What is a suitable punishment for a 6 year old?

[Wonderwoman]

'It's still going on you know; just thought that I would let you know' a mum said to me when I went to collect ds from school. I was flabbergasted. 'Are you sure?' I replied, 'I have spoken with ds and he was very apologetic!'Oh, yes' replied the mum with a hint of derision, 'Just thought that I would mention it!!'

Now to fill in the blanks. DS (who doesn't have a very good behaviour track record this term or last) has been teasing a classmate. Said clasmate's desperately worried mother had informed me of the incident, and I had dutifully promised that I would speak with ds, and assured her that it would not happen again.

Now having tried the discussion, shouting, cajouling, smacking, banning and all else, I am at a complete loss what to do and I AM SO ANGRY!! How would ds let me down like this!!

So when I ask, 'what punishment is suitable for a 6 year old', I mean punishment! I really desperately need ds to take responsibility for his actions, and to understand that ''no' means no, and that this behaviour is not acceptable.

Any advice, offers???

To be honest, I'd want to talk to his teacher before taking any further action. Have you (or the other Mum) spoken to the school? Have you asked your son for his version of the events. You may be getting a one sided story.

have you tried telling him how disapointed you are in him and what he is doing wrong and ask him why he does it even though he knows its wroong pus what my mother used to do with me was clear my room of everything except my bed and tell me to go there and not come out till i was ready to behave and used to work plus ask him how would he feel if a class mate started teasing him basicaly put him in there shoes and make him understand that its wrong to hurt others apartfrom that i havent got a clue sorry hope things start getting better for you soon
my love to you all it this hard patch

What are you so angry?

Because he let you down?

Because you don't want him to be seen as a bully?

You're worried what other parents are saying about him/ about you?

etc etc...

I would have thought that at 6 years old teasing was normal behaviour. Happens all the time at my DDs class?

Was it more than just teasing?

Also sounds as if you are having a consistency problem in that in trying everything you dont give any one thing time to work and have an effect.

Speak to the teacher. Find out what is going on before jumping on your son with both feet. You may find that it isn't still going on. If the "victim" got a lot of attention/sympathy when it happened before, he/she might well be spinning it out a bit. It is happening at school and so is a school issue. Check things out thoroughly first. Even if he is teasing this classmate, there might be a very good reason for it - such as a defence against something this classmate is saying.

How would punishment help?

Agree with others about finding out more.

What do you mean freckes by it's a school issue?
As a teacher I find that lots of parents have this view that if their child misbehaves at scool it is down to the school to deal with not the parents. You dont hand them over then bear bo resposibility for what they do. Teachers are not substitute parents but teachers.

BTW i didnt mean the school shoulnt get involved if there is a problem just that parents have to be involved also as in many cases they dont (not you wonderworm)

I do agree that you seem quite disproportionately angry. He is only six, and you only have another mother's word for it and she wasn't there either. And it is only teasing - he's not building a nuclear bomb or flying planes into tall buildings. I'm sorry if I sound flip, but I too wonder why you are quite so furious. The other mum doesn't sound very nice tbh - 'desperately worried' seems a tad strong too. Can you tell us a bit more about the background to this and why you feel so very strongly?

I didn't mean that the parents bear no responsibility, but it is sometimes difficult to deal with a situation which is happening out of your presence. If something is happening in school, the staff there are in a much better position to see what is going on and what might lie behind it. When children try to explain things, they can get muddled, confused or simply not describe things clearly. If the staff are witness to the events, you'll get a much clearer picture. Also, this type of behaviour (if it is happening) can be classed as bullying and bullying in school is most definitely a school issue.

I should add that I think it is for the school and the parents to work together to resolve this.

Also, when you say you had a discussion, what happened?

wish more parents had your attitude wonderwoman my hat's off to you.

Like others say though I would now speak to teacher(s) see if they can see what is actually happening. What does your 6 year old say when confronted now?

Thanks, I really appreciate the input!

The background is that over the past year ds has been involved in a number of incidents in and out of school, so I know he is no angel. And yes I feel as though I have tried every parenting approach to deal with is unruly behaviour, but seem to be getting nowhere. However, now, as a result of a recent number of playground fiascos, he is starting to get a 'reputation'. Now I am not fickle enough to pay any attention to the gate side gossip, but I am beginning to wonder whether I have a serious issue going on here (with either me or ds).

