Potty Training

[Hmonty]

Thought I'd share some good news on the potty training front. Having read some of the discussions on this web site we invested in the Gina Ford Confident child book and followed her potty training suggestions. She is very prescriptive so we didn't follow everything exactly to the letter but close enough (for instance my son just wasn't interested in the star chart so we stopped that after a couple of days)- and it worked! After a couple of days my 2.5 year old was dry and clean all day with only the odd accident. By the end of the first week we had no accidents and by the end of the second we he was doing all the asking for the toilet for himself...and we haven't looked back.

We started things off one weekend and then passed all the instructions over to the nursery and childminder. (Slight hick up with the childminder as she didn't follow our instructions and so had lots of wet trousers....but don't get me started on that moan!). Otherwise all went very smoothly.
I'd definitely recommend her method in this area.

At the risk of attracting some Gina Ford debate here (WHICH I AM NOT LOOKING FORWARD TO!)... have you read what she wrote on this topic in her second book. I found it very useful but as I have given the book to a friend I can't really help. However I think this is a topic she has covered in the Q&As on this site.
My son is being potty trained. He is fine when he runs around with a bare bottom ... he always goes on his own on the potty but not when he is wearing pants... so that's my current challenge.
I'd say : can your son sit for a few minutes on the potty and maybe you can read books to him while he is sitting ?
Is he familiar with what you do on the toilet ?
You seem to say that he can say poo... so he must recognise it...
The first sign that things are going in the right direction (in my opnion) is when they start showing some bladder/bowel control. For example my son will not pee or poo until lunchtime but if he wears a nappy, it is wet by 10AM so to me he does control his bladder (to a certain extent) when in pants. His problem seems that he thinks that if he is wearing something on his bottom he can do in it.... I am trying to teach him otherwise... It's a challenge !!!

I think I'd definitely leave the potty out - ours sat in a corner for a few months until interest started to pick up. We read books about potty training and watched a video, but we didn't press him into using the potty. One day we just found he started to try out it for size and we went from there. Then suddenly the whole thing took off. We found it helped that over the weekend we actively first tried we let our ds run around with no trousers or pants on, it was then much easier for him to get on it without any accidents. At the end of the weekend we got him into a pair of pants and the following day we got him to wear trousers - however, when we took him to his childminders we took his trousers off again so he was unhindered. After a week he was left dressed as normal and bladder control just got better and better.

If there is no interest whatsoever I'd forget about actively trying for a while - however I don't think it hurts to have the potty around and mention it every once in a while.

Eulalia, we are at about the same stage as you. We are, or have been trying, the slow familiarisation approach and so far so good. We have had a potty sitting on our bathroom floor for months now. (DS is 26 months old). When he is not wearing a nappy, in the morning and before bedtime, he happily uses the potty. When he does use it we make him feel very clever and we have a little performance about pouring the wee away, waving goodbye to it & flushing the loo. We also always tell him if we are going for a "peepee". It sounds really sad, but it means he is very familiar with the idea and that the bathroom is where people go to do peepees.
We are going to go for the pants option after Christmas, which should give us 4 months to try and get it sorted before Baby Two pops along.
If you can bear it, I would leave the potty out and just let your son get really familiar with it.

We had a few problems training our DD, in that she could hold on for hours, sometimes until 3 or 4 in the afternoon - wish I had that capacity still, lol! Anyway, I solved the problem by giving her lots of water to drink, which filled her bladder and gave her more of a sensation to recognise. It did the trick and she's been so reliable since. I think GF has some good ideas about potty training. I especially liked her idea of a chart on which you mark off the number of accidents against the number of potty successes. If the one isn't decreasing and the other increasing after a few days, then maybe the time isn't right and you can try again later. I think she's a bit optimistic in saying that most children are ready for PT between 18mths and 2 yrs - although according to my mum I was myself trained at around 10 months, ha ha!!

I've not read Gina Ford. I am a bit wary of these types of books. I'd rather get advice from the horse's mouth on these kind of boards.

