Now I feel really crap.

[Moobaloo]

sarahockwell-smith.com/2012/11/04/5-reasons-why-your-birth-can-affect-your-baby-and-your-parenting/

Warning - The above link is about how unnatural birth/induction/assisted birth can affect you and your baby.

It really upset me, I have to share somewhere. I had an awful, long induction when I was overdue with lots of complications and intervention. Then a baby that was over 10lb to boot.

We've had a rough time, breastfeeding was so hard and couldn't go right, I gave up at four months. I love him so much but feel something is missing, I think I have pnd, I'm definitely not the same person anymore. He's never slept through the night (9 months now) and it's killing me. I fight more with my lovely lovely fiancée. I'm horrible.

Why couldn't I just be patient and refuse induction? Why was I so keen to let them take over when I'd had a textbook pregnancy and was in perfect health, with a healthy baby? Why why why. I know I can't change anything but... I just wish I'd known more. I'm a 'hippy' about most things so why did I just go along with it when a few more days of pregnancy might have started things off naturally and potentially changed everything?

Sorry. Just needed to vent. Am all alone and feel crap.

Please please please don't feel crap. I don't know who Sarah Stockwell Smith is but I see she has books and products to sell and a vested interest in making you feel crap. Also she gives shit advice: "Next time you meet a new mum with a colicky baby – think about asking her about her birth."

No. Never do this.

It is upsetting not to have the birth experience you want - I had emergency CS with DS1 following a failed induction and a planned CS with DS2 for several reasons - and the only time I think of it now is when people ask. My friend had a totally natural birth and could only breastfeed for 3 weeks. There is no magic rule which says everything will be perfect if you have the textbook birth.

Please don't be hard on yourself. Get help if you suspect you have PND but don't allow thoughts of things you did "wrong" to make you feel guilty.

You have done nothing wrong. You have done nothing wrong. You have done nothing wrong.

There is no fault in having PND. There is no fault in intervention and no merit in a 'drug-free' birth. As for that link - lots of waffle with very little evidence.

Final thought: do you really care about the views of a woman who will say publicly that she loves one of her children less than the others? If you were in that position you'd do everything to keep them from finding out, right? You'd post about it anonymously if at all.

Instead she's slammed it out there for the poor kid to find out one day. That's a woman so wrapped up in her own ill-informed certainties that she doesn't care if she hurts others.

Please don't let this nonsense cause you any more pain.

You did not do anything wrong. It does sound like you might have a touch of pnd or anxiety (it can creep up on you) and this article has triggered it a bit.

As you said, you had a long labour and a big baby. What do you think happened to women in your situation in the old days? Were they able to parent well with the horrible injuries and trauma they sustained? Are babies who get into distress best left to 'risk it' based on theories about what might happen in a few months time..? I think not! (FWIW I'm a bit of a hippy too but it really does sound like you made tge right call).

It's quite normal for babies not to sleep through the night up to a year. It's a myth put about by expensive sleep nannies and the like to get our cash that everyone else's baby sleeps through by 6 months! There's nothing wrong with a frequent waker.
But, if you're really struggling with tiredness, you can look into some gentle/no cry ways of encouraging longer sleep - or maybe get your fiancee to do some wake ups with a bottle or beaker.
I get anxious my dd is too excitable because she shot out like a greased pig. Honestly it's all in the mind.

Take care OP. Chat to your Hv or GP about mild pnd: they will be able to recommend local support. There are also hypnotherapy CDS and I find yoga helps (I have postnatal anxiety).

I find this idea about as offensive as it's possible to get. Basically if someone hadn't cut open my stomach and taken DD out we would both have died. How do I feel about my birth? I feel very relieved and glad someone had the sense to do it. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. Nothing more to sat.
Oh and for the record DD is happy, spirited, funny, highly intelligent and just a little bit a lot naughty.

Fuck ' s sake..With dd2 I had a birth with no pain relief at all, no instruments, no stitches. If you wrote it down it would be the perfect natural birth propaganda.
Guess what dd2 has been a hideously hard baby. Reflux colic you name it. Currently trying to get her to sleep and no end in sight!

Nothing you did is in any way your fault.

What a load of heavily biased rubbish.

Oh and as PP have said birth DOESN'T link to colic etc. My slow growing, little sleep, mucussy dd was born in 5 hr flat ... no time for interventions I barely made it to the hospital. She tore me from front to back, it was so fast ...
I overdid the hippy stuff, my oxytocin was too high and my adrenaline too low ... much like a drip.

