If your baby is a 'sleeper' please could you tell me...

[Bumbolina]

What the fuck you do differently to me
I'm asking those that say "my kid just started sleeping through at 4 days old" etc etc

Dc2 is now 3 weeks 5 days old. This morning he was awake from 8.00-12.30... could not/would not sleep no matter what I did (fed, rocked, sung, put down and left alone, burped, changed - basically everything I cod think of). He finally dropped off and is still asleep now, and is showing no signs of stirring soon so it will probably be a 3-4 hour block of sleep. At night he'll do no more than an hour at a time.

I am ebf. This is my second - my first fed hourly day and night for the first 6 months and still doesn't sleep through at 2.5. Last night they were tag teaming keeping me awake.

So I want to know from those of you whose kids slept - did you have to work at it?? I'm not interested in leaving to cry. I want to know the basics. Did you use dummies? If so - how? Do you shove it in when they look tired and hope they suck themselves to sleep? Did you "pat shush", did you feed to sleep? If you did when/how did you transfer. Did you wake them/amuse them in the daytime so they'd sleep at night?

Basically did you do anything at all - or were your kids just on the ball when it came to sleep?

Please tell me. There must be something I'm doing wrong. My mil definitely thinks so!

Bet you're not doing anything wrong. at all

My dd started sleeping through at about 12ish weeks. She'll hardly sleep at all during the day though.

At that stage white noise apps and strategically timing when the dryer was on worked for us.

Euan the Sheep - google it

Your mil can't remember. I forgot about the baby stage in less than 3 years. ime 7 weeks was when they started sleeping in the evening and again I've blanked anything before. The thing people forget is v the resettling after night feeds, because it gradually gets easier. One thing that really makes me laugh though is in terms of my mum's account df actually remembers sitting in the lounge with me when I was tiny.

"sleeper" ?
what's that ?!

(is it like a railway term?)

and your first was probably just a bad sleeper.

We've got one We tried everything the first time round. Everyone kept telling me the second one might sleep better... that doesn't appear to be the case... I'm sure I'm missing something important!

3 weeks?!
DD is 2 years and she's probably slept through the night for a total of 3 weeks in that entire time.

the way you deal with it is this - as soon as you stop comparing your baby to others; as soon as yo ustop listening to people who say you need to make the baby sleep, or their baby slept, or that you should o this that and the other; as soon as you accept that the baby will be awake quite a lot because they sleep when they need sleep ; as soon as you realise that babies can't tell the time, nor do they understand this whole light and dark thing; as soon as you say, "fuck it, baby come into bed with me and I'll cuddle you", then you'll get more sleep, then you'll stop stressing and then you'll start to enjoy your tiny weeny baby.

(it took me a few weeks, but we realised that this had to happen if DH was to get some sleep to get up in the morning and for me to function as a human being)

Nickel - if you'd bothered to read my op I have a 3 week old and a 2.5 year old. Neither of whom sleep.

I don't actually expect my 3 week old to sleep through ffs. Just sleep, sometimes.

Oh and nickel. I co-sleep when needed, I put in a Moses basket when that works. I wear a sling. I enjoy my baby. I'm of the baby led variety.

I did your OP - I just missed the bit about the 2.5yo until I re-read it (i didn't re-write or anything because what I said is very valid).

I'm just trying to help - I know you're worn down by no sleep, but it's so easy to be led by what other people say, epecially when you've also got a toddler who doesn't do what other toddlers do.

Seriosuly, carry on as you are - don't worry about the lack of sleep - it's been shown in studies that most children don't sleep through every night (having "crap" nights' sleep at least 3 in 7) until they're about 5.

And I never said that I thought you wanted your 3wo to "sleep through" - I know you mean sleep at all, I was just putting my experience down. (which, incidentally also might help with your worry about your 2.5yo - it's normal, it's perfectly normal)

I was not being arsey with you - I was trying to be sympathetic, - you know what, I'm tired too! I'm fed up with not being able to sleep all the way through the night, and I've got the added bonus of a whinging, whining itchy, scratchy eczema toddler, who thinks that the best way to spend the night is by scratching herself till she bleeds, and when I stop her, she screams the house down. and then wants fucking yoghurt.

The whole point of my post was that you just have to let it slide.
yes, someone might give you some hints on how to get the baby to sleep, but they won't be baby-led, and they will probably involve leaving either child to self-settle.
it's not you want, and you've already indicated that.

You might find it easier to let itslide if you know that actually, more people have lack-of-sleepers than have sleepers.

Thank you nickel, and sorry, my main point of the post was just to see if I'm missing something that the parents of naturally sleepy kids do. Tbh it was to find out if in fact the 'they just naturally slept' kids are actually 'we coerced, and then they slept' kids. I can't imagine being able to just lay either of my kids down to sleep... but people seen to suggest that this works for some babies!!

Now pooing... my 3 week old could win awards for that wanders off to change the 3rd pooey nappy in an hour

they're definitely "we coerced they slept"

I have a friend whose baby slept through from 6 weeks because she put her in the same room as the baby's grandparents who were totally deaf and slept through any noise. (not deliberately)

you beat me on the nappies though :)

It's mostly luck. But I had a 'sleeper', so for what it's worth this is what I did...