Potty training is on hold just now as my son has a horrible cold. He did use the potty once about 2 months ago but we were going on holiday and felt it wasn't worth pursuing it. I wonder now if we should have taken the potty with us and we have missed our opportunity. Maybe it was just a one-off fluke. I think over Christmas I'll leave the potty handy just in case but not push it and that still leaves a few months before baby comes. I can then decide whether to really go for it then or wait.

That is a good idea to let him watch the video too as he is old enough to understand.

My sister was trained day and night by 18 months - in those days they were put on the pot as soon as they could sit up. In some ways it was good as it got them ready, and I feel some kids could be trained much younger. However for those not ready it was probably quite traumatic trying to control their bladders and I am sure it caused them some problems with guilt, shame and not pleasing parents. It is just trying to find a balance between forcing them when they are not ready and allowing them total freedom to perhaps be silly about the whole thing.

Fair enough Eulalia..... don't buy the book but I have followed the advice and it worked for me (this horse's mouth!). I am currently potty training my 24 months old son and he is 95% there (but I am not trying nights yet). He is doing very well so I thought I'd share GF's point of view anyway.... if you don't want to read, look away now !! ;-)

To help you determine whether he is capable of being potty trained I have listed several important signs that is ready:

• His nappy is frequently dry when you get him up from his lunch-time nap. A dry nappy a couple of hours after his last nappy change would also be an indication that he is getting some bladder control.
• He shows signs of awareness when doing a poo, i.e. he goes very quiet and squeezes his legs together, or points to his nappy and says "poo" or "pee-pee" when he has done one.
• He can understand and follow simple instructions, e.g. "go and fetch your red ball" or "put your toy in the box".
• He is eager to participate in taking off his own clothes, e.g. shoes, socks and shorts, and understands what pulling his shorts up and down means.
• He has the ability to sit still and occupy himself or concentrate for 5-10 minutes with a toy or book.

If your son is showing all of the above signs then he is certainly ready for potty training. How successful you are will also depend on whether you are really ready and prepared. In my second book I devote a whole chapter on how to successfully potty train a child in one week. The chapter also covers how to deal with stubborn children and various other problems encountered by many parents during the potty training period. Many local libraries are now stocking the book so it may be worthwhile scanning the chapter to see if it appeals to you.

Thanks Pupuce - I did get a similar list to what you've indicated from other sources. I'd say he fits the bill for all of them except the first. He was pretty much soaking the trainer pants in about 1 1/2 hours. He doesn't even drink a great deal so he must still be doing a little fairly often. I obviously can't criticise authors if I haven't read them and I am sure some may give good advice. I just wouldn't go out of my way to buy this kind of book but if it was in the library then that is different.

If you are looking for tricks, here are 2 I am using with some success :

1. I don't keep asking if he wants to go on the potty as this annoys him, I let him run around and regularely remind him that he can't poo on the floor or in his underpants... he then repeats "poo no floor!". I found that telling him to go on the potty made him believe he had to sit on it all the time and that turned him off- he would then have an accident.
2. When he was a bit stuborn and would not go on the potty I told him that Winnie the Pooh (his current fad) would always go on the potty and not the floor. He also refers to that himself.

Eulalia - both my sons were trained very quickly (when they were just two), despite not fulfilling Gina Ford's first criteria at all. When I/they thought they were ready we took them out of nappies completely, and left the nappies off, and expected and prepared for a degree of mess. They were getting the hang of it within a couple of days, and were pretty much dry within a fortnight.

Just a thought re the baby thing - it is very difficult to potty train whilst breast feeding a young baby. My eldest son decided that he no longer wanted to wear nappies when the baby was 6 weeks old. It was very hard work, and tough on the baby, but it fortunately didn't take long. It may be easier to train him now, if he really is ready, but obviously there are risks with this route too, as others have mentioned.

Good luck - let us know how you get on.

