And baby makes four...

[GeorginaA]

I know it's only been half a day, but I really want to do better tomorrow. I've managed to do and say all the wrong things to ds1 in respect to the newborn, to the point where he stormed upstairs to bed telling daddy "I want to be small".

A selection of what I've said today:

"be gentle... mind his eyes.... no don't stroke him now, it's distracting I want him to feed.... keep the noise down... no don't throw your toys around"

I really thought it would be the other way around - that I wouldn't bond with the baby and would see him as an irritation in respect to my firstborn darling. Ds1 comes home and he looks so HUGE and clumsy (did my s-i-l give him growth hormone while he was away?!) and I've done all the wrong things without thinking about it.

Ideas for a new start tomorrow? How did everyone else cope with introducing the second?

Oh, GA, I so understand how you feel! I was exactly the same. (The thing that struck me the most about dd1 was the enormous bottom when it had to have a nappy applied at bedtime - newborns' bottoms are so tiny!)

I was crap at it myself but I think you need to bite your tongue at almost everything the older one does, short of causing bloodshed. However big and rough they seem I think you have to try to assume goodwill...good luck!

(sympathetic smilie)

DS1 was 2 and 1 week when I bought DS2 home. DS1 looked HUGE and so much older in the 24 hours since we last saw him and I did feel a pang of loss and think "what have we done to him?" when I thought about how we'd turned him into a Big Brother.

Give him a job - fetching the nappies/wipes? Read to him whilst you feed DS2 (you'll get the hang of this) or get him a special "feeding toy" he can only play with when you're feeding (maybe give it to him from DS2?). Give him some quality time when DS2 is fed and asleep.

Have you given him the opportunity to hold his brother? DS1 was SO excited when we let him do this and we tried to let him whenever he asked provided DS2 was not sleeping. It meant that he knew he was allowed to touch him and he never really tried to do it in a sneaky manner when we weren't looking.

Remember that DS2 won't notice if he gets less attention than DS1. My DS2 doesn't know that I never left DS1 crying or that I used to watch DS1 sleep during the day or that I would never have let a 2 year old within sneezing distance of DS1.

You'll work out the solution for you, don't worry.

Lol at the growth hormones!! I remember that, and thinking how grubby the older one was!

How old is ds1? My three are four years apart each, and get on really well. I think it's partly their personalities, but fwiw, these are some things that helped:

Refer to 'your baby' a lot (ie. ds1's baby) and 'your brother' ;
Use 'we' as much as possible, eg. 'we want him to go to sleep now';
Let him hold the baby (sitting crosslegged on a bed);
Tell him how glad you are to have a big child to talk to 'cos the baby can't talk at all;
Point out endlessly how the baby can't have icecream/biscuits/cake, and can only drink boring milk;
Keep telling him how lucky the baby is to have such a wonderful/kind/sensible brother;
Expect negative feelings from ds1 and anticipate them. Somehow if you say 'Are you feeling jealous of the baby?' they find it quite a relief that you've put it into words.

I'm sure others will have lots of good ideas. It's very early days -- congratulations and it will be fine!

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One tip I remember is to prime visitors to make a fuss of your Precious First Born (PFB) when they arrive and ask the PFB to show them their new sibling (hereafter to be known as the Neglected Subsequent Child or NSC)

oh I think we've all been there!!!
all I can say is realy really try to not make your first born grow up too quickly (because you have another baby to care for.)
Think I made that big mistake - didn't baby my dd(1) enough when ds(2) came along- she was only 2 1/2 and I started treating her like mummy's helper- when really she was just a little toddler who had her own needs...
make sure you have your own special time with number 1 away from number 2...It's hard being a first born... (we make our mistakes on that one!!)
CONGRATULATIONS BTW!!!!!

Thank you for all these suggestions. It's been a little easier today, although ds1 has been playing up somewhat, throwing toys around which he wouldn't normally do - dh and I are shattered because ds2 was up most of the night ... ugh.

ds1 is very keen to cuddle the baby lots... it's really hard though because ds2 is either asleep or eating at the moment - and highly distractable during feeds (so want to put ds1 off handling him then) but neither do I want him woken up regularly by a rough handed sibling! I need to find a compromise there I think...

