Working mothers of larger families....say 4+

[mozhe]

I would like to start a thread exchanging ideas/support amongst WOHMs, who work fulltime,( or nearly so..),and have larger than average families...I have 5, aged from 6.5 months,( twins ! ), upto 5.5 years.I know there are ' others ' out there who are further down the line.It would be useful to get ideas/discussion going about enjoying this challenging lifestyle and coping with the difficult bits...I work fulltime,( it feels like more sometimes ! but I wouldn't have it any other way ),as a hospital doctor, as does dh.
Please no WOHM ' bashing '...the idea behind this thread is to get a genuine exchange of ideas.

count me in, I have 5 and have worked fulltime, been home and now am studying full-time. Maybe you could frame a question or issue and we can jump in.

Great to hear from you christie1....I guess my main question is how have other Wohms with large families have come their situation...by choice ? circumstances ? Did you start young, and combine having a family with carving a career out..or spend time building up the career and then have babies..What are the pros and cons...it's hard work, in certain respects, having 5 so close in age...there must be advantages/disadvantages to having a more spaced out family ? Also I realize, that challenges/joys of parenting change as children get older, it would be good to get ideas/thoughts on this too...And to every poster, what is your top tip to Wohms with big families ?

Message withdrawn

pmsl pitchounette - did you lose one? . Although this may e hijacking your thread mozhe, it could be interesting for all of us who work. I work 2 days a week (but hope to do more eventually), I'm on my own with 3 DDs, youngest has SN. I feel like have a dual life - the begining of the week with 2 working days, the end "catching up" with the chaos at home this has caused. What childcare do those of you who work full/ nearly full time have? I use after school club for elder DD and youngest one goes to my sister after school, although I'm on look out for a suitable childminder. School holidays involves me, exH, and sister taking leave to cover the days.

I'll also watch this thread. I'm thinking of going back to work (well actively looking for a job) and have 4 children and a dh who is not around during the week much. I would really like to know how you all sort childcare (I have 2 at school, one at nursery and one at home.

I certainly don't mean to exclude people, because everyone is welcome to discuss the challenges/rewards of combining being a fulltime worker with parenting a larger than average family...whether you're in the midst of it,( like me ! ), further down the line,( as in your children are older ), or you're just contemplating such a lifestyle..I had the idea because on other threads there has been some difficulty ,from my point of view, in getting a genuine exchange of ideas going...it often seemed to descend into the same old WOHMvsSAHM mudslinging..not helpful if you are in my position and are looking for practical ideas and real debate. I'd like us to start from the point that we are all committed workers AND mothers.
Good tips btw.....As to childcare I'm lucky enough to be able to employ a fulltime nanny, as I don't see how else I could manage it as I frequently work 12 hour days,( my choice entirely ).I look on her,( and dh ), as my partner in the great childcare jigsaw..we are very much a team.
I am very organized too and I absolutely don't do guilt...

I have 5. How have we managed? An understanding (when I was married) that children have two parents who are equally responsible. In other words a non-sexist marriage (.. not that it lasted beyond 19 years....but that's slightly irrelevant to that issue)...
My (and my husband's) lack of guilt feelings at working.
Money - earned enough to pay for a daily nanny and eventually a cleaner who comes in 5 mornings a week and does the washing and cleaning.

When I had the twins as my husband worked most weekends I got someone to have the twins here for 3 hours on Sat morning too which helped as I had the other 3 to manage too.

There are actually quite a few women who work in the City of London with large families that I know

• 6 or 7 or more children. I think it's a trend and men too. I suppose it's a nicer sign of wealth than a stupid car or yacht in some ways and if you want to sho you're brilliant at work why not have the perfect brady bunch, Sound of Music type family too perhaps for some people....

For me I just love children. When I was about 6 I was saying I wanted 7 of them. I had the first 13 months after we married. I was 22.

