problems being a full time dad

[fulltimedad1]

I'm a full time dad to my 18 month old ds and wondered if anyone else had noticed the victorian style ideas society still seems to have to this. Me and wife started out with me working full time and her being the full time parent as I was the higher earner. Unfortunately my wife hit some major walls with post natal depression and the best way we found for her to get better was for her to be back in the work atmosphere and for me to stay home with ds. This works absolutely fantastically for us, wife is a million times happier being surrounded by people all day and loves the reaction she gets from ds when she gets I'm from works and I love all the quality time and interaction I able to have with ds that most father's miss out on. The problem I find is with people outside of our little bubble. People will ask "what do you do for work" to which I would reply " I'm a full time parent" the reaction is then usually a look down the nose and a off the cuff comment of oh so you don't work. When a woman says she doesn't work as she is a full time mum this seems to be generally so much more accepted. When we go to play groups I find we aren't engaged very much at all by other mums. It's very difficult to set up play dates as most husbands don't want a strange man at home spending time with his wife. Even family members have been less than supportive. I don't know why in the 21st century we are still living by these vitorian standards. Anyone else had any experience of this

It might be because you're referring to yourself as a full time parent. You are a stay at home Dad. You would be a full time parent regardless of if you were working or not.

It's very difficult to set up play dates as most husbands don't want a strange man at home spending time with his wife.

Are you sure that's the reason? I'm not sure I would want to spend time with you, but not because my husband would forbid it.

I'm also slightly wary of people, male or female, who describe themselves as 'a full time parent'.

I think your just playing with words. I wouldn't go up to some stranger and say hi I'm a "full time parent" want a play date! I don't nessacerrily use those words and do frequently use the term stay at home dad and get exactly the same reaction as if I describe myself as a full time parent. I understand your point that both parents are full time parents regardless of weather one has another job or not but to say you wouldn't want to spend time with someone for rendering to themselves as such is in my opinion very petty and a little narrow minded. My wife wouldn't call herself a full time parent if someone asked her what she did for a job but that has nothing to do with the type of parent she is and equally she would have referred to herself as full time parent just as much as stay at home mum when she wasn't back at work and I would have been appalled if someone had treated her self less than favourably simply for using this everyday turn of phrase

Also I have actually been given the husband / partner excuse a couple of times.

if i am to be honest its probably because its still not the norm out of 100 stay at home parents i bet maybe 2 might be men and some people especially other men think its wierd .my hubby would never have stayed in the house to watch our 3 sons .he adores them but full time no way .he was happy to run back to work after his weeks leave when they were born .but we did have a man come to our toddler group and we always included him .nights out / shows/ the cinema i would never have thought god you cant come to my house for coffee because your a man thats hurtful i agree

People are stuck in the 50's, OP i'm afraid its as simple as that. DH and I share the childcare 50/50 and I get so many comments "aren't you lucky, my DH would never do that" etc etc... nobody ever tells him that HE is lucky that I do half so he can work part time as well!

I have to I hate when people say aren't you lucky having a husband who would do that for you. It again adds further weight to the argument that people see it as something different to a stay at home mum. There should be no difference and the number of stay home dads is on the rise recent studies show as much as 16 percent of stay home parents are male now

I think it's great that you and your wife found a way to make you all happy. No one is entitled to judge your family on the choices you both have made to make family life work. Maybe these people are just jealous cause there other halfs don't do much. There are lots of stay at home dads, maybe try to find a club just for dads.

As far as the small talk "what do you do?" Question - I think you'll find mums who don't work find that answer stops the convo too. It's an attempt at a conversation opener. If the person doesn't want to talk about children then it's obviously going to hit a dead end.

Play dates are a different issue. In my city there's a group called "dads rock" which is good for meeting others in a similar situation. Did your wife do nct? Have you met any couples this way? Can your wife introduce you to other couples where she knows the mum? The men I know I'd do play dates with were from ante natal classes - it can be easier if both parents know both of the other couple.

Our local sure start centre has groups especially for Dads and their kids, maybe go along to one of those? You might meet other SAHDs.

I know a couple of SAHDs and I'd never dream of looking down my nose at them (speaking as a former SAHM). Of course it's just as hard work for them as it was for me!

However, I do agree with you about play dates. I've found it a bit weird to text a man and ask him to bring his child over to play. I know it shouldn't be, but it is. I think the solution is to make it a group thing - invite more than one other child and parent at the same time (and make it clear you're doing so) so you avoid the awkwardness of it seeming too 'couply'. Or you could arrange to meet in a crowded place - the park or soft play.

Interesting OP, I'm a SAHD too and I kind of get where you're coming from - but part of me thinks that my fears about how people would treat me were worse than the reality.

