stopping son from coming on weekend family trip

[ClarkL]

So my son has a lot of behavioral issues, nothing like ADHD, simply a pain in the rear end. Hes 11, on report at school, hes manipulative, hurts people and quite honestly is horrible. I am working hard with the school to turn this around, we have a trip to Edinburgh this weekend and he was told if he doesn't behave he isn't going. A friend has volunteered to have him. We had 2 good days last week, the calm before the storm! This weekend was bad, kicking his step Dad, screaming and shouting over homework and angry at me for talking to the neighbor on the phone for half an hour. SO I explained final warning, his teacher has said final warning, yesterday he apologized. not great behavior last night but no fights. Today I get a call from the school to say he's bullying another child and grabbed him by his neck and pushed him. I don't want him to go this weekend, his sister is very down from his bullying of her and becoming withdrawn I cant think of anything worse than him kicking off and ruining this trip...but is it really terrible to stop him from coming? Will I scare him for life and give him more reasons to be aggressive or may it be the kick he needs to realize being part of a family actually is conditional and you do not behave the way he is??

I agree with Imperial, go and have some quality time with your daughter without it being spoilt by her brother, which I'm guessing happens a lot.

You told him what would happen of his behaviour was unacceptable, it's been unacceptable so now he doesn't get to go.
At 11 years old he is absolutely capable of knowing how to behave.

He most definitely will not be scarred from not going! It might do him some good in fact, and it most definitely will be good for your DD.

Don't feel guilty OP. Hope you have a lovely weekend

Hello OP welcome to my life

I have a 13 yo son who can behave in exactly the same way. He has been tested for all manner of things and is clear. Truth is he chooses to behave badly. He will misbehave, bully his siblings and do badly at school until there is something he wants or an activity he wants to do. Cue complete turn around in his behavior and he is a model child until he gets what he behaved for.

Like you I ended up making such outlandish threats just to try and get him to behave as I was at the end of my tether. In the end I actually followed through on one of the ridiculous threats. We had planned a full day and night at a theme park, he didn't go. I left him with my parents. He hated it moaned, cried got angry but I didn't back down. His behavior can still be hit and miss but he backs down when I threaten him with punishment as he knows I will go through with it.
We have found using football ( which he loves) as a reward works too, he can play for the local team every week as long as his behavior is of a good standard, not perfect but good standard.

My advice would be to go away without him. On your return if you feel seeking professional help is needed then do so.

Good luck.

Go - and enjoy your peaceful time. Your DD deserves some 'nice' time too, without the stresses and strains a child like this causes the rest of the family.

DC1 was very similar in lots of ways - he's become a lot better as he's got older, but goodness, it was very very tough. We got support from the child psychologists and CAMHS which did help, and the school were brilliant - but it was really hard. I've asked him about it, now that he's 18 and asked him why he did what he did - he says he honestly doesn't know, just that he was overcome by an absolute rage over and over again. He regrets his behaviour, but says that it was so sudden and extreme that he really didn't know how to control it. I would really suggest trying to get some additional support for him - be aware that the waiting list for CAMHS is very long, so the sooner the better.

If OP's son is trying to come to terms with a lack of contact with his father or knowledge relating to his father's MH difficulties then excluding him from family events would add to that distress.

If OP's son is trying to come to terms with a lack of contact with his father or knowledge relating to his father's MH difficulties then excluding him from family events would add to that distress

And what about the sister? Or mum? Don't they deserve a break, a nice stress free time?
At 11 he is plenty old enough to understand his behavior has consequences.

I spent a year letting my sons bad behavior dictate our lives. His siblings didn't thank me for it.

"At 11 years old he is absolutely capable of knowing how to behave"

Knowing how to behave and being able to behave are two separate things.
You're also assuming that the boy has no additional needs (again, they may be mental health, neuro or general background).

If he was capable of behaving, he would be.

I would follow through otherwise your word means nothing and I think your DD could do with some bully free time.

I would also continue to push for referral to ensure that there aren't underlying issues.

If the truth is that you feel sad that he isn't coming/regret the threat you can even tell him that but I would still carry it through. I think a lack of boundaries (such as not sticking to your word) can escalate their insecurities and make things harder for them in the long run.

