3 day old on continual cycle of Breast feed then sick routine

[kernow13]

Hello
Please can anyone give advice?? 3 day old breast feeding ok, just perfecting latch on. Problem is she vomits up lots after every feed & then is hungry and wants immediate feed again. Secondly this tends to happen all through the night. She sleeps a lot of the day. Saw midwife today who advised she is getting a good supply of milk from me, but I am getting tired & sore huge hard breasts & an upset baby. Any tips?
She hates being put in Moses basket too, possibly as she is on her back? We have tilted it but she only seems to settle by being held upright.....thanks for reading:)

It could indicate an intolerance of something you are eating. You could look in to eating a clean diet (possibly paleo) for a month to see if it makes a difference to her. Things like cow's milk and gluten in mum's breast milk can cause painful digestive upset to a lot of babies.

Her resistance to being lay in her moses basket may be because of physical discomfort, but could also be because she is much more comfortable and secure when she is in constant contact. Separating ourselves from our babies is a very modern concept and most babies haven't gotten round to reading the latest Gina Ford offering . If you are up for it, you could look into bed sharing - you might have a happier baby and more rest.

If she won't settle lying down at all, I really feel for you (been there). Have you got a (front-facing) sling that you can put her in? Try to give her froggy legs. Walk her to sleep and then sit down. Make sure her little face is clear/uncovered and pointing up a bit, then try to rest. You could take turns. If you haven't got a sling you could still try this, but she might fall off! So you'll probably want to take turns. The other person can be the look out! Otherwise, make sure that you are sleeping in the day time when she is.

Hope everything goes well op, and congratulations!

Great advice above re: settling. It will just take a little time. As will the nocturnal thing - in a few weeks baby will adapt to having routines, just remember they haven't done it before and try to relax when you can.

On the milk thing if MW is happy then you may just be describing a perfectly normal baby eating routine. They often bring up a little (sometimes LOT) of milk with a burp (which can be uncomfortable/scary for them and mean some grizzling) after eating and then, once the air pocket has cleared, have a bit of space for more milk. That is why you see new parents with sick-y shoulders and more experienced ones with muslins draped over them!

It's a bit early to start thinking about intolerances - she doesn't know she's born yet. Can you imagine what a strange place she finds herself in? Having to request food rather than being fed on tap 24/7 and having to deal with gravity and breathing?!

It's quite normal for newborns to not settle anywhere but mum or dad's chest in the early days (they love the sound of your heartbeat and the warmth) and to be almost entirely nocturnal.

Is your milk coming in? That might be why your boobs feels so sore. That will pass once your supply settles down.

Re: the sickiness, I agree with PP that it would be pockets of wind, that once emptied need refilling. Can you wind her mid feed?

She could also be cluster feeding to establish your supply.

You do need expert advice to establish whether the sickiness is a reflux/feeding issue or a laundry issue. If you ask MN to move this post to the breast feeding topic, you'll get some brilliant advice from some excellent MNers.

Congratulations on your LO.

Don't restrict anything from your diet, you are recovering from birth and feeding a baby and need all the nutrients you can get. Make sure you are eating and drinking well.

If it is day 3, your milk has just come in? Your hormones will likely be all over the place and you will probably feel dreadful, weepy and like everything is all going wrong. Look after yourself, the hormones do pass!

Babies feeding all the time, babies being sick after feeds and babies not wanting to be put in a Moses basket away from mummy are all normal. If you think she is being sick more than is usual, ask your midwife to observe a full feed, including the being sick. Muslins are your friend here. Wind can make babies sick, so you could try winding her halfway through a feed when you switch breasts.

Your breasts being hard and sore is normal when your milk comes in too, take some paracetamol to help, it does settle down. If baby is having problems latching on due to them being hard, hand express a bit off first to make them softer.

has your milk come in? If you have sore, hard boobs it may be that your milk is going to come in and that helps settle them

My DD slept on me for the first few days and then we co slept for 15 weeks or so - babies wnat to be near their mums and dads - it's very normal

I would not start to exclude things from your diet at this very early stage

The vomiting is could be due to mucousy stuff from birth and trapped wind

Day 3 is feed all day and night to get your milk in. 2 of mine posseted all the time one got way worse when she went on bottles the bf fella stopped after a number if weeks I cannot remember exactly how long. All very normal you are doing brilliant.

DD is very sicky, and it seemed the whole feed was coming up, but it just looks like more than it is. She also fed constantly and still won't sleep if she isn't on one of us so don't panic!

There is a difference in posseting and lots of sick - I would establish which it is and if you think it's abnormal, then ask your MW or GP (make sure it's a GP who is pro breastfeeding as others might advise you give formula!!)

