Should a nine-year-old be held responsible for losing something valuable?

[Matrushka]

I'm keen to canvas your valuable opinions.

I've fallen out with some good friends over this topic. While on holiday, they offered to take my nine-year-old son to a beach around 90 minutes drive away and left his backpack behind. Inside were all the most important items he needed for the holiday: good quality scuba diving mask and snorkel, swimming trunks and a towel, plus brand new football boots (they said they were thinking of going to a beach with tricky access) and the bag itself was a brand new "No-Fear" back-pack.

I had stayed behind to try and catch up with some work, plus there was no room for me in the car with their three kids and a grand-mother.

The mother - who I've only known for a couple of years - was very sorry but said they couldn't drive back immediately to check if it was still there because it was their daughter's birthday. She offered to pay for replacing the items we need to carry on with the last week of the holiday (my son only had crocs as alternative shoes).

But the father - whom I've known for nearly twenty years - said he asked all the kids if they had everything. But they then went to a beach shower, which is where my boy left his bag. The father drove back the next morning but - of course - everything had gone, except for the swimming trunks.

My son and I took the bus 20k into town the next day to try and find inexpensive replacements for what had been lost. I was very unhappy and my boy was upset that had lost his favourite possessions but we needed to get new things to carry on with the holiday, so there was no question of not replacing them. Even so, we couldn't replace the exact football boots and back-pack. The total we had to spend was 80 euro.

But now, my ex-friend says my boy is responsible and both he and his wife are now in agreement that they shouldn't pay for the replacements. Her closing remark was "You should count yourself lucky for having a fine son."

I'm livid. As they've pretty much ruined our holiday. I believe that if the boot was one the other foot (so to say ;-), I would have taken extra care. I would also have driven back immediately, rather that waiting until the next day. If the bag was not there, I would have paid to replace the items.

I'm keen to find some way out of this so despite the fact that I think they're in the wrong, I'd like to know what you guys think....

googles are nothing like goggles. My bloody dyslexia

He was asked if he had everything and didn't notice he didn't. Hardly the friends' fault . At least they went back to look as soon as was practical even if too late. Taking football boots and crocs only on holiday , surely he could have managed without the boots and you bought cheap trainers and used a carrier bag or cheap swim bag/rucksack rather than spending 80e.

At 9 I was definitely capable of looking after my own belongings. They shouldn't have to pay and to say it's ruined your holiday is a bit dramatic. You've let it ruin your holiday

The friends were v nice to take him to the beach. They reminded him once, he subsequently forgot - shit happens. I think you would be totally mad to either pursue this one or summer with resentment. IMHO they have done nothing wrong.

There are children in hospitals losing limbs, it's a bag! Annoying yes but enough to ruin a holiday, no! A lot of children don't even get to go on holiday. I'm not having a dig, I just want to point out it's not the end of the world.

my DS is 8.5 I would not trust him to check he has all his stuff he has frequently left things behind.

I think it is dow to the individual child and the parents judgement. I dont think anyone on hear can answer because only you know how responsible your DS is.

I think your friends are pretty shitty actually for not going back then offering to replace - did they feel guilty and partyl responsible? I wonder, but then to withdraw it. When a child has slept over at our house I have made sure he has not lost anything and went home with everything - likewise for playdates when they've brought their own figures over.

V good post, FishTank. That.

You are more likely to lose the friendship and ruin the holiday by your reactions rather than the incident itself and consequences. Swallow your pride and apologise.

I think your response is completely OTT , from the thread title I was at least expecting him to have lost an i-phone or similar . Get over it .

Agree that it eas a bit insane to send a 9 year old off with such expensive stuff. If I weere expected to pay out 80+ pounds if somebody's child forgot their stuff I'd never offer to take other people's children on outings - they were doing you a favour!

9 year olds are old enough to be responsible for their stuff (I have a nearly 9 year old) but are still easily distracted, so don't send them off with stuff it'll break the bank or their hearts if they loose!

Hmmm.

I'm very clear to my 6 yos that they are responsible for their coats/shoes/backpacks and not anyone else who might happen to be kindly taking them somewhere. And I wouldn't expect someone else to pay for them if they were lost.

On the other hand if I'm looking after a group of kids I'm quite careful to keep an eye on their stuff and would count it in and out the car. I'd have gone back for it but I'm not sure I'd have been expected to pay for it all.

*andsmile

I think your friends are pretty shitty actually for not going back then offering to replace*

They did go back - but not til later and they had gone. It was a 3 hour round trip - would you really expect friends to redo a 3 hour trip to find a bag?

And to replace...maybe they backtrcked on their initial offer due to the OP's OTT reaction. It would certainly have made me regret offering thats for sure!

I'm really shocked that you've ended a 20 year friendship over a kid's lost bag. I think the person responsible is the one who allowed him to take such expensive stuff with him.

How can losing a bit of stuff possibly ruin your holiday?

You should be grateful that your friends took your DS out for the day. Accidents happen. Things get lost. Claim on your insurance and get over it.

You really sound as if you want a fight over this. In the words of the hideous Frozen song "let it go"!

hula - I meant go back straight away. i think they felt guilty and offered to pay for replacements. But all in all an accident.

I would not expect someone to replace items in this situation but I think they are abit daft for messing about over offering to replace then not.

