Persistent bullying at primary school- thoughts needed please

[ThornOfCamorr]

Quick background- my daughter is almost 8 and since reception she has had problems with the same child. It was very physical in the beginning,scratching biting hitting etc and school helped us to deal with it but each year after a few months the behaviour from the other child begins again.

We have reached year 3 now and just had enough. This year the bullying- school were reluctant to use this word for the last few years- has changed a little.Now the child has started to get other children to exclude my daughter. The latest of many incidents was to make out my daughter had done something to upset another girl and the two of them sat pretend crying and my poor girl had no idea what she had done. I should add my daughter is very uncomplicated,quiet and loves to read. She is so kind and thoughtful. Her teacher says exactly the same.

I have seen her self esteem take a dip this year due to the constant things this child says to her. We have helped our daughter to find ways of managing the other child's behaviour,walking away,being assertive and choosing different friends. School did begin a nurturing programme which seemed to fizzle out and the other parent will not speak to me as she thinks we are 'picking' on her child. There were so many physical hurts this child inflicted on mine it could not be ignored and the parent apologised initially but now chooses to blame us.

We have again spoken to school as the child became quite physical this week as well as other destructive behaviour such as drawing on my daughters coat, crushing her,refusing to let go then taunting her saying 'not going to tell your mum are you?' She is quite strong and forceful towards my daughter and I am simply at a loss with what to do next. My daughter can deal very well with petty playground behaviour but this child pursues her and creates very uncomfortable situations. They are now in separate classes but I cannot believe it has continued throughout my daughters school life. I have been a parent for 22 years and never came across this type of situation. We have followed the correct channels through school but nothing is changing. Has anyone else experienced this?

My daughter simply wants to be left alone and she enjoys school but the other child almost seems obsessed with her.

Your poor girl. Enough is enough.

You can do one of two things.

Either decide to escalate this further to the Governors/ report to Ofsted

Or

Get her out.

As somebody who did not move her child at the end of year 3 and was talked into keeping him at school for another two shaky years and a horrendous year 6 I would opt for the second.

Thank you agador we have considered moving our daughter. It is definitely an option. I can't believe youngish children can be so mean. hope your child is okay now.

Our board of governors has one of the child's parents very good friends on it. How does that work when it comes to a situation like ours? I have no idea.

Thankyou Thorn he is at high school now and like a different child.

With regards to the Governors I'm not sure. They should be impartial. The welfare of the children and the interests of the school are their priority and can overrule the head if they feel a situation warrants it.

To look at this situation now after the length of time it has been going on with no satisfactory outcome what would you expect to happen? Would they exclude the child?

I think it's time to cut your losses and find your DD a school with good pastoral care and a solid behavioural policy.

You shouldn't have to move your daughter and put her through an upheaval just because of bullying, the school should deal with this. You should ask to see the school policies on behaviour, bullying and equality. It's so hard though as you say - physical stuff is undeniable and easier to deal with but the emotional stuff can be much more hurtful and harder to pinpoint. Ask for a meeting with school and explain the effect it is having on your daughter. They are bound by their duty of care to put support in place.

My Ds was bulied badly. IMO there come a point at which you say to yourself 'is the school willing to stand firm and stop this behaviour?' If sadly they are not willing to stop it then there is no other option but to remove your child. This is the decision we took with Ds and now he is much happier and isn't being bullied anymore.

God, how awful. I don't know how you have stopped yourself from knocking her block off.

What does your dd want to do? I would maybe take her to another school for a look around so she can see that it is an option. Poor girl, having that to deal with every day.

Thanks for your replies. It is hard to not get angry and I feel on the brink of it if I am honest. Dd wants to stay at this school (we had a chat this morning) but she agrees it may be a decision we have to make whether to move her or not.

I asked the teacher this morning if school were planning to speak to the other parent about the most recent spate of bullying and apparently they were not! Unless I requested they do. Which obviously I have. I just don't understand how a child is supposed to understand what they are doing is wrong if the parent is not involved- however much in denial they are regarding their child's behaviour.

The teachers had my dd and the child together yesterday for a chat (teacher and I spoke this morning) so my dd could tell the child what she doesn't want her to do,be physical etc. The teacher explained to the child the recent behaviour is not okay and she needs to either stay away from my dd or play nicely. Later after this chat another girl was sent to my dd to say she didn't like her anymore. Dd presumes the bully had something to do with it as they are friends. She is now remotely trying to upset her despite the chat so nothing is going in obviously. This petty behaviour dd said she can ignore completely but she is scared of the other child. I feel like banging my head against a brick wall!

I would certainly push the school more regarding this child's behaviour towards your child. Could you ask the school for the TA's and lunchtime staff to be extra vigilant around your child and the other child?

Besides a chat from the teacher, are there any repercussions for the bully? Do you have a copy of the school's anti-bullying strategy? I'd write a letter to the class teacher and head teacher listing all the incidents that have occurred and how often you have brought these issues to their attention. Then I'd ask them to propose a solution that fits with their anti-bullying strategy. They have a duty of care to your dd and they're failing miserably.
I'm on your behalf. We've been having a similar issue with ds and I had yet another meeting at the school this month concerning it. tbh this is my last attempt to resolve it and if it doesn't work then I'll be looking for another school.

