How soon is too soon for discipline?

[springbabydays]

For example, placing baby in the playpen when ignoring the word 'no'. He understands 'no'. He is 15 months and gets upset if I put him in the playpen but is he too young to make the connection? I don't want to be a meanie if it's not helping him learn. I do other things like distraction when I have the energy, but sometimes I need to remove him from a situation.

The trouble with 'no' is that it is so easy to overuse it and then they don't listen anymore.

With dd I will say 'we don't play with plugs, It's dangerous', 'you must be gentle with the dog', 'food in the mouth or on the plate, please'.

It seems to work better than just saying no no no.

Yes, mewling, repeating the word no when they are just exploring and learning can be pointless as they just get used to it and it loses it's meaning.

Agree mewling 100%

Was just wondering about backing it up with the playpen idea, rather than specifically the use of the word 'no'. I think I'll persevere with removing him, explaining, distracting him until I do indeed start to lose my sanity playpen is a last resort! Yes he's pretty switched on, he signs 'hot' when we're cooking etc, so his understanding is increasing all the time.

I guess this is one of those areas where we all get by as best we can, what works for one won't necessarily work for another.

My DD is 25 months and I can't remember back to 15 months clearly but I think I used to redirect. Now instead of no I say "I won't let you..." And block the action.
I use a lot of the techniques on the Janet Lansbury blog (I don't have the link right now but will post it shortly). She actually says not to use distraction but I say do what works for you and your toddler.

Lansbury www.janetlansbury.com

Ugh messed that link up sorry! Janet Lansbury

The word discipline comes from the word disciple which means 'to teach'. It's not about smacking or shouting or being overly harsh. It's very misunderstood these days, we seem to have gone from a generation that used smacking to 'teach' to a generation that's scared to say 'no' lest you are branded an ogre of a parent or abusive. I think we've thrown the baby out with the bath water a bit and I've noticed on these types of sites that anyone who asks a question about discipline methods gets a flaming, when they are simply asking a question. God forbid little Timmy hears the word 'no' before he's three. Both of mine have understood what is or isn't ok from around a year old I.e. Sticking fingers in socket gets me moved to another location with a gentle no and a toy handed to me instead. Either my children are geniuses, or children really can understand a bit more than we give them credit for. It isn't about being harsh, you can teach with love and kindness, but you still teach.

I use a combination of distraction or 'ah ah ah' seems to be my turn of phrase . Where possible I distract but DS will not be distracted, he simply pauses, stares at you, giggles, and does it again (usually pulling sister's hair and making her cry). If he won't get the point I pick him up and pop him a few feet away and hand him a toy. He'll give a yelp of rage usually. I always try to make it simple 'plugs will hurt xxxx' or 'gentle hands' and try to avoid overusing 'no' as it does lose it's meaning. But you know what, I'm on my second child now, and it took me a bit of time to work it all out with my first and I read a LOT to try and be the best parent I can be....and still fail utterly at times!

If a child hasn't been taught a sense of right and wrong by 18 months, it is too late, they are unable to aquire that sense beyond that age

Funny I did this today, ds4 is 16 months and was playing with the door, usually I say no and distract but I needed to go and finish dinner so I put him in the playpen.

AElf don't be so ridiculous

Oh and I haven't used ouch since I tried it once with ds1 19 years ago and he cried thinking I'd hurt myself

I despise "discipline".

Really?? Surely discipline is about learning appropriate ways to behave? It is not the same thing as punishment. Children need and want to learn boundaries. They help them feel secure.

In my opinion discipline is essential and there is nothing wrong with the word 'no' - used when necessary (and obviously as part of a wide vocabulary to encourage language development...). Isn't 'No is a complete sentence' a Mumsnet mantra?

Not at all ridiculous HavanaSlife, current neurological research, in fact not really that current, fairly well established. Any training in attachment etc, includes this fairly basic fact.

I see what you mean completely that you don't want to create a world where half your stuff is off limits because your son cannot just be told to leave some things alone. We did this too, if ds started to touch something he was not allowed I said no, not a barked order more firm clear 'nooo' if he continued I moved him away/ took away offending item, no other consequence just that.
I dont think ds was much older than you ds tbh when it became very effective, but there is always room to think maybe I was lucky?
The only thing I would say is if you use a playpen for hes safety, I wouldn't personally use it as a time out place at any age because you don't want him associating negative feelings to hes place to play while you iron or whatever, same reason I would not want to time out in a cot in the future.
Also I think it worked for us because I'm a very outdoorsy person and I love sensory play, so we would spend hours pottering in the park or at the beach where there are actually very few reasons to say no to a curious toddler I dont mind him getting messy and touching things or going home with every leaf from the park in hes bucket so there could still be consistency where their needed to be boundaries without hes whole day being a long round of being denied stuff.

Thanks for that link Nancy I agree with what she says about distraction to a certain extent but I think all of it really depends a lot on the age of the child. 15 months is a lot different from 18 months which in turn is a lot different from 24 months.

I've thought much more carefully about how I'm speaking to ds since starting this thread, and am also being mindful of using the playpen as a time out for the reason you mentioned rabbit.

I also think it's important to start 'discipline' as soon as possible, as I intend to be as consistent as possible with ds (to hopefully make it easier on him in the long run) and start as I mean to go on.

Spring baby your consistency has to adapt as the get older. They are changing all the time.

Think of children as they go through different phases, where the do one really annoying thing all the time for a while but then move on to the next thing. When they stop doing that thing it's because it has fulfilled it's purpose in helping their development.

The thing they do, whether it's throwing things, hiding, splashing water, is an actual need that manifests as a result of their developing brains wiring up, if they don't do these things they will fail to wire correctly.

When you train a dog it's all about sit, stay,wait go. This works because a dog is a dog and it hasn't got the need to develop in such a complex way.

Oversimplifying your responses to children can be quite damaging. The best way is to see it for what it is, your child is building the most sophisticated machine on the planet.

That's a good point. I think it's just that I need to remind myself of this sometimes.