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Original poster

What is normal and what is emotional abuse?

55 replies

Lovedandexhausted · 05/10/2014 20:29

I am not talking about shouting to parent/ for safety etc.

When you lose your temper and shout what is normal and what is emotional abuse - as in emotional abuse that would harm your child and their future happiness?

Some days I feel all I do is comment with obvious disappointment and exasperation. Shout for no real reason frequently and shame my dd. Show obvious annoyance. The shouting is very loud. I dont often shout swears or insults but I frequently say "for f**ks sake!" in an exasperated tone. I sometimes ask questions I know she cant answer with obvious anger and sarcasm "Why are you doing this???" and sometimes I say awful things "Why do you have to ruin everything? " "Why do you have to be such a horrible child?" "Stop being so annoying!" On very bad days I might shout 5-10 times a day. On a good day not at all. What is really normal?

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mipmop · 05/10/2014 22:50

After reading your last comment, do you think that maybe your standards are very high? I can't remember where, but I read something about parents who are trying their best to do all the things you describe, and eventually react this way. It's like someone never having a break, and I know it's hard to have one if your toddler is constantly asking questions and doesn't play independently much. But if your toddler is focused on something then enjoy the break. Or have a ready meal or whatever to give yourself a break. Have an early night and ignore the housework, that sort of thing. My other thought is PMS.

Btw you've just reminded me to re-read that book.

Original poster
Lovedandexhausted · 05/10/2014 22:51

No I am a single parent. I don't have any time for myself anyway so this stuff makes my life easier

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Original poster
Lovedandexhausted · 05/10/2014 22:52

Was it in Dr Sears Fussy Baby Book by any chance?

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mipmop · 05/10/2014 22:55

I am a single parent too. I had a high-needs baby, now age 3, who co-sleeps etc. Age 2 can be overwhelming. It'll get easier.

mipmop · 05/10/2014 22:58

I haven't read that book but may have spotted it in their website.
Do you have the book by Margot Sutherland "what every parent needs to know"? I am sure she said something similar. I'll try to find a link...

Original poster
Lovedandexhausted · 05/10/2014 23:01

Thank you I will buy it, right now I just feel like giving her away to someone who can look after her better than me

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mipmop · 05/10/2014 23:13

That sounds like exhaustion talking. Sad
I've probably read similar books to you. What I've picked up is that parenting is exhausting, more so when you have no support, and it's hard to constantly anticipate and fulfil someone else's physical and emotional needs when no-one is replenishing yours. Rather than ignoring the early signs of your own needs (tiredness, hunger, needing a moment to relax), if you can treat this as a moment of airline-style "fit your own oxygen mask before helping others with theirs", you can cope better long-term. So lower your standards of housework etc, find a cbeebies programme or an audiobook to keep your child distracted, do whatever you require to recharge yourself.

mipmop · 05/10/2014 23:19

What that was meant to say was that by recognising the early stages, hopefully you can avoid getting properly frustrated and shouting. Otherwise think in advance of a way to defuse the situation. At age 2 your child may follow you if you leave the room. Maybe you can walk out, punch a cushion and return quickly? Or do a quietish "aaargh!" But have some ideas in advance. Because during moments of frustration the rational part of your brain is hijacked by the less-evolved parts, so you can't make good decisions during that moment. And don't try to suppress it as it'll boil over.

mipmop · 05/10/2014 23:25

Another link to read, on how to relax yourself during the early signs of frustration etc.
m.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201302/the-neurobiology-grace-under-pressure

You probably already talk to your child a lot about recognising and dealing with emotions. Maybe you can talk about feeling annoyed and how to calm down- giving her techniques for herself too.

Original poster
Lovedandexhausted · 05/10/2014 23:28

Thank you, we have had a few ridiculous days... the other night she woke up at 11am and stayed awake until 6am, she is constantly breastfeeding so when I try and distract with TV she insists on feeding and if I try and get away has a tantrum and at that moment I already need to get away to cool off. I just feel like giving up right now honestly. I need some reminders around the house of an action plan when I am very angry

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mipmop · 05/10/2014 23:34

Crikey no wonder you need an outlet! I hope things settle down quickly. I'd try the lovebombing thing first.

