Routine that works for a 5-year-old and a newborn - please help - desperate!

[RebeccaJames]

Hi there all. I'm trying to find a way forward for my month-old DS2 who is not sleeping more than 1 hour at a time still.

In desperation I turned to my old Gina Ford book to try and thrash out a basic routine, but of course with my DS2 (5) I can't stick to the times given. Does anyone out there have a rough routine of feeding/sleeping times for a month-old (or thereabouts) that works with the older child?

I am just so tired that I can't see the wood for the trees and need to have something rough to aim at. We're still in freefall and DS2 should be sleeping a little better by now. I need to have a pattern to aim at, so if you have something that is working for you, please, please share!

A month is quite early to get much of a routine going, but try working on a 2 hour pattern. Feed, nappy, play and lay down in cot/moses basket. Try aiming for a 7.30am morning feed and then hopefully nap will happen as you take to ds to school and ds will fall asleep in the car seat/buggy. It shouldn't be long before his naps get a bit longer too.

Agree about 2 hourly routine. Forget specific times and just start from wake up - baby whisperer routine is easier as it is not based on specific times.

What are the bits that you are particularly struggling with? Presumably the 5 year old is at school in the day?

Does the baby feed to sleep? Can you feed before school run time and then straight into pram/car for a sleep on the journey?

I have a three month old and a two year old. I like you was desperate for a routine but it didn't come til baby hit around 10 or 11 weeks. This is normal. You might need to just ride the tide til he's a little older.

Then the naps get a little more predictable and the feeds are more spread out.

Those first few weeks are so tough. At 3 months it's much easier. Promise.

Stick baby in sling. Feed when baby needs it. Baby can sleep in the sling when you're out and about.

As baby gets closer to 5/6 months a much more structured routine will emerge.

Is your oldest at school? That will help as you're out twice a day. In between, rest with baby.

Yes, DS1 at school, which is why GF timings wouldn't work, because of the school run.

Struggling because he feeds so much more often than 4- or even 3-hourly. He doesn't spend any awake time - just feeds and feeds and then has short sleeps of no more than an hour at a time. So I never sleep more than an hour at a time either :-(. He just doesn't seem able to stay asleep and have a deep sleep, and I thought if I had some timings to aim for, perhaps sleeps would get longer, feeding timings more defined and awake times start to emerge.

I tried to put him to bed at 7 but needless to say he was awake by 7.30 again. :-( :-(

Do you walk dc to school? If so,.try and squeeze a feed in while they are eating breakfast, baby in the pram and walk to school then just keep walking til they wake. The fresh air and movement will probably.make the LO sleep longer, then home for a feed and a play.

Thats all I can think to add atm. Are you bf or ff?

Does he seen uncomfortable? Windy?

Is he sleeping next to you? Or in a basket?

Is he breastfed? Being on and off the breast with short sleeps in between is pretty normal at this stage - I wouldn't expect 4 hour gaps until he is well established on solids tbh!

Have you tried taking him to bed with you in the day, so you can nap together and he has nipple access?

1 month is very young for a bedtime. Can you keep him with you in the evenings to feed/doze til you go to bed? At least then you can watch TV and eat dinner without being up and down to try to settle him.

I do walk DS1 to school, a mile each way. Baby sleeps in the pram but does wake halfway through. He doesn't seem uncomfortable, just wants to be on the boob, but doesn't feed efficiently and isn't gaining fantastic weight. I have given formula after each bf yesterday and today in desperation (hoping the answer lies in hunger) but it's no different today.

I try to sleep him in the hammock next to the bed at night, after after initial sleep of 1.5 hours he just doesn't go into a deep sleep and I give up after a couple of hours of feed/short sleep/feed/short sleep (and I mean short, at 10-20 mins) and put him in the bed with me. During the day I try him in the carry cot but he won't stay asleep unless he's on me, and even then it's only an hour.

This morning I burst into tears in front of a complete stranger, and that is soooooo unlike me, who always acts like all is ok. I don't have the strength to jolly along like that at the mo.

