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Original poster

How soon is too soon for discipline?

67 replies

springbabydays · 04/06/2014 19:04

For example, placing baby in the playpen when ignoring the word 'no'. He understands 'no'. He is 15 months and gets upset if I put him in the playpen but is he too young to make the connection? I don't want to be a meanie if it's not helping him learn. I do other things like distraction when I have the energy, but sometimes I need to remove him from a situation.

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unrealhousewife · 05/06/2014 12:30

No is an abstract concept to a child. Other words teach a child to associate certain things, like stop, wait, oops, oh dear, let's try this, or where's it gone?

Davsmum it's not hard and makes all the difference. Save no for the attention seeking stuff that comes when they're 5and 6.

Davsmum · 05/06/2014 12:36

I agree that your words are better as the child grows - I was talking about a very young child - and for when they are going to do something that is a definite 'NO' - not a 'wait' or an 'oops' or an 'oh dear' situation.
Very young children do understand a No.
If you say no and move a child from whatever,..it associates the No with not going ahead.

unrealhousewife · 05/06/2014 12:42

Favs a different word will be much more productive and will help with language development.

Careful, is another on if there is danger.

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unrealhousewife · 05/06/2014 12:43

*Davsmum

mummytime · 05/06/2014 12:58

Careful takes too long to say - sorry!

unrealhousewife · 05/06/2014 12:58

Stop, ouch, hot, look, ?

Davsmum · 05/06/2014 13:10

a different word will be much more productive and will help with language development

I did say that I was talking about initially - when the child is very young. One word to stop a very young child from continuing something is less confusing than several different words if you need a child to understand and stop now.

mummytime · 05/06/2014 13:19

Well its far too late for me to benefit for your wisdom - I am sure you can quote all the properly peer reviewed scientific studies to back up your claims of the deep psychological harm that comes from the word No!
I must be very lucky that my DC have reached quite advanced ages without any obvious evidence of the truama that I inflicted on them throughout their early childhood. I have to say I do sometimes still use that word with them - but then they sometimes use it to me too. I wonder how society has coped for so long!

unrealhousewife · 05/06/2014 13:19

Not really the way language development works Davs.

And at that age they are interested in cause and effect. What happens when I throw down the spoon is that mummy picks it up, she moves in different ways, she says oh oh, she talks to me, I learn. Then the move on to the next stage, they hand it to you, you say thank you, smile, etc. Say no and they learn nothing.

Except that mummy doesn't like what I did and isn't happy.

Iggly · 05/06/2014 13:22

No should be saved for danger. The tone says it all more than anything.

Annoyances - you distract.

Davsmum · 05/06/2014 13:53

unrealhousewife

I am not talking about 'language' I am talking about stopping a child doing something. I am not suggesting you don't talk to your child apart from saying 'No'
My two managed to learn loads with me saying 'No' in the context I described.
Picking up a spoon after a child has thrown it down is not the same thing. Of course you will have a dialogue about that.

Davsmum · 05/06/2014 13:54

mummytime

Exactly. :)

unrealhousewife · 05/06/2014 14:00

Your choice of how you teach you child about safety and behaviour, but do look at the video I mentioned, by a prominent neuropsychologist it might change your mind.

IfNotNowThenWhen · 05/06/2014 14:10

Eh? Are people really saying that you can't stop a child doing something/touching something they shouldn't until they are over 3?Or 5?
Discipline does not mean punishment. It's just teaching boundries, and I would say around 1 and a half is about the time that should start.
Of course use distraction where appropriate, but sometimes it's fine to say "no" and use a consequence that is not desirable to the toddler.
If you can gently teach a dog not to jump up at visitors, you can certainly teach a 2 year old not to play with the toilet brush or whatever.
I have used the cot, back in the day, when ds went thru a stage of hitting me at maybe 2 years old. He hit, I would immediately say "no" firmly and put him in his cot. After 3 times, he understood that if he hit , then he would go in the cot, and he never ever did it again.
It's fine.

FinDeSemaine · 05/06/2014 14:13

I don't think 15 months old is too young to understand no. It might be too young for him to actually control his impulses, though. At this sort of age, DD was perfectly able to understand no and step away from whatever it was (I didn't punish her, just kept removing her from whatever it was). However, she did have to be watched like a hawk because as soon as she spotted whatever it was in a few minutes time, she wanted to touch it again. That part just takes time to get through - one day it will improve in what feels like about a hundred years time but is actually probably only six months or so. And I don't see that putting a baby in the playpen for a short time is particularly bad if you can't watch like a hawk because of having to cook or something. If he can't stop touching the plug sockets then he needs to be away from them if you are not able to supervise every single second.

