Has parenting affected your mental health?

[NutsinMay]

There seems to be a lot of links about Mental Health affecting your ability to parent but nothing about parenting affecting your mental health(beyond post natal depression).

Yet although there have been times in my life when I've felt low, anxious, possibly more than that, I've never felt as anxious, stressed, neurotic, controlling, irritable, occasionally close to the edge as I have had since having children. I have no desire to have a relationship or go out (beyond doing stuff with the children as they are always much easier when out).

I do work part-time and that provides some relief but I wish weekends were something to look forward to like they used to be pre-children. Now they are the most tiring shifts of the week.

Having one was fine and didn't change me or my life that much (and I had a high needs baby) but having two for me is a whole another level.

I am tired very tired. I've not had an uninterupted night's sleep for about 5 years so I think that might be a major contributor but I find the fighting between siblings, the noise, the whining, the whinging- the demands of "mummy" shrieked in stereo are occasionally just too much to bear. I sobbed in front of them this morning because I just wanted them to leave each other alone. I sometimes fear picking up by daughter from school as I just don't the energy to cope with the afterschool grumpiness/meltdown/rudeness.

I know parenting isn't easy and I'm full of admiration for those who have more than two, do it alone or unsupported or have children with complex needs.

I do hear stories of women locking themselves in the bathroom to escape their kids and I know a lot of women got by on valium in the 70s and laudenum in the 1870s(or earlier) so I know it's not uncommon.

But I'm wondering why there isn't more written about this? Is the stress etc actually doing damage to my physical health? Is it normal? Does anyone else think they are going mad?

Thankfully, they are out with DP this afternoon as I've been on the go since 6.

Thanks Oddbod, your sympathy/empathy is much appreciated. I have been thinking about another poster's memory (was it even on this thread? Memory is useless) of the video of their Mum snapping at them even though they were just laughing and joking. If I didn't avoid photographic devices like the very devil, I fear that is what our home movies would show too. I know I shouldn't put my emotions onto my children's shoulders but IT IS SO HARD to explain calmly how their INCESSANT BICKERING AND WHINING is making me feel stabby without somehow making them feel responsible for my feeling bad. Because, well, they are responsible for it! Or for my feelings of frustration. The guilt, the guilt.

Myfurbyiseday Absolute solidarity with you on the demanding 2yo. I have one too. Your day with your DH's hours sounds hellish. Do you have any regular support or breaks?

On the mis-selling of parenthood - perhaps it's like the childbirth conspiracy - you don't want to say how awful it was for you because it might not be that bad for the person you're telling, you don't want to jinx it or predict the future.

Imagine a non-glossy parenting magazine that actually examined the real issues? Product testing antidepressants, reviews of cafes based on how much mess they let you leave and how noisy your children can be before you're asked to leave. I bet Zoe Williams would write for it.

issy I do have my parents nearby but they are worse than useless. I was at a very low point last week and actually said to my mum I was going to ring social services as cannot cope with the dcs anymore (I was half joking), she said nothing. I have told my DH so many times that things cannot go on as they are ie him out the house all day and me on my own without any family support. He sympathises but does nothing.

The 'problem' I suppose is that everyone sees that I am coping so are happy to let me carry on with things as they are. So my DH takes no steps to try and help and his life carries on as normal.

I am angry at myself. Angry that I had children with a man who has to work all hours, angry I had children when I have no family support and angry that all my friends have chosen to have a career and no children so we have very little in common now.

Saying that, in my positive moments I think that one day things will improve. My 2 yr old wont always be 2 and wont always be such a challenge!

Ah yes, the anger... so destructive, eating away at you. Are you able to express it? It's been a revelation to me that expressing emotions helps them pass. And expressing feelings assertively to my DP, instead of leaving it until I explode in a hail of bitter blame-flinging. I was shown how to say 'When you do ABC it makes me feel XYZ' instead of 'You didn't put the milk away, you left it for me to do, you make me feel like your slave or your mother you bastard'. Apologies if you know this stuff already, but nobody taught me.

My DP has not understood when I've cried out for help. I've always been a coper too. We're actually on the waiting list for a relationship counsellor because I'm so unhappy. You don't exactly interview prospective spouses about what kind of supportive husband/father they'll be, but god I wish I had.

Mothers - I guess we won't know what it's like until our children have children, but it's a complicated relationship. My DM is very judgemental so I choose not to talk to her about a lot of things. She was very unfulfilled when she was a SAHM and has put up with a lot from my DF so hasn't really been a great role model for expressing yourself and settling for not enough from your husband/partner.

Does your DH choose to work long hours or have to?

And yes, things will improve as our DC get older, but it's an awfully long time to be unhappy for. I keep thinking that when mine reach the next stage, things will be better. And then I realise things will just be different.

