Is 14 months too young for discipline? And what should I be doing if not smacking?

[MerryMarigold]

SO CONFUSED.

I think ds is at an age where he can learn what is acceptable/ not acceptable. But am not sure how to teach him. It is a very few simple things like:

• do not put your hand in poo when I am changing you (did it 4 times during one bad nappy change the other day!)
• stop doing something when I ask (eg. banging on the TV)
• don't spit out food

My Mum thinks smacking is the way as we were smacked and it didn't do us any harm (that we can pinpoint). As long as it is only 1 smack and you have not lost it, she says it is fine. I have read things that say it isn't ok (without explaining WHY it's not ok), so I am really confused now.

He is far too young to understand 'reason', so how to I teach him that he needs to obey if Mummy says 'stop' if not smacking?

He's a very happy, confident little boy, and I don't want to bash that out of him, but neither do I want a child who is badly behaved/ disobedient/ disrespectful.

Please help!

Yes, look at the number of us who have trouble when there is a nice bottle of wine or bar of chocolate in the fridge! We know we shouldn't touch but....

Thanks Hipp. It is comforting to know it works in the end! I know that he isn't doing it to be disobedient or malicious and I really don't buy into the 'babies are manipulative little creatures' thesis. But I do believe they need to be taught some boundaries. Just wondered at what age/ how this is possible.

Well, you've had lots of suggestions on what you might want to do on this thread.

I have 16 month DD and 3.2 DS. He definitely has more boundaries. But I really couldn't tell you how or when it happened .

I also don't do the time out/putting on stairs thing. I remove DS or DD from situation, I may put DS on the sofa but that is just as much to give us both some space from the situation.

This is a really useful, interesting thread. I try very hard to do a lot of what has been suggested, but it's not always easy. ds is 19m, and I am 39w pg and a little....testy at times, lol! When I find myself getting annoyed, I try and remind myself why he's doing what he's doing. For example, he's 19m old and he's just exploring his world - it's just that he doesn't realise it's a little dangerous to climb onto the dining table and wander off to the edge. Or, he's 19m and all his toys seem to encourage him to press buttons to get flashy lights/noises, so it's understandable that he likes switching the tv on and off and on and off and etc. I don't think he's "naughty" and needs "discipline", he's normal and exhibiting normal toddler behaviour (including the more distressing "normal" behaviour like hitting other kids when they want to play with his toys). But I like the other suggestions on this thread of dealing with the more unnacceptable normal behaviours, lol!

How can anyone NOT buy into the 'babies are manipulative' thesis

of course they are

its the nature of humanity

I want something and cannot communicate so I shall manipulate you into doing what I want by a) gurgling b) smiling c) pointing d) shrieking e) weeping

of course they manipulate us .. of course they do .. they do .. they do .. they do

they do

Yes you're right, loads of good ideas, aloha (I posted before I saw your original one), although I didn't realise what a lot of controversy there is in all this and will have to read and digest more when ds is asleep tonight! I still don't really understand the deeper 'why's' like why NOT a naughty step or why it is a good thing, but I am sure that would kick off a whole lot of differing opinions. Any book recommendations?

do not be afraid of setting boundaries

Children need boundaries to feel secure and loved

children without boundaries are also known as brats

Agree with so much that's been said. When you say no ask yourself why you had to say no. Does it relate to something you could realistically move? then move it. Does it relate to something you really don't need to control? then try to take a deep breath more often. Is said child actually trying to show you how bright and engaged with the world they are? if so try to be proud of them and find a substitute item they can explore.
All easier said than done, especially if you're knackered, but better than smacking, that's pointless in my opinion.

Oh Twiglett I disagree that 14month old can be 'manipulative'. That, to me, implies a cunning understanding of how they can pretend to feel something in order to change your feelings, and that is way beyond their capability. They just express their feelings - disappointment, rage, sorrow - it the most straightforward way possible.

I do find that a lot of the things people panic about with small children just aren't an issue when they get older, because then they have been through that stage and you can reason with them to a much greater degree.

Message withdrawn

This is a very interesting thread...I have 3dc...4 1/2, 3 and 15 mths...They all have firm boundaries, the eldest does have timeout which works for me as it diffuses the situation...does not happen all that often though, i have found giving one warning that behaviour is not acceptable, with a clear consequence (no computer, no book/drawing) works well with the older two. With the lo, things are more relaxed although if he is doing something unsafe I remove it...damaging to the older two, us or the animals he is told firmly "no" then if it happens again i pop him in the play pen, for a minute.
My friend went down the negotiating road with her now 4 1/2 year old dc, and the dc now thinks that she can talk her way out of anything/get what she wants by negotiating, and is struggling in the school enviroment as a result.......
agree with twigglet....they learn at an early age to manipulate, it's part of the survival instinct in all humans...

This is a very interesting thread...I have 3dc...4 1/2, 3 and 15 mths...They all have firm boundaries, the eldest does have timeout which works for me as it diffuses the situation...does not happen all that often though, i have found giving one warning that behaviour is not acceptable, with a clear consequence (no computer, no book/drawing) works well with the older two. With the lo, things are more relaxed although if he is doing something unsafe I remove it...damaging to the older two, us or the animals he is told firmly "no" then if it happens again i pop him in the play pen, for a minute.
My friend went down the negotiating road with her now 4 1/2 year old dc, and the dc now thinks that she can talk her way out of anything/get what she wants by negotiating, and is struggling in the school enviroment as a result.......
agree with twigglet....they learn at an early age to manipulate, it's part of the survival instinct in all humans...