Thank you all for your responses. He has had quite a lot of change, we moved just over a year ago, so new primary school for year 6 then starting year 7 this September. He did see his Dad up until about 5 months ago, I had a few concerns with how they were both coming back from their Dads but no evidence that they weren't safe and the children would always tell me things were fine. I found out about the overdose from the childrens Grandad (I still get on with them and they see the Grandchildren) I spoke to the kids we watched the black dog videos on youtube and I explained Dad was too sad and until he's better they will be staying with me, they do not know he took an overdose. Since then they asked about the stinging nettles in their Dads bath which turned out to be cannabis plants. They write to their Dad but he rarely writes back and both have said they don't want anything to do with him, I still try and encourage them to write because whilst their Dad is ill (even if its partly self inflicted through cannabis misuse) he may in time get help and get better. My son is very angry towards his Dad, the school are fully aware of this but I cannot allow him to hurt people physically because he is emotionally upset. We continually say we know its upsetting, we are all hurting, but he cannot hurt others and behave this way. I approached counseling services and the GP who said they cant help him because his Dad who has joint parental rights must also sign to say he can receive help, so right now it's me and the school.
He knows hes doing wrong, he has 'safe' people to talk to, and he wont. He wont accept help so I am left dealing with his behaviour

stan that's why I suggested sister went with stepdad. Sure, its not ideal and I imagine OP is desperate for a break, but it felt like a reasonable compromise given the situation.

I don't think mum should give up her break. From my own experience I know I was better at dealing with my son once I had a break from him. In fact he was better for the time away from me too.

sofia those symptoms don't sound like bi polar at all, don't go throwing diagnoses like that around.

Sorry just to add, I do appreciate others sharing their experiences. It is nice to know I am not the first, or last parent to feel this way.
I do think we will go without him, get a rest, then come back hopefully able to deal with him a little more calmly.
His school genuinely have been amazing and his form tutor is at risk of being kidnapped and brought home as so far she is the only one he listens to. Has anyone had experience of medical professionals refusing to help without joint parental consent?

op i dont think you can leave him .1 it would not be fair on your friend to be left with him in a mood .2 if he is mentally ill then he is ill you would,nt just leave him if he had a physical illness .it may be worth asking your doctor about camhs .SOFIA there is certainly not any good in blaming it on his father .a doctor once told my hubby that my youngest has autism because it runs in the genes my hubby got mental illness cant tell you how this affected my hubby was not in the least bit helpful

Btw OP I think you should definitely go with out your son. Your daughter sounds like she needs putting first for a weekend and to have a ice time without stressing about your son.

If the strategies you are using aren't improving things, have a look at PDA strategies (even if you don't think that applies to him), it's just a different way to do things that can often help you to calm things down and build up a normal relationship again.
I'll link to a website in a minute.

If you have a browse on this website you may find something that might help.

This really is not normal behaviour for an 11 year old and there is either an emotional or psychological reason behind it. I would definitely be pushing for more support because if he is like this at 11 he will be unmanageable later on.

I am not sure what I would do about the weekend. I think making the threat was probably foolish with hindsight we have all done it because that creates a need to follow through. It is a big exclusion though for a child who for some reason sounds like he is already pushing himself out.

Can you apply to amend the joint parental res?

You've all got so much going on and five months is still so recent. I think if you go without your son, you can talk it through with him in terms of needing to stick to the boundaries that you laid down and try and re-frame it so it feels less punitive.

In terms of getting support, I would badger the GP and maybe emphasise the risk to other pupils and our daughter.

If it's just a signature that's required, can't you just forge it?

Umbongo actually they do. It's exactly what my ds was doing the year before he was diagnosed with severe bipolar.

And frankly, I wish that someone had said to me, what I am saying to the OP. My ds and our family could have been saved a lot of pain if I had gotten him help a year or two sooner.

aprilanne it is pretty commonly accepted in the medical and scientific community that mental illness (and drug addiction) is genetic. That of course doesn't mean that every child of a mentally ill parent will be mentally ill themselves, but it does mean that they are at high risk and should be treated as such. No different than breast cancer or heart disease.
And general thought is that autism has some sort of genetic component as well (combined with environmental factors).

sofia maybe for you. I am bi polar myself and those are not symptoms that I ever experienced. Still not appropriate to be throwing around diagnoses.

Maybe Young Minds would be a useful organisation to contact. They also have some specific advice about anger and agression.