Original poster
Lovedandexhausted · 05/10/2014 23:34

Thank you that is a very interesting article!

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mipmop · 05/10/2014 23:40

Glad to help another mother in the trenches!

rumtumtugger · 06/10/2014 06:29

Mipmop, thank you for these links and info, it's helping me too. Loved, I know just how you feel - I have v high standards too and tend to ignore my own needs which boils over into frustration/anger. I'm trying to learn about mindfulness - there's an app called headspace which takes 10 minutes a day and helps you to start focusing 'in the moment' on your own feelings/thoughts/body sensations rather than just running on autopilot all the time - and then running out of fuel or crashing! My local Buddhist centre also runs courses on mindfulness but that involves getting a babysitter in to look after the DCs so not as accessible for me. The Orange Rhino website is also good. It's a journey, I hope to have a good relationship with the DCs when they're grown up, unlike my relationship with my parents! Good luck to you

Stripylikeatiger · 06/10/2014 08:59

It really sounds like you have expectations which are too high, I say that as a mother of a co-sleeping breastfed 2 year old, I found myself becoming less and less patient with my child and I realised it was to do with sleep (lack of!) so I night weaned him and it was horrible, he cried worse than he has ever cried before and I silently cried whilst I cuddled him and my breasts ached to feed him. I never thought I'd do any form of sleep training but the pay off (a calmer, happier, less resentful mummy) was worth the couple of nights of upset.

I have snapped at my child a few times, the notable times were once he had been waking up lots and I was so exhausted, I'd cuddled him most of the night but he wanted to get up to play and I said to him in an angry raised voice "just shut up!!!" My dp was really shocked and took me to one side and said it wasn't ok to speak like that to ds. The other time ds jumped on my tummy when we were in the bath, I'm pregnant and I was really worried about the baby, I believe ds did it on purpose and he laughed afterwards, I shouted at him to get away from me right now. I think those 2 occasions were verging on emotional abuse, I apologised to him and had a long hard think about my actions, I hope I don't react like that in the future.

There is other general shouting such as me shouting stop! Or no bashing the glass door! But I think that is within the realms of normal shouting.

What were your parents like when you were growing up? My mum shouted lots and also smacked us, I feel it's hard to not follow the same sort of parenting style as I was brought up with. I'm generally a happy easily satisfied person so maybe shouting and even hitting doesn't do so much damage, I have a close relationship with my mum. I'm not sure I want to treat my children the same as I was treated just because it all worked out ok for me, it seems like a big risk.

kiki0202 · 06/10/2014 14:26

It sounds like your putting a lot of pressure on yourself with all these 'styles' you follow maybe just try to do what comes natural instead of trying to do the 'right' thing. If your following what a book says then it's not real and natural your forcing it your trying to hard and it can be even more frustrating when you are doing all these things to make your childs life as good as it can be and they are still not happy.

I would put down the books back away from the 'styles' and try to just be if that means you feel crap one day and stick on Netflix for DD while you go watch crap tv in another room.

I am not the strict Victorian type of parent just incase you think I sound anti gentle parenting I do a lot of the things you do but I try to go with my own flow I found following any 'style' of parenting drove me round the bend.

Original poster
Lovedandexhausted · 06/10/2014 14:57

Thank you, I agree, lately she will not leave my side not even for a second. If she's not breastfeeding shes climbing all over me thinking its a funny game when I gently tell her not to, either of these or both at once. Going to another room even for a second has meant meltdown. I worry that my "natural" way of parenting is simply how I was raised. Lots of fear, intimidation, shaming, shouting, smacking, threats, etc

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Original poster
Lovedandexhausted · 06/10/2014 14:58

I am not trying to make excuses btw

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christinarossetti · 06/10/2014 15:17

I don't think you're making excuses - you're expressing the very natural feelings of frustration, suffocation, exhaustion and overwhelm-ness that are a part of parenting for many people, but particularly those who are parenting alone and/or have a 'clingy' (don't like the word, but you know what I mean) child.

