I'm not accusing anyone BUT.... a phone call from my MIL

[Demon]

That's how the call started from my MIL, "but my engagement ring is missing".

My two ds aged 9 & 3 years have just spent the weekend at my In-Laws. She rang me this morning, when everyone else was at work/school, to say that her rings had been played with and one was now missing did anyone know where it was? I looked through my eldest ds trouser pockets and there was the ring. I have told her that I have found the ring and will keep it safe, but what do I do now?

He's done it before but then it was money that he took and not something of such sentimental value. At the time we didn't tell his Dad as he would....well it wouldn't be nice. But what do I do now?

I obviously want this to stop. He has to learn that it is not right to take other peoples things and that trust is something extremely important and he is now not to be trusted. How far do we go? Do I tell my husband? How do we give the ring back? Do I make him do it?

I am shaking because I am shocked and angry.

Demon - you poor thing thats awful! I suspect you are very worried firstly about how to react towards your DS but also as to what lies behind his taking things that don't belong to him.

I suspect there are as many ways of dealing with this as seconds in the day, but if it was my child I would think hard about the thing that he values most of all - a toy, playstation, dvd, cd whatever. I would march him to the nearest charity shop and make him donate it. I think this would be a very good demonstration of how people feel when they are parted from their dearest possessions. No backing down, no going in and buying it back later!

I would tell his dad but only in the context of 'this is what happened and this is how I have dealt with it - its over and done with now, I think he's learned his lesson'.

As a longer term thing though, you are going to have to start a discussion about why he does these things and what road this might take him down. Is he otherwise a happy soul?

Hace a cuppa and have a breather - you are going to have a lot to deal with later on today!

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Demon, I'm not sure a 9-yr-old understands sentimental value, but this would be a good opportunity to have one of those Serious Talks we all have to do now and again - about the importance of never taking anything that isn't ours (regardless of actual value) and "you wouldn't like it if someone took something of yours".

Yes, he should give the ring back himself, and apologise, and (assuming there is a perfectly innocent reason) explain why he took it. I honestly don't think this is an indication that he is heading for a criminal career.

I am concerned at what you imply about his father though...if you think he would deal with this by hitting him then no, don't tell him.

OK, I stole a plastic seal from the school farm when i was about 6. Might seem like something much less important, but i think to children these things are relative, I saw it, wanted it, knew it was wrong, but stole it anyway.

That evening, it fell out of my pocket in front of my mum (typical) and my face must have said it all. She very coldly and calmly asked me where it was from, and she was so scarey that i told her straight away. She told me I had to take it back the next day. I felt so ashamed at having to do this that I've never nicked anything since!

Same thing happened first time I bunked off. My parents found out and I was made to go to the headmistress with a note saying my parents had punished me but the school were to do what they wanted as I had no excuse for truanting the day before. I was 12. Never did it again.

I think what your ds has done is somewhere between the two. Sham is a powerful thing. I think you should calmly but seriously tell him how wrong it is to take things, and I think you should make him give it back to your mother-in-law himself (tell her in advance that this is his punishment and that she doesn't need to lay it on, but that a few words about how worried she was when it was gone and how glad she is he's been able to return it would be good).

I wouldn't worry overly about this. It's normal for kids to push boundaries in this way and learn what is acceptable or not. but nip it in the bud, and I think that making him face the person he stole from is a good way of doing that. hth!

I agree that your feelings about what your husband might do a more of a cause for concern. V important that the two of you decide how to deal with things together and try to present a united front (i know easier said than done). btw in the post below meant to say Shame not sham!

I will take my ds back to my MIL sometime in the next day or so and make him give back the ring with an apology. I will also take away the use of his Gameboy, Playstation and computer for a week/two weeks? (that will hit him hard) I will talk to him and try to reason with him, but not sure what exactly to say and I'm still not sure what to do or say as far as his Dad is concerned.

PLEASE can you give me more advice.

Demon, can you explain why you're so upset about this? Is there more to it? All kids (well, most kids) take things at some point...has he done it a lot? Are there other problems?

how do you think that his dad might react demon? what are you worried about in this respect?