OK How about this one. My daughter is now 2 and 9 months. We have been trying to potty train since the summer with varying degrees of success. At the moment she is perfectly capable of using the potty or the loo, she will say is you ask her that she has to tell mummy or daddy when she needs a wee wee and that she is not to use her knickers. However some days we have great sucess and loads of stars on her chart, the next day 7 changes of clothes! Some days she will even poo on the pot, other days 3 or 4 times in her pants!

I know she is capable of controlling it, I know she knows what she should do. She also loves getting stars on her chart, but she can't be bothered at times. We have tried sweeties, pull-up pants, no knickers, knickers and have just bought training pants since I am sick of her peeing on the sofa!

I am loathe to put her back in nappies, but has anyone got any bright ideas. I think she may be doing this as a power/attention seeking thing, if she wets herself, we pay her attention as we don't want wet knickers running around. That's why I bought training pants to get her used to the uncomfortable feeling of wet knickers. My other thought has been the changes we have had in chilcare, we have been a bit all over the place for a couple of months. Hopefully this is now settled permenantly.

What does anyone think?

our little boy who is 2yrs 10 months has been toilet trained for about 8 months. However every couple of months he constantly poo's in his pants, it's disgusting. So I bought him some pants from M&S with thomas the tank engine on. Fingers crossed he doesn't like pooing on Thomas!!! I guess you could try Barbie or something??

Can anyone help me. I have a 2 and half year old who is very bright but appears to be pitched in a battle of wills with me over the potty. She can stay dry for hours at a time with no nappy or knickers on but as soon as she wears knickers she no longer runs to the potty but wees or poos in her knickers. I is summer here now in austalia and i was hopong to start now but she says no when i ask her if she wants to use the potty. My eldest daughter was dry day and night at 2 and 2 months so find this a little frustrating. Should I persevere or leave her for a while longer
Thanks for reading this.

I'm no expert but my gut reactions are -
Jue I'd leave it a while, again, if you think there is a battle going on then I'd withdraw from the conflict.

Crunchie, I would definitely put her back in nappies the next time she has a couple of accidents. Like you said she does understand, so it could be deliberate or it could be triggered by the childcare disruptions. if it is a deliberate attempt to get attention if you're getting stressed or embroilled in a battle, then withdraw from the conflict - that may well diffuse the situation. But if it is the childcare,then putting her back in nappies without much fuss either way could temporaily relieve the situation. I'd just explain that if she's having so many accidents, maybe she isn't ready after all. Then don't mention it again. Then the ball's back in her court. She then will probably decide pretty quickly (or at least when she is ready) she wants her knickers back. At least it shows she can't use 'accidents' to wind you up, if that is a factor.

Hope my comments are of some use

Thanks inky, we have decided to do that, she slept this afternoon and was dry for over 5 hours but cried for her nappy on as she was bursting to go for a wee, she refused the potty/toilet so i think she may be ready physically but obviously not emotionally....we'll get there one day!!!

Nickiew, she has Winnie Pooh knicks and ones with ducks, I have justt bought some tweenie ones, but I don't think that is the issue, she doesn't seem to care if she poos on Pooh! Perhaps I should put her back in nappies, only she still tells us 50% of the time she wants a wee, even in nappies, so it seems silly to put her back in them. We are trying training pants since at least then we won't be forced to drop everything and change her the minute she wees in them, I am sure this is her point, she gets instant attention. Yeasterday was a bit of a disaster since she had diareoah (SP) so that christened all the pairs of pants we had!

Crunchie, I think I wouldn't put her back into nappies. At nearly three and with very obvious signs that she is capable, she could 'read' it as you caving in to her demands. You've maybe tried this, but one way of avoiding giving her extra attention for accidents is to get her to change herself after the accident. It's a bit teeth-grinding, as you want to jump in and do it yourself, but if you can have handy for her a box of wipes, spare knickers and a bowl/bucket for her to put the wet ones in, she might soon get fed up of changing herself. You can even give her a bowl of soapy water in which to wash them, although that can backfire if she decides she likes hand washing! They can be thrown in the laundry for a proper wash later, of course, when she isn't looking. Good luck.

