Dare i raise the question....

[CharlotteACavatica]

who has let their kids have the MMR? how do you feel about it? Ihave a 6yo a 3.5yo and a 1yo and my 1yo dd is due to have hers next week, i havent let the other two have theirs and neither shall i be letting dd, but as so many people know its 'supposed' problems im still interogated and asked why why why? i have heard that the more patients your gp gets to have the MMR the more he/she gets paid, if they get 100% they get a shed load of money but if the percentage drops below 90 they start getting charged!!!????

3andnomore. Wakefileds paper described a new condition (or at least newly discovered condition). Autistic enterocolitis. It was not a study examining the safety of the MMR. It was a study describing a particular gut pathology. It is perfectly acceptable to use a small number of patients to do that.

Other studies using millions of children haven't even tested the right hypothesis (they've tested whether MMR is reponsible for the whole rise in autism when no-one has suggested it is- only that its triiggering autism in a particualr subset).

Numbers don't come into it, its what you do with it that matters.

Your post is hard to follow, JimJams, but I think we are all entitled to debate it if we want to without appearing callous or uncaring.

JJ we agree on this one then
"I'm fairly certain I could fight my corner on any website if I could be bothered. I have a PhD in Biology after all, I might come to different interpretations of current work, but my thesis is only that a small number of suscpetible children have been damaged. It's not wild, I'm not calling for the entire vaccination program to be shut down. "

I am absolteuly bnot disputing there are cases that are either vaccine or measles damged (by vaccine, iykwim)...it wold be lovely though to know which people would be in the risk category and which are not, to klnow, if you know what I mean, then this whole argument wouldn't stand would it! (Well, I hope so anywya)

"they've tested whether MMR is reponsible for the whole rise in autism when no-one has suggested it is- only that its triiggering autism in a particualr subset"

But every website and anti-vaccination stance you read does in fact suggest exactkly that, that MMR causes autism. You may see it differently because you're read enough into it but thousands of people out there making their informed decision haven't.

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My post was in response to this one: "anyway, there is lots of stuff on the badscience website, I'd be very interested if you could find your corner there, effectlively or would they have plenty of researched showing the errors in your ways as they tend too"

suggesting I went to the badscience website to debate.

I was merely pointing out that this is way more than an intellectual debate for me.

Anyway. I am mindful of a lovely post that mb wrote once - I hope she knows which one- and I am retiring.

I know that, Socci. Not in his original study. he did so, in a roundabout way, in a conference afterwards. But if you read into this thread and all the others on the tiopic before it, people say again and again that MMR causes autism and that's why they don't vaccinate. Most people, others have other reasons.

Yes 3andnomore- agreed. If there was a way of identifying those at risk I would be very happy indeed. That's all I've tried to do in my family. I know ds2 and ds3 share 50% of their genetic material with their brother. I know that ds3 is definitely high risk, and I try to keep up wiith the (very complicated- too complicated for me) biochemistry of autism,a nd then just try to assess the risks. Which will change with age anyway.

BTW...no wakefields study didn't question the MMR , because it atakce actively the measles component of the vaccine while he develooped his single vaccine, but, like I mentioned before , so, anyone could get this, at this time, as it si not prove to be vtriple vacc was the cause, afterall, his study was ratehr minor, like 11 cases all in all! Anyway, there is a measle problem any which way you look, you vacc single or triple or you don't...of course if everyone would vacc then only those few would have probs and the rest is fine, if no one vaxxes all those would have probs and then is all those otehr lae measle comlications, etc... to think off!

Socci, but it is indeed what they all say, that Dr Wakefield foungd the "missing" link between autism and mmr..and that is why so many people, not everyone of course, decides against vaccination!And that link has been, over and over, said to be non existent or a very minor risk to be existent!

sorry about mys spelling, it gets worse the more tired I get! Hope you understand anyway what I am saying! lol! NIte nite!

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The worst offenders for peddling the "wakefield believes that MMR has caused the rise in autism" (when he has said repeatedly that that is not his hypothesis at all) is the likes of Taylor et al who publish papers "proving" the error of this assumption (which has never been made). the publication of these papers is usually accompanied by some sort of fanfare from the dept of health. Which suggests that either they are being deliberately misleading, ro that they don't understand that someone saying "a subgrourp of suscpetible children may ahve been investigated" is not the same as saying MMR has caused the rise in autism.

Either way I find it hardly instils confidence.

affected, not investigated. I'm tired. 3rd night in a row of 4 hours sleep. I'm off to bed.

"who are "they"? " Who are the "they" in "they"?

webpages like informed Parents etal...like to claim it or a conncetion at least!

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as usual coming into this thread late and behind everyone else. don't have any links to posts or examples of papers i've read , i only have my own experience .
My ds1 had his first immunisations at 8 weeks old. I was pro- immunisation and had no doubt about him recieving his jabs.
However within 24 hours of having this first set of jabs he was covered from head to toe in eczema. Gp poo pooed any connection with jabs and i refused to allow any further injections. I was referred to a very sensible and kind immunologist who reassured me that " of course it was connected to the jabs!". i wasn't being over anxious or silly.
ds then had all his jabs in small doses and split up as much as possible. he had blood tests to see what had worked- and a surprising amount of the jabs didn't work. he was about 4 before he finished having his immunsiations.he ad single mm and r . ds2 went through the same process. He however had the mmr because the immunologist wasn't able to provide singles and we wanted him looked after by the doctor we had seen since their birth. luckily he was fine.
i don't think anyone has a right to shout down anyone elses decisions on such a personal subject. everyone does the best for their child as they see it. the best for my children was not to ignore my instincts and feelings.

DS is fully vaccinated. DD isn't.

In theory I am totally 'FOR' immunisation. However, DD has shown that she is very sensitive to drugs. She is allergic to penecillin and had a severe adverse reaction the the NZ Meningitis B vaccination. Although she has had her baby vaccinations I cannot bring myself to have her vaccinated with MMR. It is a worry, I want her to have it but my concern is that if she has a reaction I cannot 'undo' it IYSWIM?

She is 2.8 and seriously 'overdue' but I just can't seem to make the plunge. I hate being in this situation ... but there you go.

Separate MMR vax are not available in NZ at all, not even privately.

great post cursedmummy. ghosty, i sympathise!!!!