Shows you how even the natural hippy birth/remedy has risks and is not perfect at all If it works!

And also natural birth doesn't guarantee angelic baby! Though my LO is a jug eared little cherub who looks angelic lol!

I see that the woman who wrote this crap piece can help you overcome difficulties for just £99 for an hour on the telephone or £250 for a visit

I can relate to part of that article, the bit about not having the injection to speed up the delivery of the placenta. I had it with ds and there were no ill effects, it did its job, nothing more to say. However with dd I didn't have the injection. Delivering the placenta naturally was a complete pain, it literally hurt like I was giving birth again, and it took ages. But afterwards for a few weeks, I was on a weird love high and I just remember thinking how much I love Dd, ds and dh.

I read that article earlier today. Load of sanctimonious bollocks.

The difficulties you have experienced may have happened after a proper woo candle-lit, crystal- meditated, lay line-orientated water birth. Or you could have both died.

Oh and of course you are not the same person anymore. You are now a mother and it takes a lot of adjusting to.

Please ignore that stupid article and see your GP about getting some help with your PND. I had a fairly mild dose of it and really benefited hugely from 6 months of ADs.

I haven't read the link. Someone will have something to gain by making you feel like shit.

Get used to it - there's more to come!

Fwiw I haven't had a 'normal' birth and I have 2 healthy children. I am pleased they got here at all!

Chin up x

I think a lot of women feel like you, we didn't get the birth we planned and can feel like we' failed' because of it. I certainly did, I wanted a water birth which I started with then ended up in theatre with an epidural and forceps (was told I should be prepared for c section) as Ds was stuck. It took me months to start to come to terms with it and i'm probably still not fully at peace with it and he is 20 months. He doesn't sleep through yet either and my relationship with dp is terrible now. I refuse to read books or articles about how wonderful birth and motherhood are, they are probably bs and at best selling a book just to make money. Try to talk to other mum's if you can, they will probably feel similar even if they haven't said anything. I wish I could give better advice but i'm pretty much bumbling about myself.

There are no guarantees with birth, and actually I think the article makes that clear. It's nice to see her insistence that parents need to be listened to when they talk about how they feel about birth.

She does make it sounds like bonding or feeding problems after caesarean or interventions are inevitable, which of course is not true. Some women like to know there are potential downsides though, so they can be more prepared.

But for the OP - you are blaming yourself for listening to the people caring for you and that seems so sad to me - why shouldn't you have put your trust in them? Why feel bad for wanting to do what they said was best for your baby? Again, there are no guarantees- no one can ever know what might have happened if you had waited a few days. I can only repeat what others have said : not your fault, and bad outcomes are NOT inevitable if you accept intervention. And take care of yourself - if you have PND, you deserve help from your GP, HV, whoever you feel able to talk to.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, what utter drivel the article is. I work in medical research, am open minded to 'alternative' medicine etc. but this 'article' is simply humbug with no evidence base whatsoever. Guess what, in the olden days, nobody received synthetic oxytocin and there were still a bunch of people with 'love issues', drug problems etc.etc. ect. Only many women died in childbirth so luckily we haven't got that problem anymore in the developed world thanks to modal intervention. I had two cs, one emergency, one elective. It's scaremongering and I hate it. I had trouble conceiving dc1 so did loads of treatments such as reflexology but the shite that some of these so called therapists sprouted was beyond the pale.

Op, if ou feel you have pnd, please speak to a doctor you trust. It is not your fault if your baby doesn't sleep, seriously it isn't. I'm sure you and your dc are brilliant but maybe you can't quite see it right now, probably due to having a demanding baby and little sleep. Be kind to yourself, this phase will pass. Don't worry yourself by reading nonsensical stuff online. Xx

"what if the process of birth was the very first massage we receive? what if birth is a pleasurable experience for the baby?” (From the article)

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha...... Cheesy, creepy, simply crap.