Daddy's doing most of the work at the moment while on paternity leave, when I get the chance I'll talk to him about finding some special jobs for ds1 to do at nappy times or something. Good idea. Tried the reading to him at the same time as feeding earlier, but obviously need to find the knack with keeping baby on breast, cuddling three-year-old and turning book pages at the same time I think I need another three pairs of arms...

Particularly like the "we" statement idea - thanks frogs, makes a lot of sense. I find it hard to voice the negative statements though, in case I've misunderstood and end up putting bad feelings into his mind that hadn't occurred to him!!

I love the PFB and NSC monikers, Soupy

We've been really lucky with dd, and it is more luck than judgement believe me, but things that seem to have helped are:

Reverting to babyhood occasionally - she gets caried up the stairs to bed now (great for my scar!) and her dummy, previously used at bedtimes only, is in fairly constant use.

She "helps" to change nappies - she takes first look to see if ds has "done a poo" - also loves to tell us that "babin(as close as she can get to Sebastian) done a fart"

I've encouraged her to tickle his toes, I figure babies toes are quite hard to break so it doesn't matter if she's a bit rough at that end. and it stops her from trying to poke eyes or fontanelle.

I've staggered the GF routines (on coloured spreadsheets of course), so ds sleeps 12-2.30 at the moment, and dd (thank god she still has a nap) from 1-3, so the 2.30 feed at least is undisturbed. At bedtime dd has her bath with dh at 7 whilst I feed and settle ds, then once he's down at 7.30 it's time for dd to go to bed.

Hope that helps, but one day won't have screwed up your ds1 for good, so STOP WORRYING

Georgina, did you forget to pick up your extra set of arms at your last antenatal check? I thought they were given out as standard. Have a word with your midwife, she may have a spare set hanging around.

GA - all the things you said to ds1 yesterday sound reasonable to me. I find I am saying the same kind of stuff to my firstborn (who is 4 and a half). I am also making a special effort to give positive comments too though - like when he fetches nappies, or strokes her head gently, I tell dd how lucky she is to have such a lovely big brother (obviously within earshot of ds).

but but but ... I'm a professional worrier!!!

Yes, I think life will be easier when ds2 has some sort of routine. As he's so sicky at the moment I don't like to be out of the room he's in so hopefully when that's settled down and he has clear nap times in his room or at least while we're out then it'll be easier for ds1 to get some attention.

I just want to head any problems off at the pass really... It's really suprised me how protective I feel of this baby - I was sure I was going to end up feeling resentful of the time it took away from ds1, and am feeling not a little guilty about it.

Realise that I have just repeated what frogs said, but it works for our family too!

(I mean the nap times when he's out and about, rather than put him in his room then go out!!!!!)

SoupDragon - I had to fight to get my Bounty pack this time! (I didn't go to the postnatal ward as I was a six hour discharge) Let alone my spare set of arms. I was robbed!!

georginaA I used to put loads of cushions on ds knees prop book up on that then ask him to turn pages when feeding dd, also had a special cuddle at this time !! Know what you are going through it is so hard but you have such a spot on attitude and are getting such good advice, makes me want to turn back time so I can do it all over again!

I was just an unorganised mess with my second and walked round in a daze. Dont worry georgina

And congratulations btw, I must have missed it

Gosh these posts bring back some memories ... esp Janh's description of changing nappies.

I think I was certainly guilty of suddenly having high expectations of ds1, because he was so much older. (He was only 22 months!)

Loads of good advice here - hope it helps you.

GeorginaA I rememebr this time well, and with haveing a c-section officially I wasn't allowed to pick up dd1!! However I did.

Perhaps it is slightly different with girls and they are not as rough naturally, however I let dd1 hold her, stoke her, be normal as DD2 would have to get used to it. Yes she might have been a little 'enthusiatic' but never deliberately, she used to stroke her head and watch while DD2 fed. In fact that was the best time, we all used to cuddle up and feed DD2 while DD1 stroked her head. But these are my memories from 3 yrs ago and I am sure I told off DD1 loads. Actually I seem to remember dd2 was barely picked up during her first weeks except for feeding as dd1 was demanding. Didn't seem to harm her much, dd2 is now the cuddly type.

My only peice of advice is that now you have 2 you are going to have to try to stop worrying. You will just make yourself ill Good luck, it can get better.

forgot to add -think its important to let all guilt feeings bounce off you at the mo, or just accept and acknowledge them and turn your mind to something else (if you can - know its hard. I spent so much time feeling guilty about older and new childs lack of attention, swung from feeling heartbroken about one to the other, I almost forgot to enjoy it all and it turned me into a nervous wreck. You sound a bit more in control and level headed though!