I think at this early stage, it's most likely to be a reflux problem but then without seeing quantities of sick it's hard to gauge. To be honest, it seems unlikely that at 3 days old, your milk will be fully in. Generally it's days 2-5 but more often than not day 3/4. It may be that she's taking lots as your milk comes in and is then throwing some back up. Once your milk flow settles a bit over the next few days, then her sickness should lessen.

DD1 acted the same as the op's DD, I was told it was normal, burp her more etc. Feed. Burp. Fuss. Feed. Burp. Fuss. Fuss. Fuss. By 9 months I was jogging round the block with her in a sling at the same time as breastfeeding and singing to her for an hour and a half most nights just to get her off to sleep.
DS2 was in the neonatal care unit for 8 weeks after he was born, and I realized that DD1's behavior was NOT normal. If a baby had behaved as she did on the ward there would have been an investigation and a solution. I could leave a baby grow in DS2 all day and it was still clean when I took it off him in the evening. I think he was sick one time - because he was ill. DS3 the same.
People are going to say, yes but all babies are different. And that is true. Babies have different temperaments. But I can't help thinking that repeatedly vomiting their only life source would be a very strange 'normal' from an evolutionary perspective, and that modern foods are in a lot of cases the root cause of this common - modern - phenomenon.
I suggested cutting out the common culprits now, but the op could just as well wait and see if things change.

My baby threw up loads at three days old too, I posted a similar thread worrying about reflux. It settled down into normal posseting as she got to grips with drinking milk and she was absolutely fine.

Ok first question how are her nappies? Is she doing lots of wet and dirty nappies? Are her poos mustardy yellow, or still blacky or greeny? And how is her weight (if you've weighed her yet)

If she is doing plenty of wet and dirty nappies, and poos are coming through yellow, that suggests she's getting enough despite being sick. hopefully the sick will calm down once her tummy gets used to being used/she works out how much to feed.

if not, you need to get her seen by a doctor.

minipie questions are key ones OP.

Sickeness in babies can vary and can be really normal; in rare cases it can be an indication of something else.

If your milk has come in, have you got a fast 'let down'? That's when your baby suckles and your body 'releases' milk and it flows quickly. It can feel tingly and sometimes a bit strange. It's it's fast, it could be overwhelming baby, making her be sick more.

I had a sucky baby and she'd suck suck suck - which of course is what you want to build your supply. But she'd over feed and throw up always good fun. We resorted to her sucking my little finger (clean) for the first 2 weeks.

If you threw an egg cup of milk on the kitchen floor it would look loads, liquid always looks more than what it is, so she may be bringing up what she's over feeding perhaps.

Really does sound normal - DS2 is 3 weeks old and we still have the occasional full, fresh feed straight back up when he's had eyes bigger than his tummy - but he's happy (well, he does get miffed when it comes out of his nose), he's pooing and weeing plenty, putting on weight, and I know he's fine (ie. it's not reflux or intolerance, just him getting used to eating).

Hard boobs is normal too while everything settles down - give it a couple of weeks and things will get better (I don't get hard boobs now, although I do still leak for instance)

DS2 also fed all night at first which made my milk come in very quickly with a fast letdown - I'm comparing this to my first which took a week to come in and was much more gentle - so he gulps and sometimes chokes a bit, and it's very easy for him to get too much.

I agree with noble that it's far to early to be cutting things out of your diet - plus it takes weeks for those to actually flush all the way out by which time it's way more likely that milk and baby will have all settled down and evened out anyhow.

As a mum of 3 who had reflux I have some advice.
To establish if it is proper reflux and not just a sicky baby.
Does she fuss at the breast? Does she seem to pull off and squirm and look uncomfortable, off and on, off and on. If yes and if it gets worse it is definitely reflux and she will need Omeprazole.

Gaviscon doesn't work with breast fed babies and Omeprazole is the more expensive drug (and most effective).
Not all reflux babies loose weight, in fact my middle child fed and fed and fed and looked like a mini sumo in weeks of birth after only weighing 6lbs.
Sometimes they use it to comfort the pain as breast milk has a natural gaviscon effect albeit temporary!

It then comes back up with a whole load of stomach acid and off the cycle goes again.
DO NOT RE FEED AFTER SHE IS SICK. She needs at least 2 hours from one feed to the next and not sticking to this will only exasperate the problem. If any breast feeding natzi's jump in with 'babies should be fed on demand' then this was advice from many a pediatrician who dealt regularly with reflux. Even a baby without reflux should not be fed one feed on top of another as the digestion system is way to immature and needs the time to digest the last feed.

I bet when you make sure this happens the problem will disappear. There is every chance she doesn't have reflux (GERD) and is just being fed too often.

I know she will seem to want this soothing feed routine but she hasn't worked out the fact that it is causing her discomfort.

I had to walk the floor from feed to feed with my refluxers. It was hard, hard work but it doesn't last long and you will see her calm down once the feeds are spaced.

I hope she doesn't have it but if she does, you know the signs and you now know not to be palmed off with gaviscon!

