Dare i raise the question....

[CharlotteACavatica]

who has let their kids have the MMR? how do you feel about it? Ihave a 6yo a 3.5yo and a 1yo and my 1yo dd is due to have hers next week, i havent let the other two have theirs and neither shall i be letting dd, but as so many people know its 'supposed' problems im still interogated and asked why why why? i have heard that the more patients your gp gets to have the MMR the more he/she gets paid, if they get 100% they get a shed load of money but if the percentage drops below 90 they start getting charged!!!????

no, I don't see any hectoring or lecturing either. just some strongly held opinions on both sides and some personal experiences being shared.
in fact there are a number of different conversations taking place which don't relate to individual choices at all, but to the wisdom or otherwise of mass immunisation.
there is nothing wrong with debate, even of sensitive issues. I always learn something, if you manage to keep an open mind you can always learn something

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" But why is it that measles was considered to be (generally) a common childhood illness at one time?" Because it was common before vaccination.

"Well the best research on that is the stuff that Aloha knows about." Surely, it must be in the public domain by now? Even I know Aloha hasn't been around for quite some time.

"the wisdom or otherwise of mass immunisation."

OK, since we are debating this, something else I don't get (besides the basis for the so-called over-loading of the immune system, still no reply) is why non-vaccinators don't want more children to be vaccinated? Unless they actively want their child to become ill, then they must rely on others being vaccinated and not passing on the disease.

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"I used to be hugely pro vaccination myself as well. That's something that people don't realise on here." JJ2, totally new image for me. I feel v humbled.

"Yes but it was not considered a killer disease was it? " Wasn't it? I thought we all refer to the fact that measles can cause death based on old examples as no-one has seen it nowadays.

" That pov would assume you have a "vaccination is holy cow" pov cristina." Expand please if you have the time.

this thread keeps moving on too fast every time i try and read it.

I have a question for jimjams though, as you seem to know what you're talking about!

I haven't had ds vaccinated with MMR, although he did have his earlier baby jabs as at that point I wasn't aware that they were potentially risky too.

He does seem to have problems if he has too mcuh wheat in his diet, but aside frm that I have no reason to believe that he has gut problems or is otherwise susceptible to risks frm MMR.

So, my question is, if you had an apparently healthy child (like ds) would you give him the MMR or go for singles?

also, are ALL jabs thimerosol free now?

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I would not get to hung up of the gp getting more money or now!
MY 3 have had theirs and younger 2 will also, just as their older brother, get their boosters when it's time!
I know it may not prtect them 100%, but the more of us that do it, the less the likelyhood they gonna contract it!
I do get peed off at parents that chose not to have their Kids done...I see this this way, afterall, I am taking the small risk of the vacination having a negative effect (and I do realise there are risks to this) for my Kids but also for society, as I do believe in herd immunisation, so, to me, peaople that don'tvaccinate (unless there is a medical reason for this) take the mick, as they make me risk my loved ones, in the hope that theirs will be protected without taking the risk themselfs!
I know this is harsh, but it does annoy me that a desease like Measles still exists...when it could have been over and done with soooo sooo many years ago!

Socci - so do you truly think then that vaccinations are not effective? Based on what?

I find it hard to believe that anyone vaccinates their child for the good of the rest of society.

my child's welfare comes first to me, and I would not risk him getting an incurable disease just so other people didn't get something.

Christina, there have been recent measles deaths, sadly usually children that are unable to be vaccined due to health reasons and low immunity full stop...so, it still kills, it's not about avoiding it justin healthy children 9although there are late problems with the brain aswell if contracting a weird strain of wild measles which are tougher then "housemeasles")....so, the owrk should be to avoid the desease even breaking out in the first place!

I don't necessarily consider a mild desease, I must add! I have seen measles victims that have then had menigitis and were braindamaged for teh rest of their lifes...and what this did to their family, a close family friend actually took her life by hanging herself..so, yes I probably am effected by this, as I was only a child when that happened!

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This is a really interesting thread - it's always difficult to decipher the intended 'tone' of posts, but I don't think there's any hectoring going on...

Anyhow, my reason for Unlurking is to ask how people have conducted their research into MMR in order to reach a conclusion. My DD is 9 months tomorrow, and I feel ashamedly ignorant about the MMR jab. Obviously I have several months in which to inform myself, and I fear it may take all of this time to do so , but I have no idea where I should start looking, aside from Google.

Surely most 'evidence' that I will find on the net will be skewed heavily one way or the other, how can I tell what is reliable, unbiased, non-commercial, non-political?

I'm willing to put in some hours, but I'm also rather cynical about the quality of information I might find. If only my DH was a research doctor!

the only way to stop it completely though is to eradicate it worldwide.

TB was once eradicated in the UK. now it's back with a vengeance.

If I remember correctly, the incidence of measles dropped by around 90 % prior to the introduction of the measles vaccine. This is the case with so many other diseases which medics claim have been irradicated, or nearly irradicated, as a result of vaccination programmes. In reality they've just run their course.

Scarlet fever ran its course before they had the chance to get a vaccine in place and pat themselves on the back.

hairy

All boys who are vaccinated against rubella are effectivly being 'done' to help to protect the PG woman who don't have antibodies to rubella IYSWIM.

Rubella isn;t going to do the boys any harm

Spider, you have to be vaey careful with those stats though because measels has always been a cyclical thing

scarelt fever has attentuated over the years....I don';t think there has ever been a scarlet fever vaccination, has there? (confused emoticon)

cristina, you know i love you and you saved my life with your book recommendation.

I am firmly with spidermama on the vax debate.

i do not condemn anyone for vaccinating.

i question myself all the time but come down (still) on the side of feeling that vaccination does more harm then good in a first world country with good nutrition, hygiene etc.

I really believe that the best way to health is to be healthy, to eat well, sleep well, be loved and love and excercise.

dh has a strong history of autoimmune conditions such as eczema and asthma in his family and that swayed my decision not to vaccinate ds at all (thus far, he is nearly 3).

the final nail in the coffin though, was when thimerosal was withdrawn and the way that that was managed by the government (nothing to do with safety concerns, honest guv). i thank god that ds has not had vaccinations containing that known toxin. that confirmed my belief that vaccination is indeed a medical and governmental holy cow regardless of the damage it may do.

the fact that i torture myself with this all the time and revisit the decision with dh regularly is an indicator of how hard choosing not to vaccinate is.

i hear what you're saying about no 'cast iron' evidence. but i do believe that many of the fundamental tenets of western medicine are iatrogenic.

ds is so healthy and has never had one of the mysterious hospitalisations with unknown strange viruses that so so many of my friends kids have had. i don't know if that is fluke. i don't want anything but the best for my son and have made my decision based yes in large part on gut feeling, confirmed by reading.