Illyadrin, tonight I have let him doze on me, as you said. He seems very sleepy, which is annoying because when I tried to put him down at 7pm I tried to sleep too. I will feed him again at 10 and see how it goes but it will probably be the same.

Btw I do swaddle, so already trying that. My mum has ordered a poddle pod for me in hopes that will help but probably it isn't much different to the hammock.

Btw when I say I put him in the bed with me, that doesn't work either. I fall asleep with him feeding and he comes of the breast not long after, and I have to wake to relative him. He doesn't seem able to relatch by himself.

Canyou get to a bf counsellor? Because the low weight gain, sleepiness etc could be fine but could be a sign of tongue tie. Tongue is restricted so they can't get the milk out.

I also found with my second, I didn't have the luxury of long feeds. But when your ds is at school, let baby snooze on the boob feeding on and off.

tongue tie info

Honestly, I think maybe the issue here is more about expectations. A 3-4 hourly routine, defined nap times in a cot, 7pm bedtime sounds more normal for a 6 month old than a newborn to me.

Everything you have said about your baby sounds perfectly normal - they need to feed frequently, they are designed to want to sleep on/next to you.

When you say he isn't feeding efficiently, is that long feeds? Do you switch feed - offering the other side every time he comes off or falls asleep? Has he been checked for tongue-tie?

Went to bf counsellor yesterday and he isn't tongue tied. She was a bit stumped and suggested a nursing supplemented but I don't have the wherewithal to sort and learn that.

I try to snooze with him on the boob but as I say he doesn't relatch on his own and keeps needing my help. I also find I get uncomfortable side-feeding -my top leg really starts to ache! But I am tired enough to sleep through that. The main impediment is his need for my help to relatch.

I found the adjustment from one to two hard as I had been focused on dd. I'm not really a GF person but used her baby and toddler book to help me get ideas of how to manage things, like balancing bathing both.

www.amazon.co.uk/Contented-Baby-Toddler-Book/dp/009192958X

I have just had dc 3 and have to do school runs etc. I'm using a soft stretchy sling, baby snuggles up and sleeps and I have hands free to juggle children and bags and things. I have done full days out with them all on tubes on buses just manouvering baby from a bfing position to a sleeping position (which is upright so he burps too !) I really wish I had used one with previous babies, I borrowed it from a sling library first to try then bought one on ebay.

www.mobywrap.com/s.nl/sc.16/.f

I know what you mean about expectation it should I really only still get 2 hours' sleep a night at 4.5 weeks? Everything I read and hear suggests more like 2-3 wakings a night is realistic? Not 10+?

I think if I had tried to make DS sleep away from me at that age he would have woken very frequently. He slept much better next to me.

Was she certain? My dd was and it took so many visits to get it diagnosed. I saw three bf counsellors.

2-3 night wakings is a bit unrealistic - I don't know anyone who managed that at 5 weeks. 10 is a lot though.

Thinking about night feeds at about 6ish weeks, I guess we went to bed about 10pm-11pm and DS had a feed at about 3am, 5am and 7am. But also I think he probably stirred more often and needed shushing or cuddling. It was about 6 weeks before he got the hang of latching on without help too.

It sounds absolutely normal to me to be honest! I thought that's what all newborns were like, feeding 24/7.

I had an almost five year gap and I think you do forget a lot so I understand, but honestly that's what babies do!

TheGreatHunt, yes, she seemed certain. She mentioned his recessed chin as a reason for his not-great latch and showed me a better position, but essentially his poor weight gain has made me lose confidence in BFing anyway. I'm trying to tandem-feed so that he still gets some of my good stuff.

Ilyadrin, he doesn't sleep any better next to me than in the hammock, where I still sleep with my hand next to his face or holding a foot. And I'd be so happy if he went 11pm-3am! I get 10-11 or 11.30 if I'm lucky, then 20-minute bursts the rest of the night.

I can't work out if this is really normal and I should adjust my expectations (although I still don't see how I can go on like this) or if there is something wrong and a problem to solve.

How poor has his weight gain been? Have you tried a dummy?