicines have a place - St. John's wort for example, or peppermint for mild indigestion. They are a useful compliment for mild ailments. I often brew up honey, ginger and lemon if I've got a cold.
However, if I had strep throat, I'd be down the docs for antibiotics because that shit can kill you. It's the same with vaccines. Breastfeed, support you immune system with a healthy lifestyle, but vaccinate too, because honestly, you do not want measles. And if I may be strident about it, if you don't vaccinate, your kids are a danger to their community

[Writerwannabe83]

If your child picks up meningitis or measles because you haven't bothered to protect her against them, will you be leaving that to nature as well, or heading straight to A&E for scientifically researched
medical treatment....? Bet you will want some of those life saving chemicals then... hmm

Well said.

I'm a children's nurse, working with 0-2 year olds and I have seen some very severe cases of whooping cough. I've seen very young babies be so sick they've required ventilating and sending to intensive care and I have also seen babies die from it. Whooping cough kills.

Thankfully 99% of the babies/infants/toddlers I see on my ward have been vaccinated but like I said, we do see the terrible outcomes of the remainder of the children whose parents chose not to vaccinate them.

[AlwaysawakeFsake]

Fenella, I did not say that it was stupid to vaccinate. I am not an idiot. I have not used medication in a year as I have not been sick. Not even had a cold. My baby is breastfed and is very healthy and well. She has only ever had one cold in the past five months. She has also been around a child with mumps and did not contract it. I am not depriving my child of anything. I just have different beliefs to pro vaxxers. If I can keep my baby healthy through regular hygiene, being aware of people around us, feeding breastmilk up to a yr old, good food, a good sleep pattern and all the love in the world I don't see why my baby would get sick and die. I said to Butterfly if she is afraid to get vaccines then do some research. I don't believe that they are completely safe and through plenty of research I can honestly say I will take the responsibility for my actions as a conscientious parent. You have no right to condemn me or my point of view. I have a right to choose how to raise my children and give my opinion.

[GinIsIn]

"I exposed my unvaccinated child to mumps and she was fine so I don't see the problem"?! Jesus wept!! Damn right, I'm condemning your point of view, because it's potentially harmful for your child and others that you expose your unvaccinated special snowflake to!!

[GinIsIn]

And newsflash- children get sick and die all the time. To imply that it can be prevented by love and sleep is unbelievably crass and stupid to those parents who have lost children to illness.

[Writerwannabe83]

Always - are you seriously saying that by loving your child and getting them in a good sleep routine it will prevent them from getting a serious, potentially life threatening illness?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[AlwaysawakeFsake]

My unvaccinated child should be no harm to any vaccinated child seen as they're all vaccinated. Well that's if it actually works. Fennel. Bless you and your scaremongering. I will have to leave this group now to keep my sanity intact.

[Wolfiefan]

Bit of a derailment.
OP if you are about the real issue here isn't actually vaccination but your out of control anxiety. Please seek help.

[GinIsIn]

always - I was thinking more of immunocompromised people who aren't able to receive vaccinations.

Nice to know you are planning on relying on herd immunity without bothering to vaccinate yourself...

Not once have I scaremongered, I have pointed out facts and evidence. Scaremongering is when you try and drum up fear with no evidence. Like saying "ooh, vaccinations are bad and scary because of chemicals. All you need is nature and to give your special snowflake cuddles."

[TheHubblesWindscreenWipers]

Lots of people can't have vaccines or have knackered immune systems ( cancer, taking steroids) Or are too young to have had the vaccine. There's a minority of people who just don't have an immune response if you vaccinate them. All those people are at risk from your child. You could kill a transplant patient. Or someone taking a TNF alpha inhibitor for rheumatoid arthritis.
loving your child and keeping them as healthy as you can is nice ( we all do that though) but it's not going to protect them against measles. Or cancer- think about what that implies for kids who have cancer - didn't their parents love them enough?
You are actually relying on everyone else around you to get vaccinated to protect your kids, without reciprocating. That's a very risky strategy ( as well as being socially unacceptable.) the problem is that herd immunity needs very high levels of vaccine uptake to work, generally over 95%. That 5% is already accounted for in the young, the sick etc. We can't afford for people to refuse vaccines with no medical reason. When it drops below a certain level a disease can rip through a community like wildfire. This happens. Children die (sometimes adults too.) happened in South Wales a yet or two back with measles. Happened in the Disney USA outbreak the other year.

All the love in the world ( and I don't doubt you love your kids) won't stop them getting a disease. Something like measles is a few orders of magnitude more infectious than mumps ( which can often be asymptomatic, you can't say they didn't catch it without antibody testing.) If you're in a room with someone with measles, you're exposed. Ebola, by contrast, you'd need actual exposure to infected fluids. What's it they say? If you go to a party with smallpox, only the people you dance with will catch it. If you go with measles, everyone will.

Can I ask where you draw the line? What would you do if your child got measles and had brain swelling for example? What if they were unfortunate enough to get cancer? Streptococcus? That can kill in hours. Sepsis from a simple graze from playing in the garden? Do they have tetanus shots? What would you do? Up until now thankfully you've been lucky and not had to deal with anything other than a cold. What if your baby gets really sick? What if there's an outbreak of measles in your area and a couple of kids have ended up brain damaged, deaf or dead?
My son had a thankfully short and harmful high fever last month, with a temp of almost 40. I can't tell you the utter panic I felt watching my little boy have a soaring fever and look so poorly. I would have done anything to make him better. Thankfully it was just a 24 hour fever but it's a reminder of vulnerable little one are.

Please have a think about it - doctors just want you to be healthy. There's no agenda other than healthy kids here. Please vaccinate them. As an adult you can refuse whatever you want, but your kids deserve all the protection they can get.

[TheHubblesWindscreenWipers]

Harmless! Jeez ...

[Kalispera]

Always you sound like a gullible, blithe idiot.

By 'being aware of people' you can see no good reason that you child might die.

It's one thing for you to believe that (although frankly I'd bloody hate to be in the position of being your child) but to come on to a thread started by someone suffering from anxiety and grieving three children, to try and espouse your utter tripe, is fucking appalling behaviour.

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

I'm 47 and remember having whooping cough when I was 4,it was awful. Please get the vaccine.

[motherinferior]

Please go and see your GP and ask about perinatal mental health support. It is very patchy across the UK but there are some amazing services.

Always, you are peddling dangerous nonsense not least in your assertion that the OP would 'love motherhood'. Motherhood can be quite tough, actually. It's not all about lots of sleep and love.

[Atenco]

I'm 62 and have never had whooping cough, is it on the rise.

I am a grandmother who vaccinated my dd, but nowadays the list of vaccines is so long and there is, IMHO, a lot less control over pharmaceutical companies. I honestly do not trust pharmaceutical companies to put health before profit.