IfNotNowThenWhen · 05/06/2014 14:15

My brother is going through this right now, with a just under 2 year old child. They have literally turned their house upside down, barricaded the bathroom, to prevent their child from doing things he shouldn't. Dnephew doesn't have a plate at the table, as he just flips it on the floor, apparently. I said "have your tried telling him no?" SIL and brother just looked at me in surprise. "Oh. we don't like to"

Original poster

springbabydays · 05/06/2014 14:51

Thank you this is kind of what I was trying to get to!

He does understand no. He sometimes takes notice and sometimes (with a cute smirk) doesn't.

What I was trying to ask was this: when he doesn't take notice, would placing him in his playpen make him realise that no means no? Or to him would it be completely unrelated to what just happened?

I'm all for using different words but when it's a safety issue, 'no' is often the one that comes to mind quickest - or 'stop', or his name spoken urgently.

I realise that patience is key at this age, and it seems to take forever, but already there are things he no longer does that used to be of concern. I know he'll get there eventually.

OP posts:

Davsmum · 05/06/2014 15:28

I don't think putting him in his playpen is a good idea as a 'punishment'. He is only 15 month old and is learning.
What happens then if you just need to put him in the playpen because you cannot watch him for a short while whilst busy? He would think he was being punished and wonder why?!
I am afraid you just have to be consistent and remove him from what it is you don't want him to do each time he does it - It takes a lot of times!

FinDeSemaine · 05/06/2014 15:29

I am pretty sure it would have worked for my daughter. As it happens, we didn't do that but I would not have had a problem with it - and I would have told her clearly why she was going in the playpen 'mummy has to cook dinner and I can't do that while you are touching things you shouldn't. You can come out of the playpen when I can watch you to make sure you are safe' etc so that she knew it was related. It sounds like your son has good understanding, so it could work. She once drew on the wall in the living room when I was cooking (think she was about 18 months), and I made her come in the kitchen with me (v small, boring, no toys) and sit in her highchair and I told her why and she never did it again. There was no crying or shouting. She whinged a bit at the dullness of the highchair and I explained why she had to sit in it and that was that. I don't think being put in the playpen for a short time is some dreadful punishment that should be avoided at all costs. It's safe but not as nice as being out of it and presumably has toys in it.

FinDeSemaine · 05/06/2014 15:32

It's not really a punishment, though, is it? It's the natural consequences of his actions. If he can't stop touching plug sockets, he needs to be away from them because he needs to be safe. Ditto if his mother can't watch him. Being put in the playpen is something that happens when mummy wants to keep him safe but can't watch him. I wouldn't bother putting him in it if you can watch, though - think of every 'no don't touch' as one step closer to him actually not touching. It may help you keep your sanity when you start to feel as though it's all you've said for weeks.

Pasithea · 05/06/2014 15:41

Does anyone actually smack kids anymore at any age. As my husbands grandchildren are at a last resort. I was so surprised as I thought this was not done now

beatingwings · 05/06/2014 15:43

I don't hit children, no. Or dogs or adults.

FinDeSemaine · 05/06/2014 15:46

I wouldn't.

choochootrain1 · 05/06/2014 15:47

I'm trying to figure this out myself. My DS is 20months. I think 15months is def too early. I say "LEAVE" in a firm loud voice when it's things I cannot have control over, followed up by a simple explanation once he's moved away eg "very dangerous, don't touch" (eg at a friends house, out and about) but at home I have things babyproofed for the most part. It wasn't realistic for me to babyproof the whole kitchen so I have a safety gate on it instead and he stays out and watches from the gate if not cooking/loading the washing machine with me, but I still tell him while he is watching "hot, ouchy" etc if I'm using the cooker and it worked in my nans house the other day he wouldn't go near the cooker and told her "hot, blow on it!" LOL

I also have one room in the house which is totally babyproof (his room) and a safety gate on it that he can explore to his hearts content with no need for me to watch him 24/7 in there when I need to get on with things.

I think risk is somewhat important but realistically at that age it's not like you're ever going to leave bubs unattended so I wouldn't worry over teaching him to not touch, over time he'll get the idea hearing you say it several times a day and moving him away.

Nocomet · 05/06/2014 16:15

There is nothing wrong with No if it's not the only word a child hears and there is nothing wrong with 5 minutes in your play pen if it's the fith time you have been, distracted, remove or told No.

DCs do have to start understanding some things just should not be touched.

A very small BFing baby learns very quickly not to bite if removed from the breast everytime they do it.

Never underestimate how much a small DC understands. DD1 had no impulse control whatsoever (she was right through to senior school) a compulsive fiddler who would climb anything.

Although No lasted 3 nano seconds, you would still catch her checking you weren't looking, before repeating the crime. Not being able to resist and knowing you shouldn't are two different things.

Knowing you shouldn't touch something is a necessary precursor to understanding why you shouldn't.

Understanding why aids disapline no end between 3&6. Sadly at about six a certain amount of I'm going to do it anyway kicks in, but hopefully not over roads, fires or electricity. By six because it's dangerous tends to make some sense.

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