sleep - help please?

[Fuzzyfeltrabbit]

Hi Ladies,

looking for help/support/words of comfort etc.
MY LO is 9 months old, she is BF. she has never slept through the night. I am back at work full time now and its shattering to keep getting up. she really resists DH trying to settle her (lthough he does try) she wakes about every 1-2 hours
she still feeds (big 20 minutes BFs) on most of these wake ups.
now and then (about once every 2 weeks or so,) she will resist going into her cot at all - last night was like that. we have never managed for her to self soothe so are still putting her into the cot asleep, but on nights like last night, as soon as any part of her touches the mattress she will wake up and cry. I tried for more than 2 hours last night to lie her down and she was having none of it. eventually since we were all exhausted I slept on the floor on a mattress with her (she still woke every 2 hours)
we have tried, white noise, no noise, items of our clothing in the cot, paracetamol (for teething) and teething powders, putting her down asleep/drowsy/awake, shusshing/patting - that just seems to make her worse. we used to do swaddling but she is too mobile for that now,
she seems to sleep fine on one of us (always has done)
DH is a sahd and is having some success with putting her down (when asleep) on the sofa - but she will not go into the cot during the daytime..we thought this was at least a bit better that on him all the time.
she will sometimes nap in the car but as soon as the car engine stops - awake!
she is eating solid foods - but BLW so not massive amounts yet.
I discussed it with my HV who told me to let her cry and give her only water at night times - but (maybe Im too wimpy) I cannot let her CIO - its too upsetting for us all.
I have booked two weeks annual leave next month so that between us, me and dh might try PUPD - anyone tried this???
its so tiring !!

(oh and everyone I know has a baby that sleeps well (apart from the odd hiccup) and has done either since birth or 12 weeks or thereabouts - so I feel like a terrible clueless mum most of the time)

Can you cosleep? She's big enough that she should be able to latch on herself at night so that you don't need to wake up fully to feed her. I went back to work full time when DD was 14 weeks, and the only thing that kept me sane was cosleeping with her, plus it gave me an excuse to have early nights. There is a saying that an hour's sleep before midnight is worth two after. There is plenty of time for "grown up evenings" when she's a bit older.

I second co sleeping. My 6 mo dd is a terrible sleeper. I used to settle her in my arms around 7 watch tv while holding her then take her to bed with me around 9.30. These days i can settle her in the cot around 7 or 8. She'll wake every 40 mins or so till i go to bed but at least she settles back quickly and i get some alone time with dh. I then go to bed and take her in with me for the night at the first waking. She wakes much less when I'm there and i barely wake up when she feeds. She is a lovely snuggly sleeper and i quite enjoy it. I know it won't last forever. My 2.8 yo ds was a terrible sleeper but by age 1 he was fine.

I hated the thought of CIO, but when I hit rock bottom and I couldn't take any more; I'd have done anything.!!! It worked! She has consistently slept 12 hours through the night since. My reasoning was; she doesn't need feeding, it's just a horrendous routine we've gotten into! Sometimes you have to get tough. I know I'm a happier, more energetic better mum in the day, since sorting out the nights!

I third the cosleeping (although note that you hadn't mentioned it in your op so maybe it's not an option?)...

DS bf until he was 2, and we coslept until then too. DD is currently feeding to sleep, she's 18 mos and cosleeps.

There is NO way I'd manage to work if we didn't cosleep.

DS has always been a terrible sleeeper, up until he was well over 2, just as you describe... Awake every 45mins - an hour... All night. DD sleeps much, much better, in fact neither of us is fully awake when she feeds at night so could almost say she "sleeps through" (compared to DS, she sort of does...)

Like you, couldn't leave them to cry, PUPD just seems... Well, not for us.
The "water only at night" kind of assumes that the problem is breadtfeeding, but DS still wakes up, despite not having bfd for nearly 2 years - DD feeds, but neither of us is awake so it's not a problem.

Also, I went back to work full-time when she was 10 months, and she reverse cycled, only accepted water off her dad/daycare, so I feel like letting her feed overnight is the least I can do.

So, I'd say cosleeping would answer most of your problems, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea.

Personally, I'd be on my knees if we didn't.

I second CIO. Dd2 was just like you describe and at 9 months I just couldn't do it any more. The CIO didn't make her sleep all night but it helped immensely.
I feel for you, op. Sleep deprivation is awful. Don't worry, you haven't done anything wrong. Some children just take longer than others.
Good luck whatever you decide.