I think it depends a bit on the area you live too. Dare I say it, but I think a more liberal, metropolitan part of the country will be much more accepting of SAHDs than a more conservative "traditional" area.

We are still a tiny minority at playgroups and the like, but I think things are slowly changing for the better and society is becoming more accepting of dads being the caregivers. But since its the women who give birth and so are more likely to stay at home initially, I wonder if we'll always be in the minority.

It does sound hard..and yes I alao might find it a little strange having a man I don't know well to come round...but honestly that would not stop me meeting in park etc.

One thing that might help you....is to try and remember that many many women also find it hard to make friends at playgroups. I have been a mum for 3 years now...working part time ...and I have never really found a friend that way . I don't know why I just never enjoyed playgroups. ..found them a bit lonely. ..

I had much better success by connecting with old friends or friends of friends. ..and by going to groups with an activity like music or swimming. ..and yes I bet there are dad's groups have you asked your see start ? Or on your local Facebook pages ?

I agree posters above are being picky about your words ....

The "what do you do" question is definitely a conversation opener, and you could just try answering it differently. I don't think there's any harm in saying something like "well, by training I'm an xxxxx but currently I'm a stay at home dad". Then people have the option to ask you more about either your previous job or your current situation. ????I haven't witnessed any negative behaviour towards men that went to the activities that I went to. I would invite a dad round for a play date if I knew him fairly well, although I wouldn't bother with play dates for a young baby. I would definitely invite a dad out to a group activity eg going to soft play or similar. ????I do think that sometimes, when you're talking about very young babies, women are sometimes looking for other women to discuss issues around feeding, physical birth recovery etc. It's unavoidable that men won't have experienced that directly themselves, and some women won't be comfortable talking to men about things like that anyway.

I think it's great what you are doing. I think people might be kind of rude about it because they don't know the full story. I'm a stay at home mom and nobody really cares. I think people expect the guy to be the breadwinner still and if you say "I'm a stay at home dad" they might get the wrong idea like you don't want to work and are using the baby as an excuse (I don't think that but people can be judgemental). I think you should tell them "I am a stay at home dad because my wife works all day. She had postpartum depression and this works better for us." Just add that bit of info so people don't assume weird things.

Hi Dude,

Well done you! Why should they get all the fun & reward? :0)

Wife and I both work 4 days each so parenting 50/50. She'ed argue she does more but then she would. That said she probably does. House is a disaster by the time she gets home ;0) !!

I find the reception at events is varied. Some places you go the other mums wouldn't look you in the eye, at others they think you walk on water.

Try engaging 2 or more in conversation and then invite them both back for a play at the same time. Works for me.

Good luck,
"Scarth Vader!!"

My DH did it for a while. It didn't really suit us as a family and so he went back to work, but it's an entirely valid choice. (Though I would caution a man against becoming financially dependant on another adult just as I would caution a woman, and I would urge you to make adequate pension provision for yourself etc!).

I'm afraid I would be a bit if you told me that you were a "full-time parent", but that would have nothing to do with your gender, I just dislike that phrase.

hi OP! My husband did 6 months pat leave after 1 took 6months mat leave after the birth of our first child. He also found it a bit of a struggle with people's attitudes but as a PP mentioned, some of that might be because he was expecting resistance. He did say he felt slightly excluded/vulnerable in play groups being the only man (Although that did mean he has sympathy at work being the only woman in a room full of men!) He now works part-time and I work full-time and he generally does stuff on his own with our son on his days off rather than trying to meet others. it means he has more quality time with him I guess and he sometimes meets other male friends with kids who work full time at the weekend instead. I agree the views of some are very old fashioned and equally I get loads of people asking me whether i'll be working part-time once the new baby arrives etc as if I should be and I'm a bad mum for not doing so (again maybe some of this in my head). It works far better for us as a family for my husband to be the main carer and we are really happy with our arrangement. I think it will become more normal over time. We also get annoyed with grandparents who only ask me about routine/norms for the baby - my husband spends more time with him so ask him! Even if we're in the same room they assume that I'm the only one who will know!

Anyway, I hope it gets easier over time!

I also think it is wonderful that you and your wife have arranged things so that they work for everyone. Sadly it is not the norm for the father to do more of the child care, so negative attitudes towards your arrangement will continue to be something you hear. By being a stay at home dad you will be part of the change in attitude, however slow coming that might be.

When I was a stay at home mum for 4 years, I did not receive the positive comments that you presume SAHM's get over SAHDs, especially not among my peers. I also did not make cosy friendships with other mothers at toddler groups and did not go to anyone else's house or have them to my house. At best I had acquaintances to chat to at various activities, and, I would just as happily chat to a dad at an activity as a mum or grandmother or child minder.