I have been in to discuss behavious with his teacher and headmistress, and they have been very supportive, but as someone mentioned, I am the parent, and I feel like I am now failing as a parent with a 6 year old child.

I have spoken with ds re the incident (as I do with all others!). One of his god saving graces is that he tells the truth and has confessed to the incident. When asked why he did it, he stated that he forgot that what we had spoke about (ie how hurt, sad etc friend must feel when being teased).

I have tried to speak with some of my adult friends who have children of a similar age, but none seem to be facing the problem that I am (or not yet anyway). And I know that I am disproportionately angry for all the reasons listed, but that is not the issue.

What I really want people to think about is how do you discipline/guide a child in the 21st century? Now I am not advocating going back to the good old days, and neither do dh and smack our children. However, I am concerned that if I cannot discipline a 6 year old, then god help me when he reaches puberty!!!! We all see terribly naughty children/teenagers who have gone off the rails, and surely mutter to ourselves 'not my ds/dd', or 'whatever were the parents like?'. However, these children must go off the rails at some point, and I am worried that my ds is going that way now.

I'm sorry wondermum but I still dont really get it!

Is he bullying or is he teasing there is a big difference IMO.

I know how much you want to get a handle on the issue - that comes across clearly from your posts - but is part of the problem that you are overreacting. So when he does something very very bad you've got no more steam left!

I would recommend a book which you can get from Amazon here it has revolutionised how I think about parenting and its no soft sop. I really do think you would get a lot out of it.

It sounds to me as if you are getting overly involved and taking too much responsibility for your sons actions. As a result he is not learning that he is a different person with his own responsibilities for his own behaviour.

I can sense how uptight you are feeling and am sending lots of cyper hugs and support your way. I really do hope you get to the bottom of all of this but I do think you might need to take some chill pills

I do think small children do forget. Please do speak to the teacher and get a handle on exactly what is going on. Please don't assume this is the start of his rocky road to prison - he is still very, very young and this may all be blown out of proportion. I think it's important he doesn't get labelled - by you or anyone else. Have you asked him about teasing in general, how it feels, how he feels when he teases. I think it is fine and good to say that it isn't nice or kind and you don't like it. But talk to the teacher first and if they do agree it is a cause for concern then agree a policy. Also, I do think once children get a label they can end up being blamed for all sorts. What other problems have you had with him? Is he uncontrollable at home? It certainly doesn't sound like it.

It sounds to me like there might be some underlying cause for the trouble at school. Is he having trouble with reading/writing/maths? Is he clumsy at sports? Is there a teacher who he doesn't like? My stepson had some behavioral problems at school at this age and it turned out to be all of the above. We spent some extra time teaching him his alphabet and when he got a new teacher in the fall, everything improved drastically, particularly his behaviour.

In my experience, behaviour changes for better or worse at children grow. So how your child behaves at 6 years is not a firm indication of how they will behave at 10 years. When he was 7 my son told me he was the naughtiest boy in his new school (there were only 150 pupils, but still...) and I got the feeling parents at the school gates saw him as a naughty boy, too. (they did see nice traits in him as well).

At the beginning of year 4, the head teacher (whom we had been called in to see on more than one occasion) told me that 95% of the children in his school were better behaved then my son. Can't put it more planely than that! He wasn't awful at home, just the usual 7 year old boy stuff. But when he went to school, he started chatting, got cheeky, got distracted, distracted others etc etc.

The upshot was that in year 4 my son had a home/school behaviour book. His teacher and I wrote comments about his behaviour in it each day, so we both knew what was happening and could punish, reward accordingly.

By the end of year 4 he was improving. He had a much better report from the head. The book was no longer needed in year 5. I have just come back from a parents meeting with his teacher. She told me he is doing well academically and also ( big sigh of relief) he is pretty well behaved in class. He is now by no means the naughtiest, and she can easily bring him back into line. Other boys are 'the naughty boys' this year. My son is fast losing his reputation.

I am not saying that the behaviour book worked wonders alone. In year 4, my son also had a grommit fitted so his hearing improved, he took fish oils which are meant to help concentration, his father began to collect him from school in the afternoons, and he really grew to like his excellent year 4 teacher, so perhaps worked harder at getting her approval.