A book I enjoyed reading on this years ago was by Valerie Grove who interviewed working mothers with more than 3 children including people like the Longfords, a female judge and others.

It's a bit dated now that book I suppose but worth getting I think - www.amazon.co.uk/Compleat-Woman-Marriage-Motherhood-Career/dp/0701129255/sr=8-6/qid=1163638423/ref=sr_1_6/202-8051498-8464604?ie=UTF8&s=books

I suppose now I'm in a separate category as full time working mother of five solely supporting the children ...but 3 are at university. The hardest time of all was when we had 3 under 4 and I was 26 and working full time and commuting into the City. It was the lack of sleep and the fact at that age I didn't have money and power and control, things which can make working full time with a large family easier.

Oh oh oh... cnaI join? I only have two kids but this looks the beginning of a very useful thread (if it doesn't turn into a mud slinging match). PLEASE!

I worked full time (did part time too - but was just full time on less money in reality) and think that the key to doing it well is to enjoy the job and to organise ruthlessly.

I worked as I had no choice and decided that if I was going to work I was going to go for it, enjoy it and get the most out of it. I think feeling guilty (or even worse, wistful) is a killer.

I have had another baby, gained a stepson and a new husband and no longer work (other than the writing) and love it, to be honest. I met a great woman the other day, a cardiologist with four young children and we got on very well and I actually felt guilty for leading the life of riley. But do I miss the adrenalin, the list making, the rushing - no. I miss the status, the money (!) and the social side of working.

Well I only have my 2yo DTS and returned to work part-time (scientist)and will hopefully go back full time when they are settled in school. I was recently appointed as a Non-Executive Director for my local NHS trust and even though it is suppose to be for only 2.5 days a month (that is why I applied for it), it is more like 2 days a week so in a way I am working full time. The boys now go to nursery 4 days a week and I can honestly say that I am not stressed by it all. The reasons for this are:

1. DH and I work as a team (I am not a married single mother, IYKWIM).
2. Routine, routine, routine! My boys have been in a routine since they were about 16 weeks and they know when to eat, nap, bathe, go to bed etc.
3. Organise, organise, organise! I live by a rota. I do my washing on certain days, iron as soon as dry and put away. Full house vacuum one day a week, dust when needed. DH is responsible for bathroom room and cloakroom. We both clean/wipe down kitchen everynight. Everything is put away once used hence no clutter. The boys even pack away their toys and now, they even put their dirty clothes in the laundry basket. I cook and freeze so I don't have to cook meals on the days I work.

Routine and organisation gives you more time to spend with your family, IMO.

Does anyone find that schools expect you to be around during the day? My DD is in nursery (attached to the primary school) and I get messages at home asking me to pop into the office when I drop her off at school at 12:45. Eh? You don't really think I'm going to be a- home to get that message before 7:00pm or b- available to pop into school in the middle of the day.

Are private schools like this too? Do youguys find the school system expects all the mums to be at home all day? It all seems very 1950's to me. Why oh why would they think I'd be home? They have my work and mobile numbers. Also, I've been trying to find a way to get involved with the school but anything that they want parental volunteers for hapens during my working hours. I'm feeling rather left out.

good idea this.
I am single with two sons - 6 and almost 3. I work full-time but considering that manage to spend a lot of time with my boys so no, I don't do the guilt thing either. For me the most positive things I've done are:
1 I have a cleaner once a week for 3 hours - it removes a lot of stress knowing that the floors/bathroom etc are clean and leaves me free to declutter wardrobes/toys when I have a free hour or two.
2 I live close to work and in the summer months I walk/cycle - this keeps me fit without taking a chunk out of my time with my children. As my commute is so small I do all the drop-offs / pick-ups for school and am able to attend meetings/plays etc at DS1's school easily.
3 I am single but have a large helpful family and friends nearby. I travel with my job so this is invaluable when I need the support. I have a good social circle that includes my children so I feel that I have a good portion of time for myself without taking it from my children.
4 this is one that I'm not great at, but early to bed makes life a whole lot nicer.