Do you work and/or does your dd go to nursery?

I ask because your relationship with your dd sounds very intense. Even if you do work/your dd go to nursery, it most likely will be too, but with more breathing space between the intense bits. (My dd was very like yours from what you describe and our relationship is still intense in a different way from that with my ds, but it's less overwhelming now that she's a) older and b) at school.) She's only started to go into school without clinging on to me, go off with her friends at the park, go to someone else's house etc without being upset, s when she was 6.5 yrs so you might have a while ahead of you, but you need to think now about how you'll manage this.

Your own physical and mental well-being is at least as important as hers - they're completely interdependent when they're little, and it's probably your well-being that you can make some quick changes to at the moment.

Good luck.

kiki0202 · 06/10/2014 16:31

I don't think your making excused your telling us the things that are making it hard for you. Do you think trying to get her to be a little more independent would help? I like to tire DS out by being out and about in the mornings then in the afternoon I put all his toys out in his room and TV on then I go off and do housework and things while I watch TV/listen to music. It helps me so much I would love to be the type of mum who is happy to be attached to her child every moment but i'm just not I need space and can't stand carrying DS around.

saltnpepa · 06/10/2014 19:45

You can't say nasty things to your kids, that they're ruining things or be sarcastic because that's just not loving on any level. I think most parents can identify with the occasional 'fucks sake' in exasperation and some shouting with some days being worse than others. If I know I'm in a foul mood and may take it out on the kids (or anyone nearby) I take responsibility for it and I think this helps. So I say "I am in a foul mood and am feeling very very snappy. If I were you I would go and play and leave me alone for a bit, I'm not cross with you but I am feeling irritated." That way kids know it's about me and not them. Let's face it the times you're horrible to them is about you not them.

Original poster
Lovedandexhausted · 06/10/2014 22:05

No I don't work, dd isn't in childcare although has been happy with a friend a few times. Thinking of nursery but can't help thinking I shouldn't have to need it just to not abuse my daughter...

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Ormally · 06/10/2014 22:52

One thing that seems to have worked for us through very frustrating periods was to talk at bedtime when you are calm. Tell your child what you enjoyed in the day, even if it is just 'playing with the xyz' or 'When you passed me that book, that was very kind'. You can also always apologise and say you are sorry you got impatient or shouted. But definitely pick something that you enjoyed about what you'd done. Now that my nearly 4yo can talk, she sometimes tells me things she enjoyed about the day in the same vein. After a little while you can also mention things like 'I didn't like it so much when X happened and it made me feel annoyed. But generally I enjoyed today'

LizLimone · 07/10/2014 00:52

Whether harsh language and swearing is abuse or not depends on the frequency, I would say. If you have had a few off days here abd there with your DD then it's not something to get too worried about. Your DD will not see swearing or shouting as normal. It's when your response to her is habitually sarcastic, abrasive or negative that you start to stray into emotional abuse, I think.

I had a terrible week with DS last week, both of us tired and frazzled, me 8 months pregnant and him going through some odd developmental shift where he was dropping his daily nap (he is almost 3) and at one point I really did feel I was failing and should be nominated for Worst Mother of the Year award.

This week, however, we are back on track. I'm more patient, less tired as DH helped out a bit last week and DS has got over whatever blip he was going through. Ups and downs are normal but a consistent pattern where you are impatient and aggressive with your DD is a problem.

You say you are a single parent so in that case nursery sounds ideal. It's one thing to have an intense 1-1 relationship with a baby but at 2 your DD is old enough to find other outlets for her energy. I put my DS into nursery 2 mornings a week at 22 months old and he has done fine. It is extra stimulation for him and gave me time to miss him. Doing it all on your own is a lot of pressure. I found that thr pressure to be the perfect parent was driving me crazy. By using nursery to get a break for both of us, it helped me relax and take the pressure off.