Don't let your DD have to make any choices about school. Explain that you will decide what is best for her.

I only say this because we let my son have a say in the choice of his secondary school, and he ended up sick with anxiety. With hindsight we should have been far more explicit that a decision as important as the choice of schools must be made by the parents not the child (although obviously their opinion does matter).

I hope that whatever you decide works out for your DD (and for you.... it's as horrible for you as your DD isn't it?)

My nephew was bullied until he was moved to another school recently. He would be tripped up, had a compass dragged down his back, they would go into his bag and break his belongings, call him names, tell him he was a weed in the ground and had no friends. So much so he began a habit of coughing then started to blink his eye all the time. My sister took him to a consultant at the hospital who said it was stress. The bullies then got him on the online gaming and gave threats saying to watch his back when he went into school as they would get him. He was beaten up a couple of times. The school did nothing and just said they could keep an eye out and put the bullies in the exclusion zone but they couldn't guarantee his safety. So my sister moved him to another school and hes really happy now with like minded kids who want to study and have the same maths and science interests as him. I told her to call the police as a lot of it was assault but she just documented and kept everything and presented it to the new school to help his case. Its awful when its going on but the only thing that made any sense was to move him away.

Another vote for not letting your DD decide whether she stays at the school or not. She is only little and has only ever known this school - she has no experience of other schools and how things could be different. No doubt she assumes she will be bullied wherever she goes. And some bits of school probably are nice (when it's nice it's really nice - this is the same argument that keeps people with abusive partners)

You are the adult and you have to decide what is best. My mum asked me the exact same question when I was relentlessly bullied at primary school. I said I wanted to stay at the school. Both me and my mum bitterly regret that this conversation ever happened - I should have been taken out but I was too young to know this.

This has been going on for 3+ YEARS.

If the school was going to be effective in dealing with the bullying, it would have happened by now.

I'd move her. And send a factually based letter to the governors and LEA explaining exactly why to try to help others.

I was bullied at school but not to that extent. She must dread every day.

I'd also consider some sort of martial arts/self defence to build her confidence and so she can learn she can defend herself.

Hope it improves soon.

littlepink how terrible for your poor nephew. So pleased he is ok now I felt very sad reading your post and hoping he was alright. theyaremysunshine good idea about the martial arts for confidence building and yes I agree with everyone about making the final decision regarding a school move. Good luck bookaboosue don't leave it as long as i have,the advice on here is very true and helpful.

Dd had a good day yesterday and came home happy, but I know this doesn't usually last so it's the final chance for us too. There are one or two other good schools not too far away which I am definitely going to be looking at.

Your daughter sounds so like me that I have to put forward my view.

I was bullied from age 7-16 and it has impacted massively on my led and self-esteem. I was a childlike your daughter: quiet, straightforward and loved reading, and I was baffled and at a loss to deal with the complicated plots against me - also instigated by one girl. The pretend-crying thing made me cringe. That sort of weird, complex plot was what I was subjected to for years. It is hugely damaging.

People are saying you shouldn't have to move school and the school should deal with it - but they might not want to or be able to and the consequences are all on your daughter.

Move her.

Whatever you say and do, it's near impossible to equip your daughter to firstly deal with it in be moment and secondly to avoid internalising it. The school SHOULD - great, and ideally, yes. But chances are they won't.

Sorry to scare-monger - I really am, and I wish it was5 happening, I wish the other girl's parents would step up and face what a little b£&:h she is, but they're not.

This really struck a chord with me. If I could address my mother when I was 7+ and dealing with the persistent onslaughts from my tormentor, I'd say "move her now" short term upheaval but has to be worth it. Like you say, you've never seen the like of it before, amd therefore extremely unlikely to happen again in her new school, and your daughter can get on with being her lovely self in peace.

Meant on my life, not on my led. Stupid tiny phone keyboard.

And in the moment, not in be moment. D'oh.

Your poor dd.

I would second moving her if the school do not manage to control the behaviour of the other child-though will they still go to the same secondary?

Regarding her self esteem I found these two books really helpful with my dd -Stand up for yourself and your friends by Patti criswell -good because it helped my dd work out what she wanted to say to bullies as opposed to my ideas!
Helping children build self esteem by Deborah plummer - it's lots of worksheets that my dd loved doing which did help her self esteem.

Just want to add, your daughter is 8 so she can take refuge at home at the moment. Soon the social media thing will kick in, and then this horrible girl will hound her in her own home. Please move her before that happens.

This has really upset me . I wish you and your daughter the very best and I am sure you will keep talking to her in the meantime.

Can I add my voice to the 'move her' option. This sounds very much like the situation we had, we moved and I'm so relieved we have.