Now if I could be more organised about food planning etc life would be easier.

I work full-time. Not by choice. Necessity. I only have two children.

I do agree w/Xenia in that I have a marriage in which we see each other as partners.

My DH stays home w/both girls - ages 3 and 11 months - during the day. He works evenings and weekends.

I have never seen my daughter off to nursery or picked her up.

Thanks all..incredibly interesting/useful ideas...
Xenia...Yes, making it an equal non-sexist marriege probably where I struggle most.Always seem to have to keep on top of this,( just lots of little things,ie;arranging to pay nanny/cleaner...all the nitty gritty of school liason/health checks etc...he WILL do it very happily/efficiently BUT it's never in his mind...), maybe need to sit down and really divvy this up again...Agree, neither of us suffer the guilt thing, probably because bith of us think we are doing the right thing, and don't consider and never have doing it differently.£££s help enormously, I put off having family 'til 38 and had my consultant post well under well because I didn't think I could climb greasy medical pole with lots of LOs in tow...It was hard waiting, for me rather than dh..DO you think it is a trend toward bibgger families , rather than yacht/house in Tuscany etc.? Never thought of it that way...but do know several big families with 2 medic parents,so maybe. Will get book, really like V.Grove.Do you think easier,or just different with three teenagers ? Am lucky on sleep side because I need very little sleep, and always have, in fact find I sleep slightly better post children than before.
UW- really hope this thread will be about help/exchange ideas not mudslinging....this thread really about people who want to lead this type of lifestyle....I know what you mean re; schools, my elder three at private London day school with some yummy-mummy types but also a hell of a lot of hardworking WOHMS,( probably many more of those...), just made it very clear from outet that ALL' day to day ' stuff to go through nanny, they eventually got message.Although once phoned up whilst at mental health review tribunal,( sort of like a mini court situation but held in a hospital where dtentions under metal health act looked at etc...so pretty formal ) by PTA type asking me whether I was concerned re; worn stair carpet at school where darling children could trip up and break necks....perhaps you can imagine reply..I just removed tel nos from PTA lit thing and just give it to those that ' need to know'...
Bobo..why not go back to work ?

Apologies re; terrible typos....trying to post whist on train, and know I should be preparing for conference speech !

My ex bf came from a family of two parents who were both doctors - his dad a surgeon and his mum a pathologist. There were 4 kids, and at first, I was a little shocked to learn they grew up w/rotas governing just about everything. Chores, bill paying, lessons, etc.

Then I understood why.

That woman could have rivalled ANY drill sargeant on the planet.

I think the key is being a VERY organised person.

A place for everything and everything in its place ruled the roost.

Hi Mozhe, I'd like to join in now we,ve noved on form our disagreements about the Portland! We are a two medic family, consultant nephrologist father and we have 4 9, 8, 5, and almost one .However I got pg unexpectedly at 26 and fell right off the peadiatric ladder i was on .Since then I've built up a nice self employed portfolio, Ive done a law degree and have moved into the field of forensic medicine as it fitted in, I worked nights as a police doctor so I could be around in the day. I also have 2 days nursery care. top tips i've discovered over the years are
1.try not to critcise dh's ways of doing things, set yuorself the baseline that as long as they are safe and happy it doesnt matter if has fed them crap/let them watch too much telly etc

1. Cleaners once a week are worth every penny. even if you come home and think they havent dont a great job dont get rid and think you can do it all yourself as you then discover just how much they really did do
2. If you are tired from nights exercise really helps
3. self employment is a good option for 1 of the couple, removes a lot of guilt as if you dont trun up becuase a kid's unwell you dont get paid
4. Manage your children's expectations, all schools seem to work on the basis that there is aparent at home FT so try to go to some things but if you dont tell them early. Mine have always understood the 'there's a poorly person line' as long as I do get to some things

God feel quite organised now, might even have another baby!!!!

