Can a child have anger issues from birth? Born bad?

[misslavery]

My sister has a two half yr old girl who from the day she was born screamed and shouted, didn't want to be cuddled, is demanding and manipulative. I see them around once a week and the toddler is always the same, my mum and brother see it too and it's getting to the point were it's becoming stressful to bring my child (20 months) to my sisters house for fear that she will be hit, bitten and screamed at.
My sister doesn't seem to want discipline the toddler and panders to her every wimper. She has a five yr old sister who acts up a lot as she sees the younger one getting her way. My sis doesn't have a problem disciplining the 5 yr old which completely confuses her.
The toddler speaks with a really croaky voice as she's always screaming. She never makes eye contact. She always look bedraggled, pale sick and tired.
She can squeal like a banshee all day long if she doesnt get her way. However she's a smart little lady, quite Tom boyish, fearless and what most would call a 'character'.
This isn't the terrible twos going on, she has always been like this and my sister is a very intelligent school teacher who seems to know a lot about child behaviour but just won't open he eyes to her own children.
My relationship with my sister has its ups and downs and I've come to realise that it's best I say nothing with regards to how she parents or lives her life but I do worry about this child. Could this child have a hormonal imbalance or something that a child physiatrist could work on or is she just too young? During the pregnancy my sister had major issues with her husband and I know it was a difficult time for them. Has the child picked up on this in utero?
Before I left her house (in a rush) I suggested she give the child some rescue remedy, that's as much as I could say without having the door slammed in my face. I'd really like some advice on this as I am going to have a conversation about it if I think it will help the child and if my sister can't take it then I'll totally back off and leave her too it.
Thanks for reading x

You're welcome. I also remembered my neighbour being diagnosed with ADHD as a child (he was really really hard to take) - his Mum took him to a dietician who took him off dairy, gluten and banned a lot of other things - this was 20 odd years ago so we were all amazed (milk isn't good for everyone?) but his behaviour dramatically improved. Hope you can help your DNs and DSis without falling out.

Cheers everyone, I think I have found a point a which to start. Nite nite

Good luck!

Forgot to say I he didn't actually have ADHD, it was all food related.

Sounds fairly like DS1 at that age. He has Aspergers & ASD.

No, children are not born bad but some are born with SN. A "clever teacher" should know that surely.

when you say she always looks worn out does she have dark circles under her eyes? This can result from a food intolerance. Her behaviour definitely sounds like it could be foods causing an issue. I hope they get to the bottom of it eventually and that the little girl feels better.

www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/diagnosis/screen-your-child

A HV or GP can ask a parent to look at the MCHAT test for ASD in toddlers. Autism Speaks (well known campaigning/research/support organisation) has an online version any parent or carer can do and if they have any concerns or red flags will give a useful starting point for a discussions with a GP or HV.

Screaming, lack of eye contact, hating to be cuddled, not being able to cope with different foods or food textures, hitting, biting....these could all be caused by lots of things. Including being on the autism spectrum.

No child is born bad but they can be born terribly distressed and remain distressed until they are helped and understood.

"No child is born bad but they can be born terribly distressed and remain distressed until they are helped and understood."

This.

I think it definitely sounds like either SN or a medical issue.

Slightly lax discipline of an otherwise well cared-for toddler wouldn't be causing this level of distress. We have had little horrors of 2yos in my family, but what you describe is more than a difficult toddler: it is a very unhappy little girl.

I think maybe if you rephrased bad from birth and used high need baby it would sound a lot better. High need babies tend to be

1. intense (really loud cries, dh said our dd was born angry, I think she was just starving hungry from birth to 3 months)
2. hyperactive / hypertonic (good muscle tone at birth)
3. draining (hard work to look after)
4. feeds frequently (as a baby)
5. demanding (they don't wimped for a bit then cry it's a full blood curdling scream from the off)
6. awakens frequently (needs no explanation )
7. unsatisfied (hard to know what they want)
8. unpredictable (what worked yesterday doesn't today)
9. super sensitive (notices everything / distracted / upset by things)
10. can't put the baby down
11. doesn't self soothe
12. hates to be separated from you

Does that sound like your niece as a baby?

I've known parents who were completely oblivious to their DC's SN - to the amazement of others, because the behaviour wasn't exactly easy to overlook.