Whatever you decide to do with your son, wonderwoman, please don't feel despondant about his behaviour never improving.

wonderwoman, I too think you must get to the bottom of this and find out what is really going on. My 6 yo ds came home recently to tell me he was being bullied. Now, when I questioned him vry carefully about this and asked exactly what had happened and what he wanted me to do about it (i.e. did he want me to speak to his teacher) he said that xxxx had been hitting him. When I pushed him (where? When? Did you tell an adult? What did they do? etc) he admitted that it wasn't really hitting but that he would like me to talk to his teacher about it. So I agreed and it turned out that xxx was a girl and what it was really about was ds was being kiss chased and she had got a bit over enthusiastic. The teacher had already spoken to this girl and she cried when it was mentioned and said she didn't mean it. So my point is that everything is very often not what is seems and despite the fact that my ds is mostly truthful and isn't in trouble at school, it turned out to not be anywhere near the big deal he was making it out to be. (he was happy with the outcome btw). Sorry, maybe a long winded way of making my point there!

I agree, you need to find out exactly what the problem behaviour is, with the teacher, i.e. not just taking this woman's word for it and then you need to see if the school will agree on a joint strategy if needs be. I also agree that you need to decide on a consistent approach with him. So maybe tell him (if this is what you agree with the school) that if you get a call from his teacher then xyz happens. And if you don't then abc happens - nice things happen if he's well behaved too. Might be worth trying a star chart I agree. And a behaviour book worked well for us too, as did 'House rules' typed up and stuck on our kitchen wall. These are things like "We use polite language" (i.e. no attitude/rudeness) etc.

Maybe I have missed something but I don't see what your ds has done that's so bad - teasing isn't terrible and is pretty much to be expected at this age. Can you tell us more?

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Wonderwoman - I've had experience of this with my 6 yr-old ds, from both sides of the fence.

Last Sept, another mum told me that my ds was one of a group of kids teasing her dd at school. I was really upset, and cldn't believe that my sweet, kind, gentle etc etc ds could possibly do such a thing! As it was, it turned out to be a mountain out of a molehill (like the kiss chase story below) and in fact it turned out this little girl had been attention-seeking because of other aspects in her life she was worried about.
I talked with ds about it all, and tried to make him understand how it feels to be on the 'other side' - which he seemed to take in. But it made me realise that human nature is flawed, that we have these 'perfect' babies, and then they become not-so-perfect, but it's all quite normal, and that we just have to try and guide them.

On the other side of the fence, there seemed to be an ongoing thing with another boy teasing my ds - this boy had a bit of a reputation already. I tried to say to ds, let's turn this round - you're likely to be with this boy for the next 10 years, so let's make an effort now. We did what Twiglett suggested, we asked him back for tea, and it went really well - so well that we extended it by a couple of hours. Since then, they're certainly not 'best friends' but there doesn't seem to have been any trouble. So, yes, I'd recommend trying out that idea.

My ds tells me about all sorts of fallings-out that he has with his friends. Sometimes it seems he hasn't played with anyone at breaktime, or the others wouldn't let him play with them. (Makes him sound a real wimp!) At first my heart used to clench each time, and I'd think, how can I protect him from all this? But, my ds doesn't seem unduly worried, he's quite matter of fact when he tells me, so I hope I'm right in thinking now that it's all just normal playground behaviour and that if he didn't play with them, he was quite happy playing alone. He seems to get invited for playdates and parties by these same boys he's just fallen out with, so it all works out in the end!

Is there sthg else your ds might be worried about at school? As SofiaAmes says, there may well be sthg you could help him with that could help with his concentration at school.

good luck anyhow, it's so tricky being a mum!

agree with Wicked Water Witch- may NOT be soooo bad...... however in my case with DS1 he kissed and licked everyone- or held them too tightly....at 6yrs parents were 'whispering' and then began 'complaining'... i spoke to teachers and told them who was complaining- they spoke to these parents individually and after that i kept well away from them all. In my opinion...if it were me- I would NEVER approach a parent directly- this can make the parent of the 'naughty' child feel so 'helpless' - it's far better to 'mention it informally' to the teacher and request that 'THEY' take ownership as far as 'other parents go'....and they then speak to those 'complaining' direct - again informally....and then 'if' these incidents are really 'trivial' then the parents should stop 'whinging'

My son now 10 turned out to have Asperger's syndrome (autism) so looking back we have an explanation for his 'intimidating' behaviour- however i still stay well away from THOSE parents who stood in the playground waving their fingers.