Wow, more great advice, thank you Actually, it's reassuring just knowing that other people have lived through it

midden: will try the cushion thing. Getting ds1 to turn the pages - doh, why didn't I think of that?!! I am so stupid sometimes. Completely miss the obvious. Not sure about the controlled and level headed ... think I just give a good impression in text rather than in person

fio2 - you missed it? when I managed to post 9 times due to tiredness and bad connection?! I'm impressed

Thanks again all.

GA .... More sympathetic smilies!

I had a terrible time with DS when DD was born ... not least because I felt sooooo guilty that I had brought this little bundle into the world which had ruined his life ... I spent a few evening weeping by DS' sleeping form whispering apologies into his ear for being so horrible to him!
DD is 3 months now and although everything has settled down I still have to be careful about what I say to DS so as not to make him resentful towards the baby.
When I go to feed or change the baby I tell DS and make sure he knows that if he needs me I can't just drop everything and that he will have to wait until I have finished (I have to explain daily that DD can't be left on her changing mat while I help him draw a Tyrannasaurus for example) ...
Of course as soon as DD has finished her feed or her nappy change the poor thing is usually dumped under her babygym as I promised DS I would do 'whatever' ... so we very rarely get the chance to indulge in mummy/baby cuddles ...
It is all very demanding and very tiring but my main thing is that DS does not resent his sister ....
I like Frogs' post particularly ... very good advice ....

Hi there,

Personally I think introducing number two is the hardest thing about this parenting lark. So I wanted to say - first you have my sympathy; second - you will get through it; third - agree with someone else who said you shouldn't feel guilty.

There are some good tips here the only ones I'd add are - when you want to say "no" or "don't do that" try to make a positive suggestion instead, that will have the same effect of stopping him - I thought the one about the special baby-stroking with the back of your finger was a fab idea; instead of "don't throw toys" try "would you like to choose a toy for your brother" (quite amusing sometimes to see what a two year old thinks a 0-year old would like!), asking if he'll get you a muslin/nappy/wipes/book for you to read to him instead of don't stroke him now.

Everyone feels for PFB (love that!) when they say things like they want to be small - my PFB took one look at NSC and burst into tears and said "I don't like baby" - but it's only natural and he will get over it - you're giving him a sibling which is a real bonus in his life. Good luck.

I really related to your post midden where you said you swung from feeling guilty about one to feeling guilty about the other - I do too. Dd is 8 weeks old tomorrow and ds is almost 2.5 - he is angry about dd and will be "violent" towards her (aims feet and hands at her and has scratched her without really meaning to) but it's normally an escalation - we tell him not to be so heavy handed with her eg. when he leans his head heavily on her head and he then goes slightly berserk - we get angry etc.. etc... With no adult around I don't think he would think to hit or kick her at all - it's all to get a reaction from us (not that we could EVER leave them in the same room together without us being around - scary thought).
I think he is gradually getting used to the idea that he has to "share" time with us - thank you for this thread because I think we were in danger of becoming too negative towards him over aspects of his behaviour (he has also got naughtier in general) which are simply reactions to the big change in his life. It's hard though because I think even without a little sister he would be going through this naughtier phase, so having a little sister seems also to coincide with your parents being harder on you than they were when you were an innocent baby / small toddler.

Well that should teach me not to be so smug....
After my post yesterday saying dd was being brilliant, she decided to see if she could get away with standing (yes standing) on ds. Fortunately I managed to grab her before she'd put any weight on the fott that was resting on his rib, but I then proceeded to ignore all the advice on here (including my own) and yell at her, which caused floods of tears. Oh well she's seems to have forgiven me today...

Loads of sympathy from me too. I also had a bad time with my ds when my dd arrived. I agree with Arabella - ds saw a very different side to me after dd was born - I was a lot less patient, more snappy, less tolerant, more preoccupied, lost my temper with him (had never done that before)- and this combined with the other changes a sibling brings is very disorientating. His behaviour was testing my affection for him. It took a while to realise this but when I did it really made me stop and think about how I was behaving and how that affected his behaviour too.

On the positive side, 18 months on from dds arrival they are good friends - they go to nursery two days a week and at parents evening this week all the staff weer commenting on how sweet they are together and how loving - when I am not there!