Are you sure he took it deliberately or could they have been playing a game where he just forgot he had it? Sometimes DD's will have friends over and lay games that involve carrying a multitude of things in their pockets and usually someone goes home with something - though not as precious as an engagement ring.
Could you tell him when he comes home that Grannie has been on the phone asking if he has any idea where he last saw it? If he says not then I would emphasis how upset Grannie was and were they playing a game where they hid it etc?? I think I would head down that path before accusing him of deliberately taking it.

I was a stealer when little, it graduated to fetching $20 out of the till of my mum and dads coffee shop when I was 11. They arranged for me to speak to policeman and showed me the jails and the people in them.
I never ever did it again, they also threatened me with a psychiatrist, I did it for attention, looking back I cna see it clearly, parents on brink of divorce, rows me not being noticed....
Do tell your husband, deal with it calmly as your son will expect over reaction, that may be why he is doing it. Then perhaps ask him why he feels the need to do it and that if he steals something again, the person concerned might call the police as it is theft. This could work? But remember I had been doing it for a long long time before they chose to deal with it.
xx kiwi

I know lots of kids take things that don't belong to them, but I can understand why Demon feels upset. I think I would be! I think many of us like to think that our children are somehow not going to be like that. (A bit like the dream of 4 week old baby sleeping through the night - none of us want to believe we'll be the one that gets the one that wakes on the hour every hour).

Of course its unrealistic in many ways but IME a lot of parentling is like that. In this particular area there is also the emotiveness that surrounds the thought that our dear little Johnny might turn out to be a common thief - no matter how much we tell ourselves this is unlikely!

Demon what is it that you would like more advice on. What to say to him or what to say to his Dad.

I would echo the others in the latter regard - is his Dad likely to be very aggressive with him. If so that is not good!

My ds does have sticky fingers to some extent. As I said he has taken money from them before, just the once when he was about 5. During the conversation with my MIL she said that he had taken two rings before but they fell out of his pocket when he was playing on the floor and they found them before he got to take them home. Last week we had to return a Gameboy game that he had taken from one of his friends house.

My husband is not a bad man at all but I don't know how he would react. Where I take advice about things to find out the best thing to do he would not and would probably jump in feet first.

I would really appreciate more advice on what to say to my ds and what to say to dh. Do I tell him now? or in a week? or in a year? or not at all?

Demon
Can you liaise with Granny to have a chat with him. She could tell him how much she loves him and admires what a lovely boy he's growing up to be. Perhaps then express her disappointment that he has taken the ring, but knows that this is out of character etc etc. Given that the last incident is so long ago I wouldn't tend to link them, but is there anything about your MIL that would make her the target of these incidents?

If you think you can contain your DH from acting rashly, then I do think you would be better to tell him.

I think 9 is probably a difficult age for a boy - maybe granny is more reticent to cuddle and 'mother' him now he is getting older and feels he is missing out on some of the attention your younger child gets. Maybe this is just a childish way at getting back at her.

I think Momof2's advice about how to broach it with DS is good - his reaction will help you to tell how innocently or otherwise he took it. Maybe you could put it back in his pocket before you talk to him, and then if he denies knowing anything you could suggest looking for it in his room?

Whether he admits straight away that he took it, or you have to "find" it with him, then you can talk about possessions and stealing and honesty, and try to find out why he took it, and how he'd feel if something important to him was taken, and how he thinks this situation should be dealt with. And definitely tell him that MIL was upset to find it missing.

How did you deal with the money and Gameboy game?

Still not sure about telling his dad...what would your MIL think? Is that why she waited until he wasn't there to ring you?

If you are sure he took it and knows about it then I would still give him the opportunity to own up. I would ask him if he knew where Grannies ring was as she had called to say she had lost it and had searched the whole house from top to bottom all day and been really upset (ie play on his guilt a bit). If he owns up straight away then I would ask him to call his Grannie immediately to apologise and explain what had happened.
If he doesn't then I would ask him if he would go and check his clothes he had on and be there when he makes his discovery. THen I think I would very calmly explain how awful it is to take other people's things. I think in this instance I might even be tempted to take something away from him without telling him and wait for him to notice and then deny having it so he can feel the same way as his gran, but amybe that's a bit extreme?
I would really try not to greet him with an accusation though until you have given him the chance to explain himself.

