Too soft on DS?

[ButtercupSandwich]

Wise Mumsnetters, I need your advice.

Husband and I are having a debate about our DS who is coming up to 10.

One of us thinks he should be a bit more independent and responsible and the other does not.

More independence/responsibility in this case would mean the following...

1. a few basic chores - taking plates and cups out after meals and snacks, laying the table for dinner, putting washing in machine etc

2. not having all his homework corrected before he hands it in. Having some guidance with homework rather than often having the answers or ideas etc given to him by a parent.

3. saying hello and goodbye to relatives and guests when we/they visit.

4. turning lights off when leaving his room.

5. consequences for losing things such as helping to cover cost of replacement or chores

6. washing and showering without prompting.

7. ordering his own food in a cafe when he is with us.

Which one of us is being unreasonable? And please say if he should/could be doing some but not all of the above...

Thank you!

My 3 year old does a lot of this. Is there any reason this is all only becoming an issue now?

Yes, cereal in a bowl with adding milk is hardly ' making breakfast'. He can be making any type of breakfast tbh, teach him pancakes and eggs to start with.
My 4 year old can make blueberry muffins with ease now. I just put them in and out of the oven. This morning he mixed up Pancakes whilst I finished makeup ( knows how much milk/ egg/ flour etc to add), so I just took over once mixed to actually make them in pan

My 9 year old daughter does all of these things I don't think it's too much to ask of a 10 year old.

My dd is 10 and we expect her to do everything in your list. She doesn't always do it without being nagged reminded several many times, but we keep trying!

Hmm... providing he's NT, I'd say it was a reasonable list, the washing without prompting aside.

However DD (almost 10) is dyspraxic with processing issues and although she can do most of these things she does need prompting. She can't follow a series of instructions, for example - quite often even if I ask her to do one thing (fetch something from upstairs, for example) then she'll get upstairs and be completely stumped as to what it is she's meant to do next.

Of that list, she can do 1, 2, and 7 with a little prompting and 4 and 6 if constantly reminded. She knows to do 3 for herself, we are very hot on manners! 5 we try with but she really doesn't attach much value to possessions so it's a bit of a wasted effort telling her she'll have to replace it because she won't miss it, iyswim.

My 8 and 10 year old do all of these except the washing without prompting and putting washing in the machine. I think you are doing him a massive disservice if you don't expect him to do these things. People will think him rude and babyish and in all honesty spoilt. If you leave it til he is older to learn to do basic housework and look after himself he will probably be very resistant. Even now it would be a bigcchange to go from doing none of these things to all of them. I would phase ot in gradually and reward him for doing it.

Isn't this one taught at age 1?
3) saying hello and goodbye to relatives and guests when we/they visit

I would add that he should not be paid for doing basic self care and day to day chores like putting his dishes in the sink and cleaning or hoovering. That is just what needs doing in a family home. It is non negotiable and there is no monetary reward.

Thank you very much for all the comments.

DH insists on doing all these things for him and thinks that I am being harsh by encouraging DS to do them. I think he's making DS babyish. Until about a year ago he was still putting DS's Pjs on for him.

In particular, the homework having so much input from Dad is not a good thing and leaves DS's teachers with an inaccurate view of his strengths and weaknesses.

The whole situation needs sorting out, as many have said.

Thank you all for making me feel that my expectations are not unreasonable. I can now show DH this thread!

Don't understand why you would correct his homework ?! It's a tool for the teacher to assess what he understands - it's not a matter of getting it right particularly if it's only right because an adult is doing it for him

agree that all of this would be normal expectations of a much younger child

Apart from no's 5 and 6 my 7 year old does all of those things, including recently getting his own breakfast at weekends, when there is time for him to faff about. Your DH is doing your DS no favours. He will presumably be a secondary school soon, where he will be expected to take responsibility for himself. I can see that causing him problems if he is used to having everything done for him!

Re number 2: kids shouldn't have homework corrected before handing in. The teacher uses the homework to ascertain what the child has retained and what needs more teaching. They would be very surprised by homework always being perfect - it could also lead them to spend time revising and practising the wrong things for your child as they haven't got an accurate idea of what they've remembered/can do already.

DH insists on doing all these things for him and thinks that I am being harsh by encouraging DS to do them. I think he's making DS babyish.

IMO, he is! If good basic life skills aren't instilled from quite a young age, those skills do not become habitual. Functioning like a normal person just won't come naturally to him! Rather than doing these things as a matter of course, he'll have to be constantly reminded, probably into adulthood and the very basics of living competently and looking after himself, will be very hard work.

(For different reasons, I wasn't taught good life skills, so I might be projecting but it is quite possible your ds will have those future problems too.)