Love that idea, makeing her wash her own undies! What about the sofa cushions when she's weed on them too !!!

LOL, Crunchie - why not, if you've a big enough bucket to put 'em in!! :O

NIGHTS.
Does anyone have any experience with this problem or can give me tips. My daughter is 4 1/2. She stopped using a nappy during the day when she was 2 without any problems but despite numerous attempts we have not been able to stop weeing at night. The main problem is that she does not wake up if she wets the bed because she is an extremely deep sleeper (we pulled down a wall in the room beside her and she didn't stir). Worse is that she is not at all bothered by this despite our attempts to motivate her. The last time we tried to go without nappies she asked - haven't you had a chance to go to the shop to buy any? She sleeps so deeply that if we try and wake her to get to her pee in the middle of the night she is like a sack of potatoes and there is absolutely no way she is in control of her bladder. I have also heard that this is not recommended either, although I don't know what is recommended.

Apart from that I would like to add that in Norway where I live there is definitely a more Dutch approach to nappy problems (see comments from another mother). I don't know anyone who has stressed like the mothers who have been discussing things here. People here are much less uptight about this sort of thing and maybe the UK children sense the stress and resist. The kindergartens centres all accept children in nappies which of course is rather different. If anyone had suggested otherwise they would have been considered child-abusers. Almost all the children we know just stopped using nappies when they were ready with no stress whatsoever. Actually I know one little boy who is 4 who has problems but there is a bit more to the situation than just nappies.

I just have to ask one more thing - if you are at home with the child, and not forced to stop because of the kinderkarten problem, why is it a problem for them to use nappies? Is it because of the cost or the environmental considerations? I can't see the problem myself. It is so easy to dispense with nappies and once they start using the toliet you have to start helping them wipe their bum all the time and coffee mornings just get interupted all the time :-)

2107, both my DD's have been over 5 before stopping night-time nappies. When a child sleeps so deeply that they are unable to waken, I really think it's just a case of waiting for them to mature. My older DD used to be soaked within an hour of going to bed - there seemed no answer to that one, except age! And she suddenly gained control when she was about 6. I think it's one of those taboo subjects, but I know there are plenty of similar chidren, because the manufacturers wouldn't be making large size nappies if it was just me buying them!!

As regards your second message, I recently read an article by a psychologist about late potty training which said that it can a problem because it inhibits the independance of a maturing child and can be the result of parents wanting to 'infantilise' their child for longer. I honestly don't know what I think about that view. My boys, who are grown up, were both easily and reliably trained by 21/4, while I struggled with my girls until they were nearer 3. I wonder whether the fact the boys were in terry nappies, while the girls wore disps had anything to do with it.

2017 - I wouldn't get too hung up about the age thing for wetting the bed. I wet the bed until I was at least 6 and I've definitely grown out of it now! I also know of another child who, at nearly 9, is still regularly wetting the bed. There may be other reasons rather than bladder control - I was just a lazy cow and the other child that I know of had problems when changing schools. But, my point is that most children grow out of it - eventually. Actually, in those examples only 50% have grown out of it haven't they?????? Anyway, most adults DON'T wet the bed - that's my point, I think.

Suedonim - which are the largest nappies? Ds is a large 4 1/2 and we've been using Pampers Premiums for his nights but they are getting tight ...
I'm interested to read this because I've read elsewhere (prob a magazine - can't remember) that you should try the star chart approach to get them dry by night - which mystified me because if the child is weeing in its sleep, what good will that do other than set him/her up for failure?
I know with my ds its partly a comfort thing - at night he actually likes having nappies because he's said so - wees in them when he's still awake - but he does also still wee in his sleep so while I'm not stressed about him staying in them I am wondering how much longer he'll fit!

Inkpen - Pampers do extra-large nappies and many of the supermarkets do their own-brand in an xl size too. Have you tried large pull-ups or dry-nights aged 4-7 yrs?