Breasted, with the exception of one bottle of formula which was given as a dreamfeed around 11pm from the age of 5 weeks.

Swaddled, for night and for naps.

Kept room very dark at sleeps, when I did night-feeds I would do it with the barest minimum of light.

Used a dummy until around 5 months, when she started to settle without it.

I set a time in the morning which I considered to be a reasonable time to start the day (think it was 6.30am). If she woke before that I would feed and resettle. If it didn't work, I would stay with her in the dark until morning time.

Had a consistent bedtime for her from about 5 weeks old.

She has been an amazing sleeper since she was about 8 weeks old - but yes, am sure a lot of it is good fortune.

Nothing I did-they were both so jaundiced after birth they could do nothing else, and seem to have hung on to the habit.

Actually, they get more disturbed sleep as toddlers (bad dreams, too much snot, too hot, too cold, fell out of bed, bored, need water, want to play, sleepwalking out of the bedroom then waking up on the landing because the carpet is too scratchy, coughing) than they ever did as babies.

It's not you, you just get the baby you get, by and large, and yours don't have much in the way of a sleep function. But that could change at any time. Courage, in the meantime.

Top tip: staying calm (hah!). Detaching just enough emotionally not to get so wound up they pick up on it and cry even more. I used to daydream about all sorts on the odd occasion I did have to try and lull them to sleep.

Starting from the evening I did the following.
Big feed at about 7, then no feeding until 11, then big feed, up to bed in Moses basket/cot either awake or if nodded of at the end of the feed. Baby woke once during the night until 8 weeks and did a quick feed in the dark with no nappy change then straight back in the cot. Next feed morning, lights on, downstairs, noisy, day time starts. My 3 all dropped the night feed at 8 weeks and slept 12 hours by 10-12 weeks. During the day I put them down for naps awake rather than let them nod of in my arms first so they learnt to fall asleep by themselves.

I have to vehemently disagree with you, Nickel.

With DD I really didn't coerce or ignore. I put her in her cot and she slept.

We had a good routine with her, put her in PJs even for daytime sleeps so she was comfy, feed, sleeping bag thingy, dummy, bed.

She would snuffle and snort a bit then go to sleep for several hours. Not in the first weeks, but she soon has a good routine.

From about 14 weeks she slept through the night, from 10pm to 6am.

We were smug about our parenting abilities until we had DS, who didn't sleep through till he was 2 1/2yrs (although he did nap during the day, but never at the same time as DD).

Some babies sleep, some don't sleep. I think doing the routine thing is good, as it gives them signals that it is time for bed, but I don't think all babies get the signals.

My two were both sleepers and we were given some very good advice when DS was born in the US. They said all babies have one 'long' period of sleep and you want to try and get this into the night time. So we tried not to let him sleep for more than a few hours in the daytime. It wasn't always easy - once we really really couldn't wake him, but it did happen. He was EBF and we also swaddled, which I think did help.

I also did night feeds lying in my bed with him snuggled next to me. I think we were lucky that he was a thumb-sucker so did self-soothe.

Some.babies sleep, some dont.

Mine was a sleeper and whilst I absoloutley cannot claim that what I did made her sleep, it may be something you want to try.

Firstly, I swaddled. I used a giant muslin. All sleeps.
Secondly, I timed baby. 30 mins (at that age) after she woke, she was swaddled and laid in her basket. Obviously this gap was sometimes just a feed and burp waking, but some.other times she was on my chest, in her bouncer, on her playmat.

More.often than not (99/100 times) she slept within a few mins in her basket. Usually for around 45 mins, then the cycle started again. If she gabbled on,.I left her to it. Only if she was upset would I gently pat her on the chest and shhh her.

Bedtimes the same. Only all sleeps after 7pm were with the lights dimmed (in living room) or dark (in bedroom after ten/eleven with us). Others would do it but I still had a bedtime routine, of a bath, cuddles and milk,.then swaddled and down.

Important things to know at that age is they wont be awake long and they wont be asleep long.

I also agree that its seems to be luck. DS2 improved when I put a routine in place and started to put him in bed at 6.30 every evening rather than sitting with him asleep on me while I watched TV. He has always loved his bed and been happy to lie there signing for ages before asking for attention, he is still the same age 4. DS1 was not too bad to get to bed but would wake regularly for food through the night and always woke crying.
Neither DC slept through till easily age 3, DS2 still wakes sometimes at night. We never cried it out and always bf on demand also had them in our room till 6 months or so.
Sorry no magic recipe, I also remember being absolutely knackered for the first 8 wks or so.
I do believe that they learn the difference between day and night very quickly, so never encouraged much activity in the middle of the night.

2 of my 3 were mega-sleepers. My first, dd1, slept 10 hrs through the night at 1.5 days old. I had no idea that babies could do that (things noone ever tells you). I don't feel I can really take any credit for this. I hadn't even started thinking about parenting and sleep habits.

Dd1 is still a super-chilled person, aged 13 now. She was just born with her emotions set to relaxed.