Until about a year ago he was still putting DS's Pjs on for him.

I would judge a parent who's child did not do all of those things by the age of ten.

IMO it is neglectful parenting to not give or teach your child independence.

Also, tell your DH that your DS's teachers will know he helps DS with the homework and therefore it will be useless to them in terms of helping to assess him.

I think it was on mn that I read 'a parent should never do something for their child that the child is able to do themselves'

My nearly 9yo has to be dragged to the shower though but otherwise is independent in getting dressed, ready for school, remembering what stuff she needs, getting her own breakfast, asking for things in a polite manner, taking her plate out.

She needs some input in getting homework done though.

The book 'how to talk so your kids will listen..' might be a good one for your dh to read!!

Re: homework, if they really have no clue I think its fine to help them beforehand so that they aren't practicing mistakes and they do a proper job - but then you should leave them to it.

If this is happening regularly you probably need to talk to the teacher.

If you aren't prompting something like washing, I think you need to be clear about when you expect it to happen - for everyone's sake...

My DS is 9 and has SN and does everything on your list (albeit with perhaps a bit more prompting and reminding than an NT child).

Is there a reason your DH is like this? Did he have a difficult childhood, or was he the eldest of a long line of siblings and had to do a lot of the looking after? Or is that how his mother treated him?

There has to be some underlying reason, surely?

As you are going to show your dh this thread I will post the list of what my just turned 11 year old is expected to do.

Shower every morning without being told
Make breakfast
Cycle to school (he is in year 6)
Come home, let himself in, make drink and snack, start homework/reading.
Older Dcs get home about 20 minutes later
Ds2 then walks the dog whilst the other 2 do their jobs ie hoovering/laundry etc
Pack his school bag for the next day, so any PE kit, homework etc
We cook dinner on a rota basis. He can cook basic meals and my Dd helps him on his day. If not his day, he will set the table and clear the table after dinner
Clean his football boots and get kit ready for after school training
Feed the cat and dog
Leave the bathroom clean after using- that's a rule for everyone

I would be horrified if he didn't say hello and goodbye to visitors
All the Dcs have made their own drinks since they could reach the tap/fridge.
Ds2 started making tea/coffee I think when he was 9 and basic good manners in the house States whoever is making a drink offers the others

He orders his own food. If he left his water in the bath he would be sent upstairs immediately to empty and wash out the bath

These are my expectations of my almost 6year old ds, he almost always achieves them.

Mine are 7, 9 and 12 and are supposed to do all of this.

I think it is quite a moderate list (depending on how many chores)

But not much of it actually happens without prompting, and sometimes the prompting leads to arguments.

We persist because it isn't only about independence, it is about part of my job as a parent is teaching them life skills. When he leaves home, he needs to know how to take care of his personal hygiene, feed himself and know the basics eg how a washing machine works.

You could leave it until he is, say 15 and then try and introduce it, but teenagers aren't know for their helpfulness!! Much batter to have it as part of daily life now.

All totally reasonable and normal expectations and ref: the homework being checked, it's positively unhelpful to him for you to check it first! More responsibility needed.

just wanted to add a separate note about homework. If in doubt look at school's homework policy. Most schools would expect the following:

provide quiet space for homework
make a time for homework and turn off screens
leave dc to it.
check it is done.

If dc do have questions, or need any significant input, adult should make a note on the homework - needed help with xx on this.

It isn't doing your ds or the school any favours if dh does the homework for him.

My only exception to this is construction projects which often need a second pair of hands or a timely suggestion to get ideas into construction

Apart from washing unprompted (a cattle prod is a good investment to get unwilling teens both into and out of a shower), i would have expected your child to have been doing these things for several years, especially where manners are concerned. I was always pleased to hear that the teachers thought my DC were well mannered, but horrified that it was so unusual that it required to be commented upon.

I did help DD2 with spelling during her homework, but she is very dyslexic, so handing her a dictionary was of no use at all! My DC knew that homework was their responsibility from the word go and if they didn't do it, they took the flack! Your DS is running the risk of being one of those useless men who is unable to do anything for himself and you run the risk of him never leaving home!

All sounds v reasonable, apart perhaps from the having to cover the cost of things lost - I think that depends on how the things get lost, iyswim. I teach in a busy secondary school, and kids lose things a lot, and some get really anxious about getting in trouble at home over it, and part of me thinks it's not really their fault - it should be ok to leave something somewhere and it to be there when you eventually go back for it!
I'm a terrible loser of stuff, though, so perhaps I'm over-sensitive about this. My possessions just seem to get scattered throughout my working day, and however hard I try I can't seem to keep on top of it. And maybe if my parents had fined me for it when I was younger, I wouldn't be so bad now!