You might do best by working out a plan to protect your own child first - that will cool the feelings you have toward DN.

I would think twice about telling DSis your concerns - she may not do anything but get furious with you.

Op you said she'd eat chocolate all day. My daughter's had spells when she's been not well and chocolate is all she could eat, because everything else was hurting her throat. Also if you had to refuse food, it would make you very hungry and grumpy, and frustrated that you couldn't get what you need. I'm with the others that think it's gastro-intestinal. Is she happy when she's eating chocolate?

Don't forget that if there is a medical/intolerance issue that is causing pain or discomfort your niece won't be able to tell an adult- because she won't know it's not normal. She will still be miserable though.

My ds was 8 years old when he was diagnosed with a chronic joint disorder which had caused him ongoing pain and made everyday tasks very difficult for him. When asked why on earth he hadn't told us, he replied "I thought it was the same for everybody and that it was just something you didn't make a fuss about".

A 2.5 yo might just be able to intimate to an adult if something new happens to her bodily status (this was the age when dd told us she had a "funny nose" when she was bunged up with a cold). But she won't be able to look at the people around her and think "they look much healthier than me, I bet their tummy/throat/legs don't hurt all the time".

If an 8yo can't do it, then a 2yo certainly can't.

I was going to suggest the possibility of coeliac disease, which would tie in with the gluten article the earlier poster sent. Ask for a test at the doctors, don't just stop the gluten, you need them to be eating gluten for the test to be accurate.

These are really interesting comments.

OP I have a similar situation with my nephew who constantly hits my ds and is mean to him in a really evil way. V distressing to me cause i love my sister, but ds comes first.

Nephew is not SN - he's v bright and doing fine at school - he is just, in my guess sad because his father is an awful dad who then up and left. But he's always been a bit aloof and unsmiling even as a baby and it somehow doesn't surprise me that he has reacted to his sadness by being a bit of a bully where other children might not.

So these things can have a psychological dimension and the kind of personality the baby is born with can play into that.

Having said that your neice sounds different. The fact that she is so pale -also suggests a physical cause. Imposs to say based on a relatively short post of course.

I would say that when a child seems vulnerable parents get extra protective and are not always objective.

"Nephew is not SN - he's v bright and doing fine at school"

Can I just point out that that is absolutely no reason why a child with SN could not be v. bright (not saying your nephew has SN). Some children on the autistic spectrum are very bright indeed.

Sounds like a medical issue to me. Could be reflux, but I wonder if it could be allergy - however, my thinking is skewed that way because ds 1 has severe multiple food allergies.

Always looking pale and tired can be a symptom of allergy. Try googling "allergic shiners" for pictures of children who have dark circles under their eyes because of allergy. Also, "dennie-morgan lines" under the eyes can be an indicator.

My son was a difficult baby from day one, because he was reacting to traces of food in my breast milk. He would scream for hours. I kept a food diary and soon worked out that certain foods were making him poorly and giving him eczema, but nobody believed me until he had an anaphylactic reaction at 9 months old. Now, when his diet is controlled, he is a perfectly normal little boy, but if he eats a dodgy "May contain traces" sort of food he can be an absolute nightmare. Feeling poorly makes him very unhappy and cross, and his behavior can be dreadful as a result.

I think your difficult relationship with your sister is complicating the issue, but the main concern should be your niece, bless her. I hope you can find a way of helping very tactfully. She is still young enough for any damage to be repaired if she starts feeling well and if your sister starts to cope better.

No child is born evil. I'm sure you only wrote that because the whole situation is so distressing and it must be taking its toll on you too. Your poor sister must be at her wits end.

Oh, and not making eye contact is sometimes an indicator of being on the autistic spectrum. This would also fit with having some food intolerance s, with gluten being a common culprit for children with autism. As a teacher, your sister probably knows some of this.

My dc2 was awkward, grouchy, bad tempered, grizzly when he was younger. He would never compromise, he wouldn't take no for an answer, he wouldn't compromise, he cared not a job if he was humiliating himself causing a scene.

I know a lot of people thought I was a terrible parent,(including acquaintances that are social workers) that he needed stronger boundaries etc etc.... without understanding why, I knew that 'stronger boundaries' wouldn't help. That the tantruming and shrieking would have been worse, and the meltdowns longer if I'd come down strong with 'stronger boundaries'.

