Losing Control

[Binza]

Boy have I had a bad day. I'm sitting with an enormous G&T feeling like my children of 10,7 and 2 will be begging to leave home in the next day or two! I feel such an awful mother - always at them, loosing my rag about things that probably aren't that important. Then I logged on to this discussion and felt better because there are other people who feel the same way as me and probably have a lot more pressures to cope with. I have a loving, supportive husband but sometimes I feel like I'm on my own with the problems of the children.I will admit I am a bit of a control freak when it comes to them and so in order not"to loose control" I go too much the other way.
He comes across as being very laid back with them but my answer to that is I could be like that if I went out to work for 8hrs a day instead of being at home. I chose to be at home and in my heart of hearts that's what I want but it's not easy when you get a run of bad days and life just seems to be one battle after another! I will try to phone the parentline suggested and get a copy of the book on raising happier children because I don't want my children to think of me as "that woman who just shouted at us all the time".

Marina, I too had the tasty broccoli mindset with my first son. Now son number two watches eagle-eyed to see what his older bother gets served up at mealtimes and goes in hot pursuit of the plate as I carry it from the kitchen.

Older son gets fairly usual small-boy stuff -something green (usually pushed to the side of the plate until mummy hisses at him to finish it up) something golden ( fish fingers, nuggets, sausages, pizza) something white ( bread, potato). Then some fruit if I hiss again.

Toddler insists on the same, so gets suitably edited, greener version of the above. But his taste for crisps and chocolate is extremely well-developed.

I too have the demon voice. Also have the phrase "don't make Mummy come and get you" spoken slowly and firmly, when they're running around and I want them to come to me to get dressed etc. Works wonders. Maybe cause they know that if they make Mummy come and get them they'll regret it. Doesn't work for my hubbie as it turns into a chase game. I supppose it comes down to a quote I got from 'Honey I shrunk the kids'.....Daddies are for fun but Mummies mean business'.

Trying to give the kids broccoli and husband saying that it should be "fed to coos" really does not help!, they will eat it though if it is zizzed in the demonic food processor and put in soup.

I confess - son has never actually eaten broccoli unless it is carefully mashed to a pulp and 'hidden' in a casserole. And, in fact, it won't be broccoli tonight either. It will be pizza - or chicken nuggets - because I'm still in a 'can't be arsed' mode. I excelled myself at the beginning of the week so now its chill out time.

Long live the blender and God bless you Captain Bird's Eye!

Salad is a good alternative - I recently handed the grater and a couple of carrots over to my 3 and 4 year olds, they had a whale of a time and ate all the grated carrot! yes I know they might have cut themselves on the grater...

Ha Ha Tigermoth, I love your 3 food groups, green, white and gold!! You could make a fortune writing a kiddies cookbook based on that premise! I am seriously into feeding my toddler tinned ravioli and bread when i get home from work now. Its bloody quick and he loves it. I guess that's the 'gold' and 'white' part. but no green. Hmm. dare I ask what is actually in those tomatoey pasta squares?

Emmam ,who shot Phil Mitchell Snap!! - i let my son stay up so I could see who did it, but mid-Lisa speech he started trying to get my attention by throwing our CDs into the open fire (yes they do spark!). So I had to run over, pick him up and charge up the stairs to dump him in his cot so I could get downstairs to find out if drippy Lisa really did it! Why are the men always working when you need them!!

Marina, Rat, Tigermoth - going back to the present but otherwise engaged father syndrome, when did this start? I ask because my son is only 4 months and it sometimes seems that every sentence uttered by his father seems to start 'I've just got something to do in the garden/study/garage/anywhere else where there are no children needing my attention. This is not to say that he is a bad father, but that he seems to think that the more mundane aspects of parenting (ie most of it) should be taken care of by the drudgery fairy (ie me). I am going back to work full time next month, and therefore need to try and knock this behaviour on the head asap. Any suggestions?
NB I have tried the most obvious solution ie asking him to watch the baby/change nappies/try and get the baby to have a nap/feed him etc etc, and although he generally complies he sulks like mad and is terribly affronted by the implication that he is not pulling his weight!

Kathmary, I've just read your message and agree whole-heartedly with you. People who don't loose it every now and then are heading for high blood pressure in a big way. I also get around to the apology once I've calmed down and to be honest I can't wait until mine are of an age when I can explain about that wonderous thing P.M.T. My own mother insists she never suffered with it but I can remember her going off the deep end every so often and we wouldn't know what we'd done wrong. Her worst time to do it was if a car journey was imminent as her temper would go to her feet! There we would be hurtling along narrow country lanes with mum either stoney silent or yelling over her shoulder at us - TAKING HER EYES OFF THE ROAD!!!! Unfortunately I've inherited this trait.
In an effort to reduce my symptoms I've been taking St. John's Wort and would like to warn people that it doesn't agree with everyone. For the last week I have been like a snake i.e. shedding my skin! It's only on my face but it's been sore and itchy and then peeling. It's so dry I've been using a moisturiser for exzema on it. So be warned! Next stop Boots for this Starflower
stuff.