We did cc. It was awful. But it worked. I was at my wits end after 7 months of an hours sleep at a time. I was so tired I was constantly shaking and a permanent splitting headache.
We're still getting there but out of five nights I've had 3 sleep throughs.
Putting dd in the cot during the day and playing with her in there really helped.

My ds is 8 months and still does not sleep trough the night!

I used the pick up, put down, cry down method and think it was great. I did modify it a little and would only leave him for 5 mins as opposed to the recommended 10. It worked for us and he will now go to sleep on his own and if he is still awake after a feed during the night he goes happily into his cot and off to sleep.

Co sleeping wasn't for me, I couldn't get to sleep properly and was just as tired as when he was waking every 2 hours.

I'd vote for co-sleeping too - I did it with all four of mine and I think it ultimately made everyone's life happier :) Well, maybe not the hubby's LOL. My twins were really tough sleepers too - preemies with reflux. Plus I had a 3 year old at the same time who was still co-sleeping :0 Probably needless to say, but I got pretty much no sleep at all. To make a long story short, I spent a wad o cash trying to find something to remedy the problem. I wanted to find something that would help the kids settle faster, but also something to help them sleep for longer stretches without waking. I finally stumbled upon this one baby2sleep.net and it actually made a big difference! I still use it now with the twins (now 2 years old) and their big brother (now 5). The link I included has a really cute video that shows the product being used with a newborn...made we consider going for baby number 5 LOL. Good luck to you all!

We just did a sort of hybrid of PUPD / CIO. Largely because 11mo DD isn't particularly comforted by being picked up, so holding her tends to be a modified version of CIO, if you see what I mean. Some resources say that it is enormously different for a baby to cry when held than be left to cry... who knows if that's true, DD seems to be pretty pissed off either way, but I could never leave her crying in a room alone, even for timed intervals. My instinct is to be there with her.

Anyway. She was waking in the night to be fed (BF until 6mo, bottle from then), at 10mo she had never slept through (though she always self settled for naps fine). She is 11mo now and we've just about cracked it. It has taken a few months because I wanted to be gentle (and we had a big move across the world, which made it difficult).

So, briefly - first, I read the first bit of Dr Ferber's Solve Your Child's SLeep Problems on the advice of my GP. Ferber gets a bad rap because he is a bit of a cold fish - would leave a child to cry until they vomit . Not my scene BUT the chapters on the science of sleep were enormously helpful. I got a good grasp of sleep cycles and crucially sleep associations and felt entirely less like I was losing my mind. It gave me the confidence to go my own route with DD. I would recommend the first few chapters (get it from the library) wholeheartedly.

I then spent a good month reducing her milk right down, from 6-10 oz overnight spread between three wakings to a bare ounce (same number of wakings, if not more). Then started offering water before milk (but gave her milk as a last resort, though often sucking on the water bottle would soothe her). Then (from a few days ago) just offering water, committed to no milk at all - this meant a few bouts of crying, at bedtime and in the night, I always went straight to her and talked to her, soothed her, picked her up, resettled her. And now, settling her with no help from the bottle. Again, some bouts of crying. But last night she woke briefly at 11pm and settled virtually by herself (DH went into the room and she turned over and went back to sleep) and then slept til 7.30am. This is a fucking miracle in this house, I can tell you.

Other thoughts:
If you're not up for cosleeping, I would crack the cot in the daytime, using gradual retreat method, she simply has to get used to being in there. We did this with DD at about 3mo and she was much easier to settle in the day, and once she was ok in the cot in the day the nights followed (though sadly not the sleep!).
Second, consider that if you are BF and DH is SAHP she might be reverse cycling kellymom.com/bf/normal/reverse-cycling/
Last, look at this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/a1394888-What-worked-for-us-Hope-this-helps which another poster reposted for me a few days back and helped me to take a confident approach. It is basically gradual retreat and lots of other insight in other posters' comments.

Sorry for the long post! good luck.

I would suggest reading no cry sleep solution before making a decision on co sleeping or crying it out, this book has lots of helpful ideas which you pick and choose from.
fwiw ds slept badly at 9m and shortly after with some.pro active solutions from book above he was napping well in the day and sleeping so much better at night too!

I second the No Cry Sleep Solution. Gentle approach to change. It took a couple of weeks to make a noticeable difference (subtle changes) but it helped without being brutal!