Teachers speaking out about parents' long working hours

[vestandknickers]

Here.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27027677

Interesting. I think it is good that this is being raised as an issue.

I am not anti working parents at all, but surely a society that thinks it is ok for children to be at school from 8am to 6pm needs to look at itself.

Hopefully it is still a small minority of children who spend five days a week at school for these hours, but it is good that teachers are speaking out before it becomes seen as an acceptable norm.

personally, I would feel bad expecting other people working to fund my lifestyle while my family took from the common pot and contributed very little.

......while lecturing the very people that supported my family about what they were doing wrong in their own lives.

because to me that is not putting your children first, but that's just my opinion.

BoffinMum

There are levels of greed though, surely.
I don't think consuming electricity, gas or water makes you greedy. We need these things, without heat you become ill in the winter.
We don't all need the latest gadgets, expensive cars, foreign holidays, private health care, private education.
These things are great and if we can afford them then fantastic but to me there's easily affording them or full time child care to afford them.
Some people are happy to live for the latter, some aren't.

FavouriteWasteOfTime

I see it as being there for my children and wouldn't expect other tax payers to contribute to my lifestyle choice in the form of childcare, its all relative.

potatoprints - Does your male partner work and you are a SAHM?

Why do people assume that if both parents are working full-time and have two incomes coming in that automatically equates to foreign holidays, luxury cars and private healthcare?

but childcare is only a few years per child.

Grennie, yes my dh works and I'm a sahm of 22 years now.

Thurlow - Because there are a lot of well off people on MN?

potatoprints - You say this isn't an issue about women being expected to take responsibility for childcare, but that is exactly what you have done yourself?

So that automatically means that every family on MN with two parents working are well off?

My genuine impression is that the majority of posters who are 'well off' on MN are those with SAHM's as their husband earns a very large salary.

Thurlow

Because unless they have out stretched themselves with a mortgage, or both earn min wage, you could afford these things with 2 wages.
People think this because some are able to manage fine in life on one min wage.

some are able to manage fine in life on one min wage.

if they bought a house many years ago and have their income topped up.

Grennie

There is nothing else I wanted to do after finding out I was pg.
I gave up a really good business to be a sahm, it was this or a nanny and somebody else raising my dc. I didn't want this for my dc.
other people see it differently, which is fine.
I don't think women should give up work when they have dc, but for me childcare was a no no.

Thurlow - My impression is that MNers are a better off bunch than the general population. Just read any thread where people talk about the kind of life they live. Some of those have a SAHM, some have two parents working.

Well, pretty much the only way most people have been able to buy a house in the past ten years or so is to stretch themselves. Just as one income will go further in different parts of the country.

It's actually quite ignorant to assume to two incomes leaves enough money for private school or fancy holidays.

This argument could go around in circles and probably won't get anyone anywhere.

But equally the implication that two incomes equals 'wealth' equally doesn't get anyone anywhere.

House prices are cheap enough round here, that's why we moved here, to enable us to have a sahp. If you are thrifty you can afford a sahp here, and afford a basic lifestyle. The problem is people don't want a basic lifestyle, they want more. So to fund the lifestyle they want they need 2 full time incomes, which is what the report is about.
I know plenty of families where the parents share the childcare themselves without outside intervention and both manage to hold down a job.
I won't change my view when tax credits are stopped, we will adjust our spending accordingly.
How many people would be knackered if childcare ceased to be subsidised?
Once again, its all relative.

so what prices is a small 3 bedroom house?

We don't all need the latest gadgets, expensive cars, foreign holidays, private health care, private education

I find your comments woefully naive, somewhat ignorant even.

1. Many teachers would say that without broadband and a computer at home, children effectively suffer a form of social exclusion that can affect their educational attainment. Similarly there is a poverty premium that means those without IT access cannot benefit from reduced price online offers.