I agree with Aloha in that I don't believe a 14m is being manipulative. I also believe that what is seen as being manipulative by young children is the child trying to understand "why not?". If you don't have any good reason for saying no, then I don't think it's fair to resort to bullying tactics just because you are the adult (usually meaning because I am bigger than you). One day that child may be bigger than you are and then you will need the reasoning skills that have been developed during their younger years. You will also need to have developed your child's trust in you so that they know when you say no about something it's probably because it's not a good idea and not because 'I said so'. It's also better to have a child learn not to do something because it's not the right thing to do and not because if they do and are found out someone will punish them.
Obviously if they are doing something dangerous the action (removing dangerous object) should happen quickly and the reasoning happen afterwards.
Manky - if your friend's little girl thinks she can talk her way out of anything, then good for her. It's not a bad skill to have.
I don't doubt she finds the school environment difficult if it's a school where she is expected to obey without explanation.

but surely there are times when a child has to be told no, or be given an instruction and obey it without delay....what if they never learn that, and it becomes a real issue...i agree negotiating is an important life skill, and my dc all are more than capable of it, but there comes a time where no means no..not, well what if i do this instead....As for the smacking issue, no dont't smack mine, and at the moment can't see me choosing to do that, it's not the way i want to do things. strangley enough, my friend who negotiates with her dc, has now smacker her a few times....something she always said she would never do, but the child just would not take no for an answer...which way is crueller or more confusing for the child?

I agree with Mum is the boss when it comes to clothes on, dinner time, coat on for the cold, etc. DD (2) has plenty of independence, choice of which trousers to put on, which fruit, orange or banana, which story etc, when it makes no difference to me. We say no, when it's important to, and stick to it (oh why won't her Grannie do that??), and issue a 'tap on the hand' after a warning (infrequently). We ignore whining and find with her that works well. She's a very happy girl who knows what the boundaries are, but, of course, still wants to push them. Mum (Dad) IS the boss, and we just haven't gone down the negotiating route.
14 months? I would agree with the firm No and removal from the situation. Is there a drum that he could bang instead of the television? Alternative things to do the same thing to are quite handy. If that makes sense.
The spitting - remove the food for a while.

Calm...i agree with you on the distraction thing for the baby, and also on the grandmothers thing.....well, mum says she is soft withthem cos you cant be with your own kids......apparently thats what grandparent are supposed to do.....

Definitions of manipulative on the Web:

"skillful in influencing or controlling others to your own advantage"

I suppose it boils down to semantics, I personally do not necessarily see negative connotations in the word manipulate ..

Also finding this thread very interesting.

I have a DS aged 13 months who is into absolutely everything. I remember discussing this with a friend who has two sisters, one of whom rearranged her whole downstairs making it 100% baby friendly and the other who taught her young ones 'No' means 'No' and they mustn't touch - everything left as it is. I have tried both and the former is what has worked for me. My living room is now home to only a sofa, two chairs, bookshelf (with bottom shelves book free) and understairs storage system holding all his toys and games and a small shelving system that has a very small TV and nappy change box on it. It was a real breath of fresh air being able to leave him in 'his room' to play knowing that he would not come into any serious harm and having to constantly shout 'No' - hate it!
This morning however, he climbed onto sofa and was trying to get himself from its edge onto the shelving system to grab nappies out of the box next to TV, I told him 'No, that's dangerous, be careful' several times but with the cheekiest grin you can imagine he is persisting until mission is accomplished - I removed him from sofa, did the firm 'No' using tone and asked him to go and find his monkey (part of his alphabest train track) to divert attention but found him up on sofa again 5 minutes later! I moved the sofa further away from shelving unit in the end and he has not been back since It can be exhausting ...
I'm also expecting number two in a few weeks and don't always have the patience that i should but even though it's tiring having to lug them away from danger spots or other places I find diversion is a wonderful thing - even if it means having to squat on floor and play 'cats' for a while.

Nappy changes - Agree with everyone, give him something to hold. My DS waits till nappy is off and then legs it butt naked laughing away still covered in pooh sometimes I have to be super quick and give him a tub of cream or anything to hand to play with. Ds also does the food thing but this is because he's trying to feed himself so for a bit of peace and quiet and feet up time I give him the spoon and let him get on with it - the 10 minute clean up operation is worth the 'me' time.

Sorry if i've waffled on. Something i tend to do.

You're DS sound very familiar btw x

agre with aloha

I have never done much disciplining

he doesnt need to obey you at this age

just assume that he won't obey you and keep him out of trouble as much as possible - your life will be much easier if you just accept it.

Give him something to hold when you are changing his nappy or raisins or something
Play with him if he is banging on the tv he is probably bored
dont spit out food! dont babies just DO that?

cha, i did that with my first dc, totally babyproofed the room, but as i have 3 now and prefer them playing in the same room as me, it's not practical to totally babyproof the area...i find my room divider very useful, but i do still have to say no on a fairly regulare basis....was thinking of just playing a cd with a recording of me saying no......