Teachers speaking out about parents' long working hours

[vestandknickers]

Here.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27027677

Interesting. I think it is good that this is being raised as an issue.

I am not anti working parents at all, but surely a society that thinks it is ok for children to be at school from 8am to 6pm needs to look at itself.

Hopefully it is still a small minority of children who spend five days a week at school for these hours, but it is good that teachers are speaking out before it becomes seen as an acceptable norm.

I think your point about vulnerability is very important, gennz.

Both DH and I work FT and we could live off one salary, but neither of us is willing to give up our own means to support ourselves (and the children) should anything happen. Loads of things could happen. My mother (who had to work more than one job for years after my parents split up) absolutely instilled in me that I should never give up my means to support myself (because we'd have been utterly screwed if she hadn't kept up her career).

Theoretically we could both go part time but that would be extremely foolish, as going PT in our job doesn't really seem to reduce anyone's workload in any meaningful way. They just pay you less and you still end up working FT. and you'll never get promoted either because of attitudes about needing to live for your work or you're not serious about it.

I'd wager that it's never as simple as people choosing gadgets over their children's wellbeing. Both of us working might give us money off eating out, holidays, whatever at the moment but it is the only way for us both to (try to) ensure that we can always support our children. That's just a different way of thinking about their wellbeing.

I was brought up in an area with very cheap housing. Getting a job there that is not minimum wage, is very difficult. I went to University and want to use my skills as does my partner.

Sure if we had stayed there my DP could maybe have got a job working the tills on the supermarket. But we both want more out of life. Unsurprisingly, where better jobs are available, house prices tend to be more.

Hello all.

Just coming back I noticed a few comments so thought I'd respond.

Firstly, I did say that I understood that everybody couldn't just up stix and move, but that some people can and it is a choice for some people.

The value of a sahp of course I see this as a good value otherwise I wouldn't be doing it, so I don't see anything wrong with commenting on what I see as good.

Chunderella

Yes, we bought our first house in 1992, they were a lot more reasonable then. However, paying a mortgage at 15% is not something many today would relish. But yes, deposits weren't so high, but just as unachievable in a short space of time, just like today.
We lived with friends for a couple of years and saved every penny for the deposit.

Chunderella

We moved in 2001 and prices had really gone up nationwide, we just managed the last move. I'm not sure we'll do it again, maybe to downsize one day.
I also think that house prices are more affordable around here and compared to other parts of the country young people seem to be struggling yes.
Of course it is still hard here, but about the same as us when we were starting out. Comparing my ds and his gf to me and dh starting out, it's pretty much the same.

struggling less, not yes

I think being a sahp is only good if you are providing a good example for your kids. Women having qualifications and never intending to use them is a terrible terrible example. It gives completely the wrong messages about the value of education for women. And the value of women in society.

Oh come on, buying a property in the early 90s was childs play. I got a 100 percent mmortgage on a flat in london, haing been in work four weeks! I was still a trainee, not even qualified. Plus I had no debt from university or law school. DH did the same.

As far as I remember though More Than you get a lot of tax credits which have enabled you not to work. I would be astonished if if 10 years time they existed. I think the next government will scrap them. So it will be harder for your son and his gf.

If that is true, MoreThan, how lovely you are able to enjoy the fruits of the taxation my household pays, so you can lounge around at home with your offspring whilst looking down on those of us who graft long hours on behalf of you and other shysters.

the other problem you have morethan is that you think your son will be able to buy a house but he hasn't actually done so yet.

with talk of interest rates rising in the next couple of years, I suspect it will not be as easy as you delight in telling everyone.

it is definitely not easy to buy a house!

i live in an expensive town im the south thats catching up with london prices. in my situation as a nursing student I could go up north and earn a similar amount when I'm qualified and get a much better value house, though I don't know what income dp would be able to get. But we can't move there are dsd 1 and 2 live in a town nearby and we wouldn't be able to afford to travel down to pick them
up every other week.

so we're stuck in the general vicinity.
where to get a house the size we'd need (at least 3 bedrooms) were looking at over £200,000. so for a 10% mortgage if we could even find one we'd need to have saved 20,000 at least plus moving costs, as if well be able to afford that in the next 5 years... my starting nursing wage will be 21,000 before tax. and what If things continue to go up...

I think it must be a bit easier to buy up here.
A years full time salary saved will pay for a deposit for a 2 bed terrace needing a bit of work doing to it. Which is exactly how me and dh managed it all those years ago. If it makes people better to think its harder then so be it.
Boffin
I don't look down on anybody, unlike yourself who think people not working for an employer are shysters. You are the one doing the name calling here.
bigkid
We have had no more tax credits than others with our income, we live frugally so I don't have to work. Plenty of people with our income have had to work because the tax credit wasn't enough for them. We could have had expensive holidays, cars, gadgets and childcare. The tax credits wouldn't have funded this lifestyle and yes I would have to have worked to pay for these.

But you do claim tax credits so that you can choose not to work, more than. And you have been on here telling people about your 'good values' (which you clearly do think are better than the values of those who choose to work) and how you put your children first (again, implying that others do not). It is quite unpleasant to look down on other women's choices, particularly when your own choices are only really possible because of all the other people (including the women whose values you're questioning) who do work and pay income tax into the shared pot. 'The state' is really just everyone else.

Of course, it's fine to rely on the state if you need to (most of us do in one way or another). But it's not really great to feel smug and superior for doing so.

A years full time salary saved will pay for a deposit for a 2 bed terrace needing a bit of work doing to it.

how do you do that and pay rent and eat?

The thing is, tax credits are designed to help people who are not able to earn sufficient income to not need them. You make it sound as though you choose to not earn sufficient income (although I wonder if that is actually the case). I can understand why boffin is a bit miffed. I'd prefer my tax money to be going supporting people who actually need it, not people who don't.

I'm not even really that bothered about whether the recipients of tax credits etc 'need' them. I'm just bothered about people smugly looking down at me for working and paying income tax when they can avoid doing so because of tax credits. That really sticks in my craw.

Calamitously

I don't feel smug or superior to anybody else. I just voiced my opinion on a public forum that was discussing the relevant report above.
Of course I think my values are good otherwise I would not be doing what I do. Are you not allowed to say you value work and childcare, because others don't? Of course not.
I haven't implied others don't put their children first, I do think if I was working I wouldn't be putting my dc first, which is my opinion.

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime

people were asking how my ds of 22 living at home and at his gfs parents house, would afford a deposit.
I replied, the same as we did, save a full years wage.
Of course you can't do it whilst paying a rent and other bills.
We shared a house with friends for a year paying the same as you would pay board to parents. My ds and his gf pay a small board and save the rest.

More than: you certainly manage to come across as smugly superior on this thread. I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Well, I apologise for how I come across. I certainly have nothing to be smug or superior about. I don't believe anybody to be more superior in this world.
I also believe everybody has different values that they hold dear to them. Just because people vary in their opinion doesn't mean they think themselves better.
I do believe that dc are better off with a sahp and agree with a lot the OP has said, that is my right, you all have your right to opinion too.

I don't really care what people do as long as they do it without depending on others financially. I do find it strange that you are dependent on the very people whom you feel are not putting their dc first. If everyone lived this way you wouldn't be able to!