Mozhe

You say that you have 5 children but did not start family until 38yo. Is that correct and if so, would you mind sharing the age when you gave birth each time.

I keep telling DH that 45yo is my upper age for not trying for more but he thinks it should be 42 or 43. I'm 42 soon and I don't feel ready to have more, if ever.

have 4 - 2, 7, 10 & 13. Work full time - in fact I'm taking some exams tomorrow! Have to be ruthlessly organised & have the fabbest childminder in the whole wide world which helps!

3 teenagers? Much easier than small chidlren. Under 5 is the hardest stage of life. Teenager are interesting. They do spend a lot of time trying to annoy the parents. It's a very different kind of challenge but easier than babies and 2 are not 22 and 20 so I only have one teenager now. The twins are 8.

Re husbands, I don't think you need some kind of Maoist chinese equality at home if you have someone you love and you both have faults and one will be better at some things than others. But I liked the fact my ex husband was often the one who sorted out the nanny as I got home after him, that in 17 years I never took a child to the dentist or even thought about it.... I suppose you just work out the division of tasks that works for you. Sometimes it's just better to accept that he (or she) will never be the person to remember to put the rubbish out and best just to do it yourself than argue for 20 years about it. We were both quite tidy - the comment below about both tidying up etc - our house has always run a bit like that. But if either person feels things are unfair then it should be discussed and changes made. It's very easy to complain about things but tolerate them and keep taking on burdens when it may be more effective to talk about it, delegate it and don't ever do it if it's a task given to someone else otherwise you are colluding in their breach of the arrangement I suppose.

Agree with the comment about routines and order. The children love structure and what is happening when and I think with larger families and twins making it all a bit more like a production line can help things run smoothly.

Schools.... I think a lot of the mothers at my chdilren's schools worked. May be private school parents have to work more to pay fees or they just choose too. They were fairly academic schools rather than trophy blonde younger wives with long nails who never work type of schools. My ex husband worked nearer the schools than I did so he tended to be the one who would come out in an emergency for practical reasons.

May I ask a question out of general interest.

Do you, Mozhe and Xenia, ever get the chance to sit down with a magazine for half an hour or so. Also, (2 questions then), do you ever get exhausted and if not why not, ie how do you not.

My interest stems from the fact that in my 20s and 30's I worked full time in a very physical career (Armed Forces and Police), but now in my 40s and with only 2 children, I just don't have the energy that I did when I was younger.

Hi Mozhe,

I have 4 children aged 2, 9, 15 & 19 (all currently living at home) and work nearly full-time (4 days)
In answer to your original question, I guess I started fairly young (23 and not long out of university) and my career (or careers as I've changed career path drastically twice since then)happened alongside my having children. Tbh I never really intended having so many children, which is probably one of the reasons for the large age gaps. Once they got to a certain age, having another one seemed like a good idea
My top tips would be: good childcare; good support systems - if you can manage to have helpful parents / friends around, not necessarily for regular childcaring but in case of emergencies then it makes life so much easier; good organisation - think of what could possibly go wrong and try to have a plan for it just in case; short commuting distances (I didn't realise when I moved to my current house just how much I would hate the 1 hour each way (on a good day) commute and last of all, try not to feel guilty about working or about having a large family.
Oh and a husband / partner who shares the responsibility (which I have) and a cleaner (which I would love but have never been able to afford ) are useful too.
Hope all this helps

Hm...don't really fit this discription...as only have 3 children and my Job so far is on bank and relief and so far pretty non existent and will be...in the future, too...as dh is in the Army and is going on a 6 month tour next year....my questions...from what sort of payment is it worth to actually work money wise....I know rather callous, but, if I have the same in money as I have now without working I rather not, iykwim!
How do you cope with Family life if it is just you and you work fulltime/partime....!