With regard to DH, perhaps you could bring it up after bedtime tonight when it is dealt with. I would very casually say that his Mum had called as she had lost her ring and ds found it in his trouser pocket and has called her back to let her know. I wouldn't make an issue of it as you have dealt with it and he only needs to know the end of story version and I certainly wouldn't make it the 1st conversation I had with DH when he comes home.

The money that he took from them, just one occasion, I told him that it was a bad thing to do and that he wasn't to do it again. I also believe that they spoke to him at the time. We never told his Dad. The game was treated as an innocent mistake. I told him that he should make sure that he looked after his and other peoples property by making sure that he had his belongings only when he left other peoples houses and was not to 'borrow' things without other peoples permission. My ds took the game back the next day to school and gave it back to the boy, I do not know what he said.

I wish that she hadn't waited for me to be alone before ringing and I wish that she had told his Dad herself instead of leaving me to deal with it. Maybe I should ask them wether I should tell him or not? or maybe they should tell him themselves?

If they don't plan to tell your DH then you don't need to either - I don't imagine your DS is going to tell him! - so yes, it would be a good idea to ask them.

It sounds as if what you said to him about the Gameboy is roughly what you need to repeat now...I don't think the actual and/or sentimental value of the ring is significant at 9. (My DS (who's 11) has occasionally come home with lumps of Blutack from school just because he likes it; I think that's just as wrong as the ring, and do tell him off, though of course nobody's going to notice that it's missing.) But you do need to try to find out why he took it - was it just because it's pretty, or is it something deeper, as Soapbox suggested? If it is deeper maybe you need a different approach from just the "wrong to steal" one.

Maybe the shock that his Dad knowing what has gone on may be enough to make it stop now. I have after all given him chances before, the money and game. Maybe taking to him just isn't enough now?

I meant talking to him.

As the money was 4 years ago, he probably doesn't even remember it - it's not as if he's been taking things regularly since then. I'd still be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt this time - it may just be a coincidence that he took the ring the week after the game.

Also, if my kids are anything to go by, ranting at them is counterproductive - they just seem to switch off in a panic.

Demon
I haven't read all of these so apologies if I'm repeating.
My DP has very vivid memories of stealing something from some friends of his parents at the same age. He took it because he loved it - it was some sort of ethnic nick-nack! He really didn't think he was doing anything wrong - he just 'borrowed' it to have in his bedroom for the night and then intended to give it back the next day. When his mum found it she made him take it back and explain what had happened. It really made an impression on him - especially as the two old ladies were really upset! So I guess what I'm saying is that firstly you don't have a budding career criminal in the family (my DP is a teacher....). Secondly, your ds's motives might have been pretty innocent and maybe he thought your mil wouldn't notice/ hadn't really thought through the consequences? I think you need to talk to him and work out why he did it. I also think that him having a chat with Granny and seeing how upset she is and saying sorry would be worthwhile. Also, maybe you can get him to think up his own punishment - maybe something useful like cleaning Granny's windows rather than taking something away from him.

Why are you worried about telling your dh? Is it because dh will react by shouting? Or is there something more?
Unless you are very worried that your dh will steam in without discussing reaction with you first, I'd tell him. He is your son's father, after all. I'd feel terrible if my dh 'hid' something like this from me. But as others have said, perhaps you could deal with it yourself first and fill dh in on the details later.
You know better than me how much your ds understands about other people's possessions not belonging to him (as an aside, the age of criminal responsibility is 10 so our legal system assumes children of 9 don't understand adult concepts like theft). Perhaps knowing that his dad knows about it will make him realise that this is serious.
Did your MIL say what she wanted you to do about it?
I do like the suggestion of putting it back in your son's pocket and telling him Granny's lost her ring and then 'finding' it together. And then having a serious talk about not taking other people's things, and how upset Granny is.
PS I took a few things from my mum at this age as told myself all our stuff was 'ours'. I think actually I knew it wasn't. Got slippered (not that I'm recommending that) and my mum took me to see a policeman who told me off. Never did it again.
HTH

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