My two were both sleepers. DD was first and took until she was about six weeks to stop waking every three hours (I think that was about how long it took her massive ventouse scab to fall off, which may have had something to do with her general grumpiness). DS slept from 9pm until midnight (feed), midnight until 6am (feed) and then until we all got up around 9am, with general naps all day.

I don't remember what I did with DD, we moved house around the time she was born and it's all a bit of a blur, but with DS we made a really clear choice to cosleep and to make sure that we didn't try to get him into bed until much later in the evening. I think I originally tried to get DD down at 7pm or something daft, and discovered through trial and error that she wants to go to sleep about 9pm and earlier than that just results in screaming fits.

From about 7pm or so I would cluster feed the hell out of DS, just sit in front of the telly with him at one breast or another. I have a good milk supply, which I do think helped, and he was a big baby compared to scrawny DD. She slept much better once she hit 9lbs. DS was born at nearly that and never really lost any weight and was noticeably cheerier than poor scrawny battered DD. DS would drop off around 9pm, stay downstairs with us until we went to bed and then have another sleepy feed before I put him in the bedside crib. I think keeping them both with us helped them get used to a certain amount of background noise and light. Or of course it could be total bollocks, who knows.

Both drop off with no problem whatsoever if put to bed at 8.30pm now (2 and 4 years old), but any earlier or much later and they're monstrous. And when either of them has an ear infection it's a whole other story! DD went through a phase of waking up about 6am, but full time education seems to have knackered her out and we have to get them both out of bed around 8am to have their breakfast and get to school. They very rarely have a daytime nap now, and DS dropped his regular afternoon nap at about 18 months.

FWIW, I am the only person I know with sleepers. Probably explains why I thought it was a good idea to get pregnant again nine months after having DD.

I had four good sleepers. Which is probably mostly luck. But I did some of the same stuff as WillSing such as swaddled for all sleeps and put in darkened room with a fairly consistent bedtime. I also breastfed.

What I think really helped was having a very clear cycle of feeding and sleeping: feed, a little bit of time awake, then put down for a nap. I tried to think 'pattern' rather than 'routine' - the idea being that they would learn what was coming next which worked, because it got to the point where they would start yawning as soon as I started swaddling them.

The most important thing for my babies was trying to get as much food into them as possible for each feed - which often meant changing them halfway through to wake them up again, not letting them get too warm (removing clothes, letting the room be quite cool), and keeping putting them on the breast until I could see they were only sucking for comfort (when they stopped swallowing). It took a long time to feed them (over an hour), and was obviously easiest with my PFB when I didn't have any others to look after. I didn't feed in bed at night because I wanted to be awake enough to make sure they had very good feeds even at night.

After the first two weeks I tried never to feed them to sleep but after a bit of time awake, when they started to get jerky and tired looking, I swaddled them and put them down in the basket. Then (you won't like this bit) I let them cry for a few (10-20) minutes - except that the vast majority of the time they didn't cry or only whinged for a minute, because they were tired but not exhausted, and had very full tummies and tucked in arms and were ready to sleep. I could deal with a little bit of crying because I knew what they really needed was sleep and nothing else so picking them up was counter-productive. They very quickly learned to settle themselves and then the wake times were much better because they were very rested.

I kept the feed, wake, sleep cycle going day and night, except for making the wake bit non-existent at night. They slept through consistently from between 8 weeks and 6 months, getting worse with each child - but I think that was mostly because the younger ones had their patterns messed up by having to do school runs, etc. I tried to keep feeds to a cycle - not less than 3 hourly and not more than 4 (from beginning of one feed to the beginning of the next one), and counted anything before 6.30-7am as night time and like WillSing tried to resettle if possible.

Sorry, that's far too much detail. I did have very healthy babies with big appetites and no other issues and I know that is not the case for everyone. All the best with your two.

Meant to say the 3-4 hourly thing only counted during the day - I did not wake them up to feed at night but I did in the day if I could see that the nap was getting so long we wouldn't be able to fit enough feeds in before bedtime.

And I counted the last feed of the day as the 11pmish one and once they slept through to 7ish consistently I moved it forward gradually.

we had 2 boys treated them exactly the same (well nearly) and yet ds1 slept for 6 hours a night from about 5 ish weeks and ds2 slept for 6 hours a night from 10 months.!!!!

can't help sorry but can sympathise.

I made the nights quite short and at the right time. I had friends whose babies were all settled by 7/8 in the evening then had a lovely long sleep until about 2 in the morning and then were unsettled after that. Like a poster said earlier try and get the long sleep bit when you sleep, I went for midnight to 6 am and then it gradually got longer.

I'm only reinforcing those above who said "luck".

That's all it is.

One thing you can do is take every moment as it comes.
Be present.
When your baby isn't sleeping, or is. Or crying, or puking or being utterly adorable or all of those things. Be in the moment.

Don't think about the night ahead, count hours of sleep or imagine how you're going to function the next day, the next day doesn't exist til you're in it.

(This got me through nights of being up with a very pukey newborn, an infected csection wound and a bedwetting drama llama of a two yr old)