Recently discovered that he ticks a few boxes on the Oppositional Defiance Disorder list. And also ticks all but one of the boxes on the Pathalogical Demand Avoidance Syndrome list.

It might be worth googling those two profiles and seeing if they strike a chord.

My son has an official dx of autism, and it never fit quite right imo, because he is (when he's HAPPY) like a normal child. But he will not accommodate other people's wishes, and when a gang of bystanders is watching you, all eyes, looking at you expecting you to discipline your child and you know instinctively with absolute certainty that 'discipline' and boundaries will not be the solution that will dissipate their anger and anxiety then it is very difficult. In these circumstances to avoid the anger I have to try and calm my son down. If I started saying 'no, no, no' it would just make him so angry and provoke a meltdown that could last two days!!1 so I don't do that, even thought the net result is that everybody thinks I am a terrible parent!

So, what I'm saying is that I sympathise with your sister. She can't deal with her child in the conventional way just to appease bystanders' expectations when she probably knows herself what will make the situation WORSE

^maja00
No child is born bad, what a spiteful thing to say about a 2 year old.^

Actually this is wrong. Some children are born bad. The latest research suggests that narcissists/psychopaths are thought to be born, rather than made.

It is not a spiteful thing to say, shes just telling it as it is.

Check out James Fallons research on the criminal brain.

My niece, a much loved 5 years old is a nightmare. She is demanding, attention seeking, very bossy and will not be told. She is also fearless and outspoken. Relatives tend to dread her visits.
I'm not saying she is a narcissist/psychopath, shes too young to say but these traits do run in our family so it is possible. Time will tell.

anna........words fail me that you could actually be suggesting that a 2 year old is a psychopath - how ridiculous. What latest research are you talking about? A link please? Nurture is what makes people psychopathic even if they are born with certain tendencies. Personality disorders are not diagnosable in children anyway. All children are 'narcissists' to some extent - it's when an adult hasn't grown out of childish behaviour that it becomes a diagnosable condition. In any case aren't real psychopaths usually charming and hard to spot?

Who knows what is going on here - of course there could be some sort of SN. But to suppose that some children have anger issues from birth is not helpful in the least. The child in the OP is still only a baby and she sounds very frustrated and unhappy

^greenbananas
No child is born evil. I'm sure you only wrote that because the whole situation is so distressing and it must be taking its toll on you too. Your poor sister must be at her wits end.^

The latest research suggests that children can be 'born bad' psychopaths/narcissists are born rather than made. (not saying this child is bad, time will tell)

Low or no activity in the orbital cortex indicates little or no empathy as shown on brain scans.
James Fallon a well know neuroscientist has researched the brains of psychopaths for many years.

^This is the orbital cortex, the area that Fallon and other scientists believe is involved with ethical behavior, moral decision-making and impulse control.

"People with low activity [in the orbital cortex] are either free-wheeling types or sociopaths," he says.^

There is also a 'Warrior gene'

The MAO-A gene (monoamine oxidase A). This gene, which has been the target of considerable research, is also known as the "warrior gene".

Babies are born with a personality they are not blank sheets. Siblings can sometimes be very different from each other despite being brought up in a similar way.

No, people are not born as blank slates but their experiences and upbringing shape whether these genes (if they have them) have any impact.

How is saying that people are born bad supposed to help the OP?

Its not ridiculous its science. Nurture is often not what makes people psychopathic, its genes. Your assertion that its always nurture is incorrect, though a abusive childhood will cause terrible damage.
Look up
A Neuroscientist Uncovers A Dark Secret (James Fallon)

There is other research that backs this up.

www.medicaldaily.com/articles/9800/20120508/psychopath-treatment-brain-abnormality-murder-rape.htm

Blimey Anna, my x is a narcissist and I've looked into how much of that might be inherited, and while I do fear that some 'template' of his personality could be inherited, I really disagree that you can label a toddler 'bad' or a psychopath or a narcissist!

Far more likely that the child isn't developing at a normal pace due to a some distress not yet identified yet, or due to developmental delay, and so is behind with turn-taking, immature at dealing with anxiety, demands, anger etc...