Ledkr 11 years of "watch me mummy"? I am doomed. DD2 is only 2.9. And she's my accident-prone one too, so it's a case of 'watch me, watch me, waaaahhhh!'. Can my nerves be frayed and shot at the same time?

issy ah yes relationship counselling, I am desperate for some quite frankly. The problem is we cant get a babysitter so we cant actually attend any counsellling, the irony! Would be interested to hear if it helps you. I did once attend counselling for PTSD after horrific birth with first dc but I spent the whole time sobbing and the shocked look on the face of the woman counsellor when I described my birth experience (think major tearing, stitching, blood loss etc) didn't really help!

Thanks for taking the time to comment on my ramblings, I really do appreciate it and it helps knowing its not me just feeing like this.

I've been thinking about my own childhood a lot; I was fortunate to have grown up in a very happy, stable environment.

My mother was a peado psychiatrist for close to 40 years and was/is the best, most loving and warm parent ever; but thinking back there's no way she gave me the level of feedback our children seem to demand (and we provide).

In fact, she often says that a child-centric family dynamic can be very detrimental as it creates its own type of pressure on the child and potentially breeds insecurity. But I digress...

My Australian friend once told me how her family used to gather at the dinner table and all the children would talk about their days at school, while the parents and the other siblings acted as talent-show judges.

They would point out when the person talking was being boring, so they could move on

She told me this laughing, seemingly baring no scars from the event and on reflection both her and all her siblings are well adjusted, successful and actually great company socially

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but this got me thinking (along with this thread) if we're not giving too much. If it's healthy or even beneficial for our children to raise them like this.

I suppose you could say I lean on "attachement" parenting (co-sleeping/rod for back etc) and DD is only 15 months old (DC2 in uterus), but it's got me wondering if I don't need to revise the way I define "good parenting"

The childcare is exactly the problem we have. I have dithered for months over the cost, time, convenience (well, years really) but it's come down to the fact that we can't afford not to, and if he can take time off to go cycling, he can take time off the one morning DD2 is in nursery to salvage his relationship. And I've confided in one lovely friend who may be able to babysit in the evenings. We're going to get the first appt and see where we go from there. I know they do telephone and online counselling but would rather be face to face.

Re: confiding - oddly, the more I talk about how I'm feeling, the more people i discover are going through similar shit. A couple pf friendships have deepened lately through sharing our 'stuff'. Could be my age and a cliched mid-life crisis, or just that you can only pretend thing are ok for so many years before it all comes and bites you on the arse.

Your counsellor sounded utterly wrong for you! Similar to Curry's experience upthread with a counsellor who didn't have kids and couldn't understand. I once had infertility counselling from a woman who said all the wrong things about one day being older and able to say 'sadly, no, I couldn't have children'. I think I actually wailed and used every pathetically undersized tissue in the box. The irony of once needing infertility counselling though...

Gosh, some seriously weird syntax on that post.

Apologies, English is not my first language and, as I might've mentioned before, my daughter DOESN'T SLEEP. EVER.

KingRollo The counsellor flashed her foof?! I have never used this face on MN but . I do worry we might not get one that suits both of us, but are we talking Sharon Stone-style displays?

YYY to knowing how useless your man can be. It's all charming and eccentric when you first get together and then fucking soul-destroying years later post-DCs. The anger is all-consuming. Have you left him to natural consequences? Like, your DD won't have any food if he doesn't make it. I have been doing this with DP lately - not trying to do everything for him but leave him to be responsible for himself. It's created a distance between us, I can't deny that, but occasionally he has surprised me and remembered stuff I thought he would forget. But he did go through about 2 weeks of thinking he was losing his mind because I wasn't reminding him about everything.

Poppyamex Interesting point about childcentric families. Like Curry's point upthread about the washing up moment, I'm aiming for DC who appreciate others' efforts and aren't brought up to think the world revolves around them. But small children are a work in progress, and I am realising I am not cut out for this level of servitude. I begin to think those women who put their husband before their children have it right, but that might depend on preferring your husband to your children and that's where I stumble...

I was feeling great until two nights ago when dd2 resumed her previous bad sleeping.
Two and a half years of no sleep then finally solace.
I'm so depressed at the thought of going back to it.
I was coping a lot better with work too.
Hope it's just her cough.

Wow, after a horrific HOUR (that's all it took tonight) this thread is very reassuring. I never doubt I'm alone..surely I can't be the only one struggling with this insane job that is motherhood...but you do have to sometimes really have to scrape behind the veneers to realise most people are dealing with the same s### in different houses.. And if I'm honest, I never share some of the terrible things I've said to my dd in absolute anger anywhere except here- which I did earlier and feel much better & ready to face another day of basically being treated like a skivy motherhood tomorrow.

I have grown into enjoying motherhood and I do accept the role now, but I didn't find it easy and it's not my preferred state iyswim..my working days are infinitely more enjoyable than my mothering days most of the time, I find mothering stifling and boring half the time...
What's interesting about this thread though is that the focus has gone from the dc to the dps. Te penny dropped for me about 3 yrs ago that mums & dads are just different. When I accepted my dh wasn't me & