Bedtimes a nightmare 2 children, 3 and 6

[pookamoo]

We just can't get them to settle down. They are like lunatics after bedtime and the calm mummy and daddy bit only goes so far before we shout.

They share a room, we have a good routine. The routine now goes as far as story and kisses, then falls to pieces! Running about, shouting, screaming, turning lights on, bouncing on the bed....

DH and I are at the end of out tethers and it is ruining every evening. As soon as poor DH gets in from work, this is what he is faced with every night!

Somebody please help?

Have you tried keeping the 6 year old up for a bit? One parent could do some reading with them while the other settles the 3 year old.

Yes, but DH doesn't usually get in til 7, by which time DD1 is hanging! and foul

The routine is usually this:

5pm dinner time, into the bath by 6pm.
Out of the bath and teeth cleaned, PJs on etc by 6.30.
Half an hour or so of stories, cuddles, DD1 doing her reading in bed - often she will read one story to me and DD2, and I will read one to both of them. We have a little quiet chat about the day sometimes.
Lights out at 7.

Well, that's the theory.

DD2 is just 3, and we have been trying to drop her afternoon nap for the last year. She really struggles by teatime, and often falls asleep on the school run, which totally stymies bedtime. A 10 minute nap any time in the day and she is awake until 10pm. Even when she hasn't had a nap in the day she finds it really, really hard to settle down. This is even without her sister trying to wind her up just for fun.

DD1 is actually nearly 6, and just started year 1. She is exhausted from her new school routine, and really benefits from a good night's sleep. She alternates between settling nicely and inventing every reason under the sun to get up, and wind her sister up. She sometimes suffers from DD2 trying to peel her eyes open when she is trying to sleep! She is definitely ready for bed at 7.

Do bath then dinner.
Bath always refreshes them and wakes them up.
Actually - it isn't necessary to bath them both every night. Consider a top and tail wash alternate nights.

Bath/wash. PJs and give them dinner wearing large bibs or aprons.

Then clean teeth, do stories.

Whichever one is more tired goes up to bed first, the other one watches a DVD for a few minutes.

I had 2 years between my 2 and this was the only way to cope.
Bath time would over excite them and get them all wound up.
My 5 year old was exhausted after school.

Sometimes it isn't possible to do a story every night, so DS1 would go to bed with a story tape (CDs now), while little one stayed downstairs until jios brother was asleep.

My DH was never home before 8pm, so I always had to do the evening routine myself. I found it much easier if he didn't come home until they were settled, because daddy arriving just as they were nodding off was a total disaster.

Soothing classical music calms everybody down, or try one of those relax/drift away CDs that are used in spas.

With 3 year old and no naps, I find a dose of cbeebies or DVD before school run, with a snack, helps tide over the worst of tiredness. And if they are flaking before bed, separate them, cbeebies or story tape/cd for elder one while littler gets into bed and asleep.

Is it too early? I have a nearly 3 and nearly 6 year old and they're just not ready for bed by 7. We start about 7, don't do bath everynight (too hard on my own, had to cut corners somewhere) in bed by 7.30 ish but oldest one reads for about 10 mins.

They don't have a bath every night. By "bath" I mean a wash and teeth - it could be a bath or top and tail.

We don't have a TV. I am against screen time at bedtime, sorry. When we've put iPlayer on for them, we get hysterics when it goes off.

Right now DD2 is in hysterics screaming, DH is up there trying to persuade her to stay in her bed, she wants to camp out on the floor, but of course she is so tired she keeps falling over the blanket etc. It is her way of trying to prolong things, but she went up for wash and teeth at 5.45 while DD1 was being wonderful and doing her homework (writing 5 sentences) downstairs in the quiet. DD2 had a story and settled into bed playing quietly with dolly, then I brought DD1 up after she did her homework.

All descended into madness, DH came home half way through, and thus bedtime has been going on in our house since 5.45 and DH are arguing with eachother now because we just want to get on with our evening!

"I WANT MUMMY!!!!" right now, but if I go, it will be "I WANT DADDY!!!!"
She's exhausted! She was rubbing her eyes at 5.30 and even said she was tired!

Last week I even resorted to putting her in her PJs before collecting DD1 from tea at a friends and driving the long way home so she would fall asleep!

See stripy some people told me to bring bedtime forward because she wasn't settling at 7, i.e. going up at 7, then other people say it's too late!

I am at a loss and it is not doing anyone any good.

Sorry to keep posting on this thread, but I am getting really upset now. She is hysterical, I know DH is cudlding her, but also know how upsetting it is for him. MNing the process this evening is sort of helping me a bit, although I'm not sure I will find an answer - I have tried a LOT of things over the last 18 months with DD2 and bedtime!

