Bedtimes a nightmare 2 children, 3 and 6

[pookamoo]

We just can't get them to settle down. They are like lunatics after bedtime and the calm mummy and daddy bit only goes so far before we shout.

They share a room, we have a good routine. The routine now goes as far as story and kisses, then falls to pieces! Running about, shouting, screaming, turning lights on, bouncing on the bed....

DH and I are at the end of out tethers and it is ruining every evening. As soon as poor DH gets in from work, this is what he is faced with every night!

Somebody please help?

busty I don't take it as a criticism at all, it's very helpful!

We played sylvanians together, and she polished the doors when I was dusting. I do have laryngitis and barely any voice (hence why I had to keep her quiet when on the phone) but I certainly take your point! Dinosaur hide and seek sounds fab! Often I have to be a cat.

DH has gone up to bed now, he is grumpy. Too many sad faces on my posts today!

Hmm ok so downstairs boringness not an option then! I go back to the separate bedrooms then transfer plan. Maybe settle the 6 yo in your bed if you think that's less likely to result in unwanted cosleeping?

Oh the laryngitis point was about toddler group. Usually she likes me to read the same stories as last week for most of the session but I couldn't do it today, so her friend's mum had the honours! We did do sticking and glueing, though, and gloopy stuff made out of cornflour.

Good idea about putting DD1 in our bed. Sometimes she slopes off there anyway if her sister is being a pest or too loud.

Do you have another room of any sort?
Even a tiny box room with a gate across the doorway and a mattress on the floor would be fine.

I know it sounds bad, but I could never have put my 2 in the same room at this age, it would have been pandemonium.
Once they were 7 and 5 they shared a room happily (bunk beds).

Ds 2 was happy in his little room - there was nothing in there that could hurt him, but he couldn't get out!

Is DH good at being calm and boring?

I ask because mine was hopeless. He would just get them over excited and wound up.

Sounds like you had a perfectly lovely day :)

Dunno then other than divide and conquer!

MN heresy but we allowed DD2 at this age to stay downstairs with us until she fell asleep. We would then carry her up to bed when she was sound asleep. We also allowed the DCs to come into our bed if they woke in the night.

It all stopped naturally and the DCs went on to form good sleep habits when they were old enough.

It sounds like your DD1 is ready to go to bed but DD2 isnt.

My 2 DDs were the same age gap. At that age mine had different bed times. They had bath together then dd2 would be put to bed while dd1 went downstairs. Dd2 was usually so tired that she'd fall asleep very quickly after a quick story.
I'd them have about half an hour alone with dd2, which was lovley, then we would creep upstairs and she would go to bed.

Have you spoken to them during the day, and said that their behaviour isn't on? If not I'd do it tomorrow and let them know that things are going to change as they need their sleep and mum and dad need some quiet time

Sorry, I type too slowly, I didnt see your update about staying up with you.

How about putting DD2 to settle in your bed then move her to her own bed when you go to bed? Which is easier to move when asleep? DD1 or DD2?

DD1 is probably easier to move when asleep, she weighs a ton but it would be worth it!

I think tomorrow we will have a chat about it.

A little while ago I photographed their bedtime routine, with the idea of making a storybook type thing for DD2 to help her appreciate what comes next.
I took a photo of them eating tea, then going upstairs, then with silly hair in the bath, then the PJs on the bed, then of her cleaning her teeth, then her with hair brushed, then reading a story, and lastly one of her asleep. I am going to order the prints NOW so I can see if it helps - maybe she just doesn't really know what is supposed to come next?

That's a really good idea. Make sure you have DD1 in there too, showing her sleeping with her eyelids closed and no one trying to open them!

Hmm I did a bedtime story book thing - I just did crating drawings though not photos. I think it did help a bit, maybe.

The potty training one didn't seem to have any affect though :(

Good luck!

Crayon not crating !

I can't find the camera!

When it all goes to pot in our house we just put them to sleep in different rooms - I don't think it's necessarily anything you are doing, there just seems to be phases of a few months with ours where they are all out of sync and it's easier seperately.

Another thing you could try perhaps is having a set routine of when DH is involved that doesn't change day to day? So you do all the nighttime routine, everyone tucked up and in bed, you go downstairs and then when DH is back he comes up and reads one (be strict!) extra story and says good night. On days where he is around in the evening he can do the washing up while you do bedtime, or if you think they'll cope with the change swap roles exactly.