Starling, in answer to your question on the engaged father symdrome - you have my sympathy! I don't know if I can give you any great solution. My husband was a bit of a Mr Elsewhere with both of my sons until their first words and first steps.He happily admits this himself. He found my sons first small tantrums particularly interesting. Perhaps he sensed a challenge. Now he is hands-on with the eldest and things are moving in the right direction regarding the youngest. Not perfect, I'm still left with the children's chores for the majority of the weekend, but that's partly by choice since I work during the week. But my husband now looks forward to baby sitting and is a good, involved dad. So give it time, and your husband may become more fully engaged in the day-to-day life of your child.

In the meantime can you get your husband to step up his cooking and housework duties? In the early days, I often had to leave half-cooked meals simmering away to nothing while I fed or changed a crying baby. My husband had to take the cooking helm by default, otherwise there would have been no supper.

Also in my experience, husbands magically adjust to you going back to work etc. only after it happens. So when you go back to your job, cross your fingers and with luck he'll muddle through.

Yikes - my son has turned 'weird'! I served up mixed veg with dinner the other day and all he wanted to eat were the broccoli florets! When he had finished all of his, he started helping himself to ours! Then, he started to eat the carrots!!! My God - what is going on? THIS IS NOT NORMAL SURELY!!!

Thankfully, he redeemed himself this morning by asking for crisps at 7.45.

I am really miserable being back at work today after a lovely long break - I shall be checking this site regularly all day in the hope that you lot will make me laugh.

I can identify with so many of you. However my greatest concern is the realisation that i sometimes treat my four year old daughter as if she is going on ten. (i also have a two year old) When i have finished yelling at her for fighting over toys, arguing, not sharing with her sister e.t.c. i feel so guilty. I think i sometimes expect so much of her (being the oldest child) that i forget how young she really is. I bet when my two year old is four she will still be treated as the "baby" of the family and i probably won't have nearly as many expectations of her. Has anyone else ever looked back and thought they expected so much from such a young person ?

I agree completely Tireless. When my second son was born overnight my expectations for my eldest seemed to increase by at least one year in age. My younger son (nearly 2) is a little monkey and gets away with murder most of the time. I try very hard not to view the eldest in this way, but it is very difficult, and he is so tall that everyone else treats him older too. The other day a poor unsuspecting pensioner got his head bitten off when he asked my son "Why aren't you in school" .. he's only 3.5 and won't start school here until September 2002!

I'm glad I'm not the only one!!! My 2.5 yr. old daughter also has exceptionally good language, and I do expect too much of her - probably partly because her comprehension of what we say is so good. I forget that her experience of life is still small! I have to be careful as my 10 month old son is starting to look at me sometimes as if he's waiting for me to tell her off for being too rough with him, even when she's not. He's already learnt to expect that she will get into trouble when he grizzles when she's near him. I have to be careful now!

This discussion must have been started with me in mind! My 4 year old (girl - and I think it does make a difference) has been extremely difficult lately. Her dad's just started a new job, so is not around much at the moment, & she's used to him looking after her & her sister a lot of the time (God bless shiftwork!). The Health Visitor explained that her screaming, purple-in-the-face rages are probably down to her frustration at the changes going on in her world & that I should just ignore her. This makes sense to me when I am thinking rationally, but when she's screaming, throwing things, hitting her little sister (who is the most placid child in the world - 2 years old and literally 2 tantrums in her life!), I just don't know what to do. I usually get so wound up that I end up screaming. I know this doesn't help, and I feel terrible when I'm back to rational mode. I really feel sometimes that there is no way to control her - I hear myself threatening, I do try and carry out the threats, but she doesn't care. As I said, the HV says to ignore when performing & praise, praise, praise when not, but I really can't ignore shoes being thrown, sister being kicked in the face etc... The conclusion I come to when lying in bed at night is that it must be my fault - she even said to her dad once "I can't help it daddy, I'm an angry person, like Mummy"
Anyone got any suggestions on how to help her deal with her anger (& me!)