In a minute, DH is going to lose patience and give up. She is still screaming.

I don't have a 6 year old but I have a few ideas if you don't mind? Feel free to discount them of course

Could your 3 yo be overstimulated? Could you try changing the daytime activities around at all?

Could you try settling the 3 yo in your bedroom and then transferring her when asleep? So settle separately - maybe 6yo has story cd and book in her bedroom while you settle 3 yo, then story and cuddle with 6 yo, then transfer 3yo?

To be honest if it has got to the screaming stage I would be taking my 3 yo back downstairs for a warm milk, radio 4 droning, little interaction time and a cuddle, to switch it out a bit. But then that's what works for mine when she has passed that point!

My four year old can be clearly tired, but find it hard to wind down and sleep. Sometimes we let him play / read by himself in his room (all ready for bed) and then come and tell us when he is ready for lights off and sleep. It might mean he goes to bed a bit later, but it seems to make him calmer and sleep better overall. Might be worth a try?

Your DH should stay out of the way tbh as he might be winding them up with excitement at him being home.

Are you leaving them to settle themselves?

This might be an issue. I would sit with them - the goal is to get them to sleep at this stage. Try a shorter routine, lights out at 645 then be very boring. Sit in the room and pop them back into bed. Once they get the new rules, you can work on leaving them.

All and any ideas gratefully received, busty Anything new we can try will be a bonus.

She has gone quiet now, by the way.

Today we had toddler group until 11, then we came home, had lunch and did housework/played sylvanians [guess who did which? ] She watched an episode of sesame street while I phoned the bank, then we went to get DD1 from school. She had a snack in the car, then the two girls did something quiet in the playroom I am not sure what! while I made tea, they ate just after 5. Maybe we could do something really quiet together after school if I prepare tea earlier, so it's ready when we get in?

I am pretty sure DH has settled her in our bedroom, judging from the footsteps. Would she ever get the idea of sleeping in her own bed if we did that? I'm happy if she comes in to us in the night, we have a big enough bed, but I would really love it if she could be cuddled down in her own bed and just sleep! She did it for my mum when she was babysitting, so I know she can do it, it just feels like DH and I are being a bit crap at it!

That's sort of what we do with our 3 yo lizard - if she's over tired and over wrought there is no point in persisting ! So we go for calm boring time downstairs and a few cuddles and often she falls asleep on the sofa within minutes. Try to keep her upstairs and you get a tantrum or wailing that persists beyond midnight. No brainer!

lizard that's when she peels her sister's eyes open.

My 3 year old dd went through a not settling phase. It passed but one thing stood out from what you've been saying.
When she tried to get up she wasn't persuaded to stay in bed, she stayed by herself or she was gently but firmly held there. There's no reasoning with a tired 3 year old she needs to know you mean business.

I agree with BustyCraphopper

If there is any way at all you can separate them until both are asleep, do it.

Mine are about this age, I put the 3 year old down at about 7.15 and the 5 year ols down about 7.30. Could you put the 3 year old down, story and settled, get the 6 year old into pyjamas down stairs and do story down there, and explain that she needs to go to bed very quietly as her sister is already tucked up?

Reading your post about your day, one thing that struck me is that you write about what she did/you did - and other than toddler group and meals they are not the same things?

I used to have terrible troubles with my now 3 yo not sleeping, not going to sleep, terrible tantrums etc until I got some help in which changed all that in a week. All I do now is make sure I have given her 10 minutes of focused child led play a day. So she calls the shots for those 10 minutes. Today we played dinosaur hide and seek

I'm really not trying to criticise, and maybe you've just left it out, but have you played with her today for a length if time while giving her your full attention? I know I don't at toddler group as I like to chat etc. Just a thought?

If I bring her downstairs she perks up and runs about. She would just stay up to 10pm, when she would have a hysterical tantrum. We tried it for a while and it just meant a different kind of no evening. We seem to have 2 options:

1: One of us stays upstairs doing whatever it is that has to be done, be it cuddling up for 2 hours until she goes to sleep or putting her back in bed 40 million times - and I WISH she would get used to the routine but she never seems to, or

2: She is downstairs acting like it isn't bedtime, entertaining herself and pottering about until she melts down and we go back to 1.

Either way, it has been a long, long time since DH and I spent an evening together properly.

Radio 4 is actually on right now, busty! :)

Another here with a 6 & 3 year old. I know what you mean about the naps, honestly just 5 mins in the car at anytime during the day and it's no sleep before 9 at least.
Mine are thankfully now both asleep (i always have to sit in DD's bedroom until she's asleep though) Good luck OP

I used to put the youngest one to sleep in our bedroom, then transferred into bedroom with brother when we went to bed.

Divide and conquer is what I say