I was in a similar situation but mine are 8 and 4, bedtime was driving me nuts and we all exhausted and grumpy.

My solution (although only a week in so it could all go wrong!) was a bit like your story book idea; I printed a little schedule for each of them like this :

Dd(4)
6.30 bath
7pm pjs on
7.15 play quietly
7.30 story
7.40 cuddle
7.50 sleep

Ds (8)
6.30 play quietly
7.15 shower
7.30 reading
8.25 cuddle
8.30 sleep

Each action has got a clip art picture next to it as a visual reminder, if they follow the routine they get a tick on the reward chart; we also have a morning checklist for which they can earn a tick; each tick is worth 10p, so 10 ticks = a pack of match attax/frozen cards.

I just feel that the evenings have been calmer because it's clear what should be happening when, and if dh comes in halfway through he knows what should he happening; it also means that they each get a bit of time to themselves and the scheduled cuddle means a bit of mummy time.

Ask me in a week and it might not be working, but so far so good!

DS(4) was the longest to keep coming into our bed at night. We never wanted to say he couldnt come into our bed if he was frightened in his own bed.

Something which worked for him was having a consequence (not punishment) for coming into our bed. We would say that he could come into our bed but that the next day he would be tired so wouldnt be able to play out with his friend.

This was a known consequence, come into our bed or play out with his friend the next day.

Is there something you could use as a consequence for your DD2? A small treat which is foregone the following morning.

Mine are the same age. In extreme circs where the little one is keeping the big one awake, I move one of them out and into our bed. Tbh though, I have always been a dragon about bedtimes and they know that if I have to come up more than once to sort them out then there is always hell to pay. So maybe better consequences for dicking around after lights out?

gnome I really don't mind her coming into our bed during the night, it's the settling down at bedtime that causes issues.

myfanwy how do they earn their tick for falling asleep at 8.30, because then they are asleep? We tried a chart for smooth running bedtimes in the summer, but it didn't work because they don't get the tick/sticker at the same time as doing the action (going to sleep). Waiting 'til the morning "for last night" didn't work because she didn't remember what had happened the night before.

elport chuck me a list of your consequences? please?

So far getting the ticks in the morning is working, but I do find reward charts hit or miss; at the moment it is enough to say remember you'll get a tick if you go to sleep nicely.

I do think it's more though that we all know what the plan is, although you did say you've always had a good routine, so might not be such a novelty as it is in our house because our routine was a bit vague so seemed to always descend into chaos!

Having the visual routine (stuck to their bedroom door!) is proving successful.

Pooka, the main consequence is separating them to different bedrooms, which they hate as they have always shared and are very close. Dicking around in the run up to bedtime runs the risk of 'no story'. Sometimes if they are really hyper one of them has to have some time on the step to calm right down before being tucked in. Bedtime is one of my big things and always has been so tbh we don't have many issues now as they know the drill.

I agree with busty craphopper. If I get in the bath with my toddler DD, or have 15 mins "tickle chase" before bath, it makes her feel like we've played and she goes to sleep. I also have had success going through a list of what we've done that day before sleep, i.e. "you've had a lovely day: first you had weetabix with daddy, then you....etc." Poor you, I feel for you.

Also my friend had success putting the kids more in charge and being slacker. I.e. have a big glass of wine and ask them now what, pyjamas? story? etc. Let them turn light off themselves.

It also sounds to me like they are hyped by dad coming home.

pookamoo, sorry late back to this thread.

I didnt mean that you had a problem with your DD coming into your bed. What I was trying to do was give an example of something which was part of the whole sleep subject which we had resolved with consequences for the behaviour we ultimately wanted to change.

For us it was important that we didnt punish as we felt that would escalate things. The consequence was a fairly small thing. DS wasnt being punished we just said that he would be too tired to play out if he had come into our bed the night before. Okay not exactly truthful but something DS could understand.

Another thought - have you tried your DDs with story tapes/CDs? My DCs loved these from a very earlyt age and would happily go to bed to listen to a story.

Could this help with the consequences? Go to bed quietly and have a mummy story, a daddy story and a story tape. Any messing around then no story tape as she wont be able to concentrate on the story.