Sorry, there is more.... It's actually shockingly cheesy and sanctimonious:

"Oh my goodness now I knew what they meant by “love at first sight”. within 30 minutes of his birth (still in my arms in the pool) I would have died for him, I didn’t just love him though, I love everyone – it was as if I was a bubble of golden, warm love. I have never felt so high, drugged or drunk in my life. THIS is how it should be and this was how it was for my last baby. No small wonder they are both super calm and confident, why I have never stopped breastfeeding since he was born in 2005. The love was chemical….and it wasn’t there the first two times. I look at photos of my first two births and my eyes are empty, dead, hollow pools of sadness for the natural birth I had lost, the pain and indignity I had suffered, the trauma I had endured. I didn’t feel love, I felt nothing….relief it was over maybe, but that’s all and feelings of inadequacy, grief and confusion that lasted for years after the event. Is it any wonder why so many new mothers find it hard to bond with their baby?"

Omg, this is just subjective, self-centred and completely outrageous to generalise from her personal experience.

Op,really have a little chuckle at this self indulged drivel and read
"What mothers do" instead when you feel up for it.

Sorry, sorry,
This bit is actually ok:
"I listen and I listen some more. For that mum or dad it may be the first time somebody has listened and never underestimate the impact that feeling listened to can have on somebody’s state of mind."

However she does apparently charge a rather high fee for this lovely listening service. So maybe just talk to a good friend or MN for a birth debrief. . It's probably more honest and free!

The article was from 2012 - so she was BFing at aged 7?

I am in favour of extended bf but in this context, it seems like there are issues behind it.

Oh I see, she had another baby after him.

Good grief. I was thinking the article made some valid points until I got to the bit about oxytocin and long-term effects on neurophysiology. From there I was too angry to concentrate on reading it. For starters, what is she suggesting as an alternative when assistance is needed? For what it's worth, I had a drawn - out induction with my first baby and a quick 'natural labour' with my second . Yes, I was lucky enough to feel much better physically after the latter, but the way I feel about my baby is just the same. And the nights when DC2 can't settle are just as hard as they were with DC1 - there are so many other factors at play! Please ignore scaremongering and seek help if you're feeling unhappy - I'm sorry you didn't get the birth you wanted and things have been so challenging, but it's such a tiny part of the time that you will share with your child.

Moobaloo - sorry you're feeling down. I don't post much on MN these days but I couldn't ignore your post. I do know how you feel - that there was something miraculous about baby bonding that you have missed out on because of a difficult birth. With ds1 I has such high hopes, it was all going to be perfect, but actually, it was a very fast labour and then he got stuck during 3rd stage and I ended up with an emergency CS. I felt like I had failed and definitely had mild PND for a while afterwards. I should have got help, but didn't. What I wanted to say is that the article you have linked to is horseshit, your birth experience only affects you and you child in a negative way if you let it fester - yes it is disappointing not to have followed you birth plan, but there is so much ahead for you and your baby, the birth is teeny, weeny part of what it is to be a mother. What I can say is that ds1, the baby I though I had failed somehow at 1 day old, is sitting beside me now age 14, feet on coffee table, and we're watching a movie. He is great, we're very close and he is healthy and happy. Interestingly, his younger brother, born at home in water, with barely a hand from the midwife (soft music, angels singing etc) is a much more restless soul who often drives me crackers.

So please seek help if you think you have PND, that will help a lot. But don't think it is somehow your fault for not being able to follow your birth plan. Take care.

One more thing, one thing I found helpful was going through my notes from birth one with a supervisor of midwives at the hospital, to understand what had happened a bit more. It sounds like you have loads on your plate at the moment, but perhaps it might be something you could consider if it would be helpful.

...and for every 'bad' induction story there will be another 'good' induction story. I had DS2 induced. I had a nice nights sleep, went into hospital had my waters broken and the injection at nine and gave birth before 9:45. I won't lie - it was a bit painful I screamed but it was bloody fantastic. I was so much less tired than I was with any of my three other births. Oh and DS2 has to have been the most laid back easy baby ever.

That woman is talking crappola.

That passage butternut quoted is a load of crap. I had a natural birth, felt NOTHING when DD was born, and developed awful PND. According to her logic, having had a natural birth I should have been awash with "golden, warm love"

Each woman and each birth are different. For every woman having a glorious natural birth, there's a woman who had every intervention under the sun who STILL feels on cloud nine. Equally, there are shellshocked, traumatised women after textbook births and complicated births.

To make such grand generalisations on the basis of her own personal experience is blinkered and arrogant.

BTW - have you checked out the authors qualifications. . Why would you trust her and not the doctors and midwives? They have lots of experience and specialist training - I'm not saying they are always right but I know who I would trust.