Perhaps try going to some different types of activity. Group activities that you pay up front for and see the same people every week are better at leading to acquaintances/friends. e.g. swimming lessons, music group, tumble tots. Or look in different places for dads out with their children during the working week, parks for example. I'd be surprised if you didn't find one other man who is a stay at home or partial stay at home dad.

I think you have to get on with it and know that you are doing what you think is best for your family. The SAHDs I have known have been unapologetic about their situation and pretty strong in their conviction for equality.

My DH has been the main carer for our DS for some time now, although DS has just started preschool/childminder 3 times a week. But until that it was just DS and DH. And his experience has been exactly the same as yours. Constant judgement from every corner. He has been a brilliant SAHP, such a close bond with DS. And yet even his own parents seem really disappointed with him.

It is unbelievable how many people just expect that the mother stays at home and father goes to work. Or both parents go to work.

Also very lonely, no playdates, none of the mothers really talk to him at toddler groups, no chitchat at playgrounds, strange older ladies constantly undermining his parenting...Most of the support he has is from his childfree male friends.

In my area a dad started a group for sat-at-home dads. I don't know how successful it was as I'm a mum & my kids were older then (at school), but it's a great idea - I live in a very family orientated neighbourhood so there were always dads about with their kids. I was quite friendly with one from playgroup - he worked shifts so was around in the day a lot & his wife wasn't!! I met her a couple of times, but it was always him taking his daughter out & about. He was a pleasant, interesting guy - we never had a play date per se but he brought his daughter to parties or we'd see him in the park & chat - less formal than going round to someone's house.

Stay at home, not sat!!

When a woman says she doesn't work as she is a full time mum this seems to be generally so much more accepted.

Are you sure about that? I have been a SAHM for 20 years now. Obviously originally I had babies to care for and that was clearly 'acceptable to society' but gradually the acceptance slipped away as the children became school age, then junior school age, and now that they are all at secondary or higher, I find myself completely ostracised from society as a whole.

I can't say it doesn't bother me, but I try not to think about other people's opinions too much. I suggest you do the same.

I'm a childminder and I also get the look down the nose, and about 90% of the time the usual comment 'oh dear, I could never do that job', and often 'that's my nightmare job' or 'I can't believe you are changing babies' nappies all day', and my favourite 'that must be so boring, speaking baby language all day', etc etc etc. It's demoralising especially as I love what I do, I attach great value to what I do. I often say to my own children that people give me the most precious thing in their life to look after and they trust me to do it well. It's a real shame that mums and dads who stay at home to look after their children feel judged, but the reality is that even people who make this a career choice also get judged. Shame really.

However, you do what you see fit for you and your family, and just don't pay attention to what others think of you or your choices

My DH was a SAHD when it was even more of an unusual set up. I can honestly say the only person who was negative was my paternal grandmother who came from an era and background where this would have very unusual!

If your DS was very little when you started, bear in mind that a lot of mothers meeting up in the first few months are still talking about birth and post partum physical issues - they may not care to have a man involved in these conversations. My DH was always careful to bear this in mind.

It took a bit of time for people to start inviting him to stuff (this suited him as he is an introvert) and he found that he made friends with people very similar to him - so no different from friendships in every day life. As our DC got older we did notice some people were reluctant for their DC to come to sleepovers if there was only a dad present, which was a bit insulting to DH.

On the whole though, he was recognised as a brilliant parent, he enjoyed it very much and DC bridge a lot of gaps. The pinnacle of his SAHD days was when he was asked advice on breastfeeding

Agree, do not say "full time parent" and be respectful that there are areas of becoming a parent that are specific to mothers/women. Otherwise treat situations as you would in any social gathering.

I actually seemed to get more annoying comments than DH did, it was almost as though I had some exotic pet which was doing me a favour. I strongly believe we will only advance equality for women when men really properly share responsibility for childcare and domestic duties.

I don't think it's because you are a stay at home dad, but maybe a stay at home parent in general. I'm a stay at home mum and I think that when people ask what you do, they feel a bit awkward when you tell them you aren't currently working. They maybe feel they've asked the wrong question or something? I have been at home with the kids for nearly four years now and even though it was my choice, I have had to work through my own hang- ups about my situation. For a long time I thought other people must be judging me and thinking I was lazy or entitled not to work so would justify why i had chosen to stay at home to anyone who would listen. Really though it's like every other parenting choice we ever make: it's hugely important to us and other people don't actually give it much thought.

Re the play dates - how old is your son? My eldest is nearly 4 and we are only now getting properly into play dates because she's only just old enough to want to go on these or ask people over. Any other socialising is done with kids of my friends because I want to spend time with my mates or at groups and classes.