As far as 'punishment' goes...i would make sure that he 'deserves' punishment- as if (just maybe) he really has no idea or control over his actions- then to punish him would have no 'meaning' just cause him to feel confused.

I agree with Mrs forgetful - let the teacher intervene - as long as you trust the teacher to do this. If for any reason you don't think your son's class teacher is the right person to do this, how about asking to see the school's special educational needs co ordinator? This will probably be another teacher. You don't have to have a child with SEN to get their support, IME. They are there to help with any general behaviour issues at school as well.

I would hesitate about asking the classmate back home TBH. It might work really well but there is a risk, especailly as children get older. My son (9) is now very sure who his friends are, who he gets on with and who he doesn't. When he first expressed strong opinions and started to avoid some of the boys he knew, I didn't take him seriously. But when I saw them playing together at our home, I could see that they just did not jell together and my son was right.

At the moment, there's a boy in my son's class who teases my son - who then gets very wound up. I have seen this happen myself on 2 or 3 separate occasions. It is 50/50 - both boys are fine when they are not thrown together, but the teasing can be very hurtful, and extends to things said about dh and I. My son really does not like this boy, yet the boy asked if he could come round on a playdate - but I do not know how serious it was meant to be. He has been before once long ago and spent the time saying he was bored. I honestly feel if this boy came round and sees my son at home, he will use the knowledge to tease him more. Yet I have talked to this boy alone, helped on school day trips etc and he is a good kid, not some evil little monster. He is just not so nice to my son sometimes. I don't want to analyse the reason any more, but I would do nothing to throw them together. I chose to speak to the teacher about it and she keeps an eye on things. I do not approach his mother and she does not approach me, though I am pretty sure she's aware our sons do not mix well.

The problem with parents talking to each other directly about an issue between their children is that the parents then have difficulty dealing with each other in as friendly a manner as previously. Children, being children, will probably forget the incident and be best friends the following week, whereas the parents can't "get over" the issue. This is why it is often more practical to deal with the issue through the school. Something similar happened to me last year. DS2 was being bullied by another child. This child had a lot of problems - not of his making - and I tried to make allowances for this, but still had to do something to protect my own child. I spoke to the head teacher and we devised a strategy. Sometime later the other child's mother, previously very friendly, started avoiding me and I later heard that she was saying some nasty things about DS2. I saw her one day in Woolies and decided to deal with the issue. I didn't talk about the problem at all. Just chatted in a (probably over) friendly way and she eventually relaxed. We are now very good friends - as are our children. I don't think this would be the case if I'd approached her directly about her son bullying mine.

I'm not saying that the problem should be placed entirely in the hands of the school. But dealing with it through the school rather than directly with a child's parent is less likely to cause problems between parents.

Havig read your comments I feel that there is a lot of good advice in here! It is not however this one incident that has driven me to my pc. DS is constantly in the news (see below for todays latest example) so whilst I agree that it is important to understand the full picture, and not just take the word of an over-protective mother, I still feel like I am missing some crucial peice of parenting advice (did I miss NCT class 4 or soemthing!!!)

I don't feel that ds has any obvious 'problems' at home. He is very sporty (so much energy) and loves his computer games and the TV - no suprise there! He is OK with his school work, and doesn't overly complain when he has homework or reading to do. He is generally happy an pleasant, but does have a hot temper. The temper does not flare up on a daily basis, but we are working with him to help learn to control.

To be honest, I've gone full circle. There are times when I feel that the school is the problem; then I am the problem, or that my sone just has a problem with his behaviour.

Today I got a call from the school. DS had partially pulled down another boys trousers who then got terribly upset. DS said that he did it in retaliation (he was pushed); other child said he did nothing! Now I know that other child has cried wolf on occasions, so feeling rather gutted at being called on a Monday, I said so to the teacher. Teacher said that she would look into the matter some more. Also said teacher had informed me in case I was approached by other childs parents!! I then asked teacher what she had done/said to ds to reprimand him (afterall he should not have retaliated in any case). She was going to call him in from lunch beak for a little while (I got the impression that she was afraid to keep him in for much longer as she would have todeal with a class full of pent up testosterone otherwise all afternoon!)

I will now obviously have to speak to ds this afternoon after school. I now however feel that I am always on his case. What do you do when all other options (star chart, banning treats etc) have failed?