1. With a computer you can get a second hand DS for £30 and a second hand console for £50 that give hours of play value and can even be sold on later if you want. Frankly kids can save up that kind of money car washing if they want. Having these items allows interaction with other kids about the games and so on, which is as important for social purposes as discussing last night's telly. You don't have to, in the same way that you don't technically have to use deodorant, but don't expect a broad friendship group if you eschew all modern things like this.

1. The majority of people in this country live in areas where the public transport is crap or overly expensive, to say the least, so a reliable car is essential unless people want to look flaky not getting to work in bad weather, etc. It is also cheaper than using public transport in a lot of cases, for larger families. Most people do not drive around in BMWs, incidentally, and I don't think I have ever heard anyone say that the desire for a premium car has over-ridden their desire to care for their own children. In fact, I find that a ridiculous notion.

1. Foreign holidays. Another old chestnut much beloved of the retrospective little Englanders, who seem to forget they live on an island where everything else is 'forrin', and that elsewhere in the world it would be quite normal to nip over a border to take advantage of a cheap deal. They also forget the fact that foreign holiday can cost a fraction of a Butlin's trip in the UK. In fact last summer a load of us costed up some brilliant foreign holidays using Tesco vouchers for the Eurotunnel and based in cheap gites near Boulogne for about 1/3 of what Butlins would cost, or even a boring B and B in a seaside resort. I know what I would rather spend my hard earned cash on.

1. Private health care. Depends where you live. The variation in health care in this country is shocking. Round by me, you simply don't need it. There are other parts of the country where frankly your mortality risk from cancer, for example, will be a lot higher without insurance. A subsidiary issue is that with private health insurance you can plan elective surgery to fit around your work commitments. Without it, if you have an unsympathetic boss or demanding clients, frankly you put your livelihood at risk in some cases. That is another reason why people buy it. They are not stupid.

1. Private education. I think private education varies in quality, and have posted extensively about that, but it is easy to reject it until your kid is bullied or your only available local school is run by a despotic, incompetent head teacher. Parents change their tune pretty quickly when that happens.

"Funded by the wealthy tax-avoiders"

To significantly increase the state pension, which is provided to millions for a decade plus out of taxation receipts or government borrowing, you are going to have to do a hell of a lot more than this. Especially if you plan to take one taxpayer per parenting couple out of the income side.

One of the biggest problems with any conversation like this on a national/international forum is that the price of living varies enormously around the country, so what is manageable in one area is not manageable in another. Plus people get into jobs and specialisations which tie them into living in a particular area, so you can't just move to another, cheaper part of the country without perhaps giving up a career.

We deliberately bought a smaller house, just taking into account DH's salary. We did this because we both wanted me to be a SAHM when children arrived. We both felt that it was very important that one of us was home with them for the pre school yers. DH was minded from the age of one and hated it. He has very sad memories of his pre school years.

I did take a part time job teaching at night school to pay for holidays and extras but we managed ok.

We had 2 DCs and when the youngest started school I went back to work and we bought a bigger house and had a more comfortable lifestyle.

But I believe it was the right decision for us and our children. I enjoyed those years with my children.

People have to make difficult choices and can only opt for what is best for them. I woudn't have wanted my small DCs to be in any form of childcare from 8am to 6pm.

A small 3 bed terrace round here is about 80k
A 3 bed semi about 120.
We have a large 4 bed period semi.

My ds1 is saving a deposit now with his gf. They both work but the wages are low up here, a good 5k lower than south, at least.
They have nothing though, no gadgets, debts, holidays, entertainment.
They do have one old car between them.
I am so thankful they have good values, she intends to be a sahp in years to come when they settle down.

how does 1 person working FT on NMW pay a mortgage on an 80k house (not one they bought years ago)?

do tell.

In the town where I was born, a 3-bed semi is about £150k upwards.
Where I lived as a teenager, they are £75k but there is little work locally.
Where I live now, they are £250k, but there is more work locally.
Where I worked as a teacher in London, a 3-bed flat would be £400k.

This gives you an indication of what they problem is.

Around our way a normal 3-bed terrace house is currently £250-£300k...