Raise the moses basket quite significantly, 4/5 books each leg. Once she is 4 weeks you can sleep her on her tummy, she will be able to lift and turn her had no problem. I did this with my last two - as long as you don't smoke? 95% of cot deaths are to smokers.

Sleep with her on your tummy just now if you can. I got rid of my husband, the pillows and wore a light fleece and the duvet just over my legs. I positioned myself right in the middle of the bed. She will be a hot water bottle and you will sleep very still and soundly if you are tired enough, im sure you are! She will sleep longer and happier like this and you can try the basket again in a few weeks.

Don't lie her in a flat pram. Keep her in a carrier if you can for now.

It will all pass soon enough. Don't over worry about what you should and shouldn't do. Do what keeps her happier and you saner!

Congratulations though, id have a forth - even with reflux!!

Pleas don't put her to sleep on her tummy, the back to sleep campaign reduced cot death by a significant amount; regardless of smoking it's a huge risk factor.

Are her nappies plenty wet, yet?

I used to stagger DS feeds, so basically distract him a bit so that he could digest, he was prone to overfeeding & then explosive vomitting he had too much at once.

Pleas don't put her to sleep on her tummy, the back to sleep campaign reduced cot death by a significant amount; regardless of smoking it's a huge risk factor.

If I was told there was a lower mortality rate associated with sleeping on a clothes line I wouldn't necessarily be dusting it off. We could start picking apart the statistics but I don't think it would be constructive because there are obviously other things to consider when a parent makes decisions like this. I understood the philosophy behind princess saying 'do what makes her happier and you saner', and I think there's something to be said for it.

Fwiw NICU's throughout the country use 'positioning', including front and side lying to promote the physiological and physiological well being of newborns.

sorry and *psychological

In NICU babies are also wired up to sensitive machines that go off if the baby stops breathing, right?

Hi
I could have written your post, mine is now 3 weeks. The one thing that has helped settle her in her basket is swaddling her. She sleeps for 3 hours to start with when swaddled but after this I end up moving her to our bed as she won't settle again.
Mine is still very sicky which I think is made worse by my fast let down, she guzzles so quickly then brings most of it up.
I think you only need to worry about reflux if she turns into a real screamer and you can't console her. My first dd had it really badly, this one is just as sick but doesn't seem to have the pain (yet anyway - fingers crossed!).

Giraffe, I was making the point that there are some babies for whom lying prone is a good idea - even taking into account the possible association with SIDS.

Your attitude is very black and white to this. I wonder whether you have ever transported your children in a car? Or let them ride a bike? Whether they'll ever be allowed to play outside freely with their friends? Lots of our decisions carry greater mortality risks for our kid's, but we choose to go with them anyway because QUALITY of life matters too.

Princess said that as long as you are not a smoker, there isn't a problem with putting a baby to sleep on their tummy from 4 weeks old.

That's just not true.

And the baby in the OP hasn't even been diagnosed with reflux.

Giraffe From the studies I have read it would be very difficult to say that one particular baby with any specific set of circumstances would or would not have an increased risk of SIDS. There are so many variables, and the baby's who aren't supine in cots are usually all lumped together in the statistics.

It would be up to her parent's to decide whether their lo's quality of life is improved by lying prone, with or without a diagnosis, wouldn't it?

People are just trying to help the op with tips that have worked for them. I took for granted from the content of her post that she was already aware of the current government guidelines.

No, putting a baby to sleep on their front increases their risk of SIDS regardless of other factors, the data is very clear on that.

Im just going by the pediatricians advice.

He said that it is very misleading as 95% or maybe it was even as high as 97/98% (I just remember being shocked at how close to 100%) of SIDS was in a home with smokers so the chances of a baby dying from SIDS by lying on their front alone was well, work it out. If you put the other advice on the list with it, it makes it a near miracle!

After he told me it was ok I was still anxious and still asked my HV. She said the advice is like, parenting for Dummies if you like. She said you have a clean home, no smokers, a new moses basket matress, you are sensible, she will be fine.
They are just not allowed to go against guidelines but basically it is down to common sense and they obviously er on the side of caution as not everyone has common sense.

I remember watching a new mum shove loads of teddies and loads of frilly covers over her new baby girl in the cot in hospital. You couldn't see the child. Obviously she got a row! I wouldn't be advising her anything BUT the guidelines!

I think my 2 that slept on their tummies gained a lot more comfort from it. It helped them move quicker as they were working the correct muscles - think tummy time.

It is not just for reflux babies, it works for all unsettled babies. It also stops startle reflex so they sleep a lot longer on their fronts.
Even just do it during the day when you can watch her if you are nervous. You will see how much more settled she is, how much longer she sleeps.

I did have a sensor pad too though but i didn't have it for that. Id had bought it when I was PG with my first.