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Original poster

Anyone catch the Jeremy Vine show Tuesday 1/6? Book about kids and nice manners

42 replies

Soozi · 01/06/2004 14:41

Found this very interesting. Basically this woman has written a book on teaching kids to behave. She came over really well and said that she doesn't profess to be correct all the time but was spurned to writing the book because many parents lament about lack of advice. She said it was just notes on how she'd done it and how she could take her kids anywhere without fear of tantrums. People then contacted the show giving their tuppence worth with many saying that the woman lived in the 50s and 60s and that she should let her children live a little.

It seems to me that those who spoke against her opinions were the ones that would benefit the most from reading her book. Maybe I'm old fashioned or perhaps just in need of some topical debate? Anyone else catch it?

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Kayleigh · 01/06/2004 14:49

Caught the argument between her and a lady from Liverpool. It all sounded really interesting but only caught snippets as was trying to stop my two boys killing each other. They were being very polite while they did it though

hmb · 01/06/2004 14:57

I listened to it and found the discussion very interesting. The woman who was against the idea was, to my mind, very rude and agressive in her comments. She made several personal attacks on the author and commented on how happy said author's chilren would be not to be brought up by her (IYSWIM) without having ever met the writer or her children.

How can teaching manners in what seemed to be a very positive and suppportive way everbe a bad thing?

I teach at secondary school and I'm sorry but lots of the kids I teach have never 'just picked up' manners. In lessons where these children make up the majority we have far less fun than in lessons where children understand how to share, take turns and listen politly when someone else is talking. I have to insist on children having manners in class. For example I don't lend pens etc unless asked with a 'Please' and will never let go of a pen unless I hear a 'thank you'. Some of these kids look at me as if I am from Planet Tharg. Well tough! In my lesson people are polite. It makes life better for everyone IMHO!

Tinker · 01/06/2004 15:03

Er hang on, she was NOT from Liverpool!! She was that Michelle from the House Swap programme and either her or her husband are always on Jeremy Vine - drafted in as Rent-a-Gobs for a cheap laugh. No-one but no-one would to take anything they say seriously, surely.

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hmb · 01/06/2004 15:07

I thought that they said that she was a single mother with one child? So not the monstrous woman from Wife swap? Mind you they sounded like sisters under the shin

Sonnet · 01/06/2004 15:09

missed this - what is the book called - sounds interesting..

Tinker · 01/06/2004 15:10

She said she'd brought up her daughter as a single mother and with a step-dad - presume she must have meant the monstrous Barry! It's a voice you can't forget really

hmb · 01/06/2004 15:18

How the one kid statement??? I thought that she was awash with children? (that we are paying to support )

God, I should have recognised her subtle and well thought out debating style!!

serenequeen · 01/06/2004 15:21

i think you are getting her confused with lizzie from rochdale, hmb, as i did...

moominmama86 · 01/06/2004 15:24

I thought she sounded familiar! TBH I thought she was on as a joke. Although I must also say that although I agree with what the author was saying, she did come across a just a wee bit smug about her beautifully-behaved children...

aloha · 01/06/2004 15:39

I absolutely hate that aspect of radio 'debates' they get someone on saying something rational, considered and polite, and then 'in the interests of balance' get some raving loony to spout some extremist - and often personally abusive - crp that nobody agrees with. That's not balance, that's just a stupid shouting match. They think it's good for ratings, but it just makes me switch off. I know* they also filter the callers on phone-ins to encourage them to be abusive and make personal comments. I do think we need a more polite society in these cases.

hmb · 01/06/2004 15:42

Was she Micelle from Wife swap, and if so, was this a set up?? Am I being terminally did, but I don't usualy listen to JV as I am usualy in work when his program is on.

Kayleigh · 01/06/2004 15:42

sorry Tinker. Am obviously useless at accents. As I said, didn't catch the whole thing so came in mid argument. Thought she was being particularly offensive.

Tinker · 01/06/2004 15:46

It's ok kayleigh, just my ears prick up at the word 'Liverpool'

Don't know if it's a set-up hmb, just that they might always be ringing in.

moominmama86 · 01/06/2004 15:46

It really didn't help that JV was quite clearly sniggering away afterwards - "Oh, aren't we hilarious and provocative?" etc, etc. Thought he was supposed to be the serious journalist on R2?

Jimjams · 01/06/2004 16:23

oh hate all these books though. People read them then think they have even more of a reason to tut tut at ds1 or comment on his behaviour. Call me defensive but I just couldn't face tesco's today because a) it's half term so I have no idea what time is quiet and b) just couldn't face the comments today. All I need is someone behind me in the queue with a perfect angel whose just read a book on manners.

The people who need to read books like this aren't going to read them anyway- they're too busy swearing at their kids.

hmb · 01/06/2004 16:35

Agree that those who most need to read the book will not do so!