Warn the kids that you are about to lose control. I have no found that if I tell mine 'I'm getting really cross now' they will usually calm down. It's not a very good advert though, as I must be absolutely dreadful when I do lose it.
Also, don't be too hard on yourself. I found that those first 2 years with 2 kids were absolute hell. I was permanently tired (I worked & the youngest didn't sleep for more than 1.5 hrs til she was 2.5), and it didn't take me long to lose control, I think I was almost always on the verge. It does get better.
Also, I expect you are having to adjust to new routines as well, and this will make you more irritable. Try and allow yourself an extra 15 minutes to do things (esp trying to get out of the door). Someone on one of these threads has said 'a childs willingness to cooperate is in inverse proportion to the amount of time available' - too true, and there's probably nothing more designed to infuriate than being in a rush with a petulant 4 yr old.
BTW my nearly 4 yr old can throw some right wobblers at the moment. Perhaps I don't bother quite so much because she is the youngest, and I still think of her as the baby. I know I expected far more of my eldest when she was that age, and really it was quite unfair. I can now recognise that a lot of the problems with my youngest are a direct result of frustration at something, and if I can take the time to sort it out, we can stop them before they begin. (not easy I know, but time is the most valuable thing)
You don't say whether you work or not, but I expect you do, and that makes things more difficult timewise.
Anyway, sorry for rambling on, hope this helps. It sound just like me 2 years ago, but there was no mumsnet then!

Debsb, you poor thing re your youngest sleeping so little. What happened at 2.5 years to make her sleep better?

Marina, she was referred to a paediatrician for her eczma, and he gave us a very strong anti-histamine to stop her scratching. So strong it was used as a pre-med for childrens ops! It was bliss, she actually began to sleep for 7 - 8 hours at a time, she was far less hard work during the day because she (and I) were less tired, and became a much easier and happier child all round. And for all those 'anti-dopers' yes we did use it on occassions just to get some sleep, and no I don't feel in the slightest bit guilty about it - it saved the sanity of the whole family. She now sleeps for about 10 hours each night, but still wakes up about twice, not a problem when we think back! (no, we don't still use it, unless her eczma flares up v. bad).

Thanks for your advice Debsb, and I think you're right about expecting too much of the oldest and being more laid back with the youngest. You're also right about getting things done on time - it still gets me stressed sometimes if things aren't done to the timetable in my head, but I've learnt (the hard way!) that it's not worth stressing about too much. My 4 year old is very eloquent, has an answer for everything, and it is so hard not too get drawn into arguments with her, which makes everything twice as bad. That's why I know ignoring the "performance" is the best way. BUT, I still don't know how to approach the anti-social behaviour which accompanies it - if I'm ignoring her, I can't tell her off for hitting her sister, throwing things etc, but surely if I ignore that, then I'm condoning it? Also, what sort of lesson is the younger one learning - "when my sister hits me, no-one tells her off"
Does anyone have an answer to this conumndrum?

Perhaps you could tell her that she musn't hit her sister so that she knows it is wrong but then ignore any argument or tantrum resulting from the telling-off? I do not say this as an expert as I have had two children but they are so far apart in age that I don't have the same situation. Just a suggestion.

It's still depcited as being selfish if we want something away from the children. It's like because we are women we are expected to have nothing. You feel if you aren't there then you aren't putting your family first. But what child wants to spend every second with mother and a bad tempered miserable one at that? I was awful to my little boy when I was unemployed and I really regret it.

Batters, I have read Toddler Taming, but admittedly have not referred to it recently. I will get it out and have another read. My problem is that I don't know what to do (other than tell her, but she doesn't seem to care what I say) to make her realise that her behaviour is unacceptable. I shout - she shouts back, I threaten, she says she doesn't want the ... (whatever it is that she won't get). I've tried talking to her when she's calmed down, I tell her that it makes me sad when she hurts her sister, because I know she loves her. She just says "no I don't love her". Sorry, I know this site isn't just here to solve my problems, but everyone seems so wise, I'd love to hear your ideas.

Emsiewill, I can't speak from direct experience as my little boy is still too little but a friend of mine had similar problems with her son when he was 3.5 yrs old. She had two tactics, the first was to watch out for signs of a flare up and try to divert his attention before it escalated into the full on purple faced bit. Her second tactic was to do 'time out' during the rages. She would say to her son that the behaviour was not acceptable and ask him to go to his room. If he refused she would pick him up (flailing arms and all) and carry him to his room. She would tell him that she would come and get him in a while, close the door and leave him. If he tried to leave earlier she would take him back and if necessary hold the door. It has to be said that while this was going on she did remove breakable objects from the room.
The other thing she noticed was that he used to have more of these massive rages if he hadn't done enough running around and released some energy.
I was always quite shocked by the ferocity of these rages and by the level of anger and hatred that seemed to be burning inside this child. However, if it is any consolation he is fine now and is mostly a very gentle little boy. It seemed to be a phase he was going through.

I believe that children's rages (and some adults?) are a result of frustration, feeling powerless and generally feeling as if "it's not fair". Maybe one thing to try could be to offer more choices, as in, "do you want to play in the garden or indoors with your sister - you decide because she's too young to choose". Then, big sis may feel some level of responsibility which may make her feel more grown up and therefore, act more grown up.