DD is very young in the year, quiet, sensitive and reads a lot. She is very easy going and always makes friends easily. One child at school really had it in for her from reception and this lead to a small group physically bullying her - wiping their nose on her, swinging PE bags into her face repeatedly etc. She recently told me about being in the reception playground and this girl 'pretended to be kind' and asked her to go up the slide, then threw stones at her. The school acknowledged it was happening but were pretty ineffectual about dealing with it - similar "nurture groups" etc which helped a bit but didn't really deal with the main behaviour. They essentially said, they did a lot of circle time on being kind, but this child was just like that... By yr 2 she was being ostracised by other children at the behest of this group. It was really affecting her confidence and self-esteem I was really worried that what cookietramp describes would happen and this would affect her for life. I also felt the school was so apathetic that they weren't likely to change, friends who were teachers told me to get her out.

We moved her a few months ago after a few weeks of yr 2 and the change has been incredible. We did ask her what she thought but we presented it as 'we will decide where we think the best school for you is, but an important part of that is where you think you'll be happy'. She was a bit nervous about leaving her friends (there were nice friends in class but this wasn't enough) but did trial days at the schools we were looking at and was really excited once she'd tried that and people were friendly. She moved and settled in really quickly. An ex-friend helpfully suggested that the bullying was DDs fault and would just follow her wherever she went, so I was terrified it would just continue but she would have no friends to buffer. Actually she made friends very fast and is back to her normal self very quickly. It might sound a bit dramatic feel as if the decision to move her has rescued her. We've been very careful not to talk about it in front of her but on the way to school the other day she said to me 'I think moving schools has changed my whole life' when I asked why she said 'because I never have to see X and Y again'. I think that's probably right. I'm extremely angry that we've had to move from our local school to allow a 6 yr old to feel safe at school but it has definitely been worth it.

Sorry that's a bit of an essay!

Hi, Tess, I'm so glad you moved your DD. That "pretending to be kind" thing you described brought back all kinds of incidents that started that way for me. "You pretend to be R's friend, get her to tell you something about herself, then take her over to the netball court, and then we'll all turn up and taunt her about it and take her stuff". I was so desperate to be liked that I would always fall for it. I was just so straightforward and could not grasp it even as it was happening. They acted it out so well, it's scary.

As to your ex-friend who suggested the problem would transport to a new school, I think that can happen it only when it's gone on a long time and the victim starts to act like a victim, which draws that behaviour to them from new children. That's sort of what happened to me. I expected it and was resigned to it even while it was destroying me.

So, I'm glad to hear your DD was rescued from it and I so hope the OP is free of it soon. But don't panic, OP, as it takes years and years for the internalising to take place. If she's 8 and has lovely parents like you, who seek the best and constantly look for solutions and talk to her, she will soon recover when she is free of the bullying.

Move Schools. Have so BTDT. My only regret is not moving sooner.

Thanks cookietramp. Yes, DD had a lot of that e.g. 'come to sit next to us for lunch', then once she'd got her lunch unpacked screaming and running away. It is very unpleasant.

Another thing I think is helpful in moving early is that I think DD still derives a lot of her self-esteem from us and having a secure, loving and calm home has given her a really strong base. I imagine that as you get older relationships with peers become increasingly important to your self-esteem.

Re the ex friend and the suggestion that bullying would follow her, yes I'm sure that 'acting a victim' can happen as you suggest. I was worried about this as DD would refer to her friends 'being kind and letting her play' so clearly didn't perceive herself as being on the same level. We spent a long time building up DDs confidence before we moved and she doesn't seem to have acted in this way at her new school. The ex-friend story is a bit long but went a long way past suggesting that. Essentially she was very defensive about our school (it was in special measures too and she was from a wealthy background and had been criticised for sending her child state) and took it upon herself to invite me out to rip DDs personality to pieces based on what she'd seen on volunteering on a school trip. She told me that the bullying was DDs fault because she was weird and that she was probably autistic (she's not though if she were that would hardly make it her fault!). We followed it up with the school and SENCO and outside of school and there were no concerns whatsoever save that DD was clearly under huge stress. The school were incredibly apologetic as they accepted they'd allowed the stress to happen. When I told her the results of the tests she cut all contact, I assume she couldn't accept the inevitable conclusion that the school had failed.

Thorn - just to clarify, as that was a bit negative, since she has moved its been an incredibly different experience. She has been there 4 months. In the past after school she'd almost always come out and say 'something bad happened today' and tell me about being kicked to all the people who wouldn't play with her etc. From the first week at the new school she's bounced out and told me about all the games they've played. Not once has she told me that anyone has been unpleasant or left her out. After a few weeks she came out and said 'something bad happened today'. My heart was in my mouth but the 'something bad' was that it had rained so they couldn't go on the bug hunt they'd wanted to do! The new teacher didn't know about the bullying and from the start she's said that DDs settled in really well. At parents' evening her comment was that DD had made lots of friends very quickly 'but she is a very sociable and happy child, I'm sure you knew she'd settle easily'. She's had lots of play dates and party invitations, to be fair she did have them before but that was partly me engineering them with people I knew, now it's her forging her own relationships. It has completely transformed her school experience and her self-esteem.