I do wish that NT kids are taught manners tho' and that includes a real understanding of the needs of others, such as your ds who are different to them! Rather than the 'me first, stuff you, want it now, so gimme' attitue that too many have . God help me, I sound like my Mother!

Oh and it may interest, and please, you to know that the 'Have you got an NT child?' website has now been posted on the Times Ed website.

Freckle · 01/06/2004 16:37

I have to say that I despair of instilling what I consider to be good manners in my children. DS1 (10) even said to me yesterday that he didn't care if he had good manners or not, he couldn't see the point. I had to point out that, even if he didn't care, other people did and it could seriously affect his life if he didn't see the point.

Bad manners (not necessarily bad behaviour) are a particular bugbear of mine. I'm almost driven to road rage when drivers don't thank me for letting them out, etc.

And, Jimjams, since having children of my own, I would never criticise (openly or otherwise) any parent who was being given a hard time by their children. I would empathise, albeit not obviously.

Freckle · 01/06/2004 16:38

Sorry, probably being a bit thick, but what's an NT child?

hmb · 01/06/2004 16:40

Sorry, neurologicaly typical.....short hand for a child without a diagnosis like autism, adhd etc

Original poster

Soozi · 01/06/2004 16:44

Didn't quite catch the name of the book - the author was penny something or other. Heck I am pretty disillusioned (or just naive) if they have drafted in people to be deliberately antagonistic on the JV programme.

I think that good manners don't cost anything and they go a long way but don't feel the need to read a book to enlighten me on how best to go about it.

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sarochka · 01/06/2004 19:22

As my dd aged 2 and a bit through herself on the floor in M&S today, I felt again those eyes on me. You know the ones - some are so dissapproving and others emphatic. Well I did hear some of the debate today and agree with jimjams, people that could do with reading this book are too busy swearing at their kids or can't read small print anyway. This may sound harsh but I also work as a teacher in a secondary school and meet these people every day and their offspring. I get on well with them for some reason but it doesn't mean that I don't cringe when I see these kids pushing and shoving and swearing their way around....I think alot of people simply can't be bothered to put the effort in with their children or simply don't realise why they should. Like giving fanta to babies in bottles etc...oh well

Jimjams · 01/06/2004 20:45

It's not so much that I'm being given a hard time by ds1. I'm pretty irrelevant to be honest. He just shouts. When we walk in tescos he shouts because he wasnts to see the hoovers, then he shouts because he wants to see the barbie washing machines (all hell will break loose when they stop stocking those), then he shouts because he wants to look at the sink behind the meat counter, then he shouts because he wants to look at the meat counter sink again, then he shouts because we have to queue for the till, then because we have to pack.

You would think that people might clock that there was something wrong considering he's 5 and squeezed into a toddler trolley seat, and just shouting or wailing rather than actually using any words but for some reason they don't.

Occasionaly he has been told off by someone (like the old lady who told him off for not putting his hand over his mouth when he coughed- it was some tic thing he had going on for a few weeks). But they normally end up confused as he completely blanks them or pushes them away. I usually can't be bothered to explain (especially to old ladies tbh). Carries on doing whatever he's doing anyway.

But the idea of a smug mummy behind me who's just read a book on manners gives me the shudders. Surely the people who are going to instill good manners will do it anyway (if possible).

Ds2 is a nightmare as well but in a funny way and at least he's conventional and will say please and thank you when asked (and he's 2 so people don't expect much).

hmb · 01/06/2004 21:02

I sort of agree with you Jimjams, but do you think that people have always been this rude and self centred?

Looking back to my childhood it seemed that most people were well mannered and put the needs of other above their own (at least sometimes). People used to give up seats on the buss for those that needed it more etc. To my mind that doesn't seem to be happeneing as often nowerdays. Am I just turning inot my mother?

Only the worst kids would use the F word to teachers or call them a Bitch, but it seems all to common.

I don't think a goody two shoe book is the way to go about things but I would like to do something to improve standards of behaviour. And not just for shallow things. We started the Welfare State ffs, and where is it now? Nye Bevan must be spining. Isn't society poorer because of the 'me first' attitude that so many people seem to have?

Jimjams · 01/06/2004 21:09

Yes, agree with all of that- but I think that's a different argument hmb. I'm sure people woud have been more judging of ds1 back in the 70's. Unless- and this comes from chatting with my cleaner last week- the fact that in general people were politer meant that his behaviour would have stood out as being abnormal iyswim.

My cleaner basically said (and she's not the first person to have said htis to me) that getting to know ds1 means that she know views tantrums from older children as slightly different and doesn't automatically assume they are badly behaved. She sad that she still finds it strange becuase to look at him you just can't tell how severely disabled he is. But she said there are so many badly behaved children out there that its not wonder people make assumptions. Which is true I guess.

Living in Japan was interesting. People generally still had a lot of resepct for each other. There were a lot of good things about living there.

codswallop · 01/06/2004 21:11

atricle int he times about the book today

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