It shouldnt have ruined your holiday as others have said but them things have gone now they are not comming back. You have replaced them. I hope the replacement hasnt left you too short for holiday spends.

Have you checked with the local police that it has not been handed in? I would be pretty cheesed off at losing the stuff but it was an accident, no one was to blame.

I can see why you'd feel frustrated. It ended up an expensive trip to the beach.

I wouldn't expect a 9-yr-old to be completely responsible. I have relatives in their teens who are pretty scatty and need reminders to pick up their bags. Heck even my dsis forgets items regularly. So I'm in the habit of checking nothing is left behind. If you are that type of parent then I can see why you're upset.

I also think it's quite ungracious to offer to pay to replace the items and then backtrack.

However, after saying all that, I wouldn't fall out over it. No-one deliberately set out to inconvenience you or cost you money. It isn't anyone's fault.

Thanks, guys, for putting it into perspective.

I think DS and I have both learned a lesson about taking stuff to the beach he can't look after. It's not a situation I've been in before so didn't cross my mind that they wouldn't check whether he had his bag. DS is insisting that he wasn't asked if he had his bag. So difficult to know who to believe.

The most expensive element was the football boots and that's probably my fault as a) I didn't want him to fall down the rocky incline b) We didn't have any other shoes. The original backpack was not expensive but we are in Greece and we spent three hours shopping but couldn't find one that was less than 15 euro - and not half as nice.

What did the other money go on? Ten euro for the cheapest towel we could find, 19 euro for scuba gear (the really cheap stuff was 18 euro, so not much of a saving and it would have made his holiday a misery to do without it) and 35 for new football boots, which, BTW, I'm insisting he pay for out of his own money - otherwise he would have got plimsoles.

I agree that my response was a bit OTT, but I'm only human and I think those of us who never over-react should be nominated for sainthood. Yes, it is only stuff, but it's not just the money, it's the half a day shopping it took to buy the original stuff and then the best part of a day to travel into the nearest town here, find replacements and travel back.

But, I take on board what most of you are saying that it was an accident and they shouldn't be responsible. I am actually feeling bad about the Mum because she did apologise and offer to pay. But I think she was outgunned by the Dad who used my reaction as a pretext not to pay (Hulababy also suggested this). He was the one who originally encouraged us to come on this holiday but has spent most of it ignoring us, which I've been quite hurt by. Thanks, TondelayS for picking up on that ("He sounds like a bit of an arse.") He has at no point apologised for what happened and it's his word against DS about whether he reminded him to take the bag.

They are quite a shouty family themselves and there is a lot of arguing between them. In that situation, I think DS could quite easily be distracted (he's distractible anyway).

They've left for home now (as originally planned), DS and I have another five days. I'm considering emailing the Mum to apologise for shouting at her but I don't feel - at the moment - that the friendship with the Dad is salvageable. We already had an argument over money last year (when we were, briefly, in a business arrangement). I've put him up at my house in London on countless occasions, cooked and ferried him around. But they haven't been overly hospitable to us on this holiday. They've cooked their own food - nearly every lunch and dinner - in their apartment and only on one occasion (when the Dad went somewhere with his Mum) socialised in the evenings. There were also so many arguments between them that one of grandmothers moved out of the apartment.

Now that they've gone, DS and I are actually having a better time

I hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday OP. We have discovered in our time that some very wonderful friends are not good 'holiday friends' it takes quite a degree of compatibility to go away together.

However, just to nitpick - IMHO it shouldn't matter whether a 9 nine year old was reminded about his bag. He's 9 for goodness sake - it's his responsibility to take care if his things. If he had been on a school trip the school would have quite rightly expected him to manage his bag.

Yes, children get distracted and make mistakes but it was still his responsibility and I do feel that this experience would be a useful lesson for him in that regard.

Why did he need replacement football boots or a rucksack? Cheaper to get them at home especially as Vat is higher in Greece and applies to all kids clothes.

I'm sorry he lost his bag but it was his responsibility to remember it.

Politely I agree about picking holiday friends carefully! You also make a very good point about the same situation on a school trip. My DS1 (8) left his swimming bag at the pool recently the only thing he had to carry from school and back . We had to make the trip to reclaim the bag, school took no responsibility, nor would I expect them to.

Slight hijack but out of curiosity...friends visited recently with their 3yo DD. She was playing with DS1's new iPod and without any of us realising, put it in her little bag and went home with it. Friends realised when they got back, apologised and posted it back, recorded delivery...it never arrived and friend lost receipt....who should pay the £170(ish) for replacement?

Yes, Politelydeclining, a useful lesson. Unfortunately, not the first time he's had to learn it so you do get used to reminding them - otherwise, even if they have to pay for replacements, it's still you having to reorder or find replacements. Maybe I've been overprotective from the start.

LittleBearPad - one of the pleasures he's had on this holiday is playing football with the local boys in the evening. I think denying him that would have been pretty unfair. We needed another rucksack otherwise I would have been carrying his stuff to the beach, airport etc. I did consider not getting those things until we got back to the UK.

sleep isn't recorded delivery insured by the post office?

You shouted at the mum?

I can honestly say I've never shouted at a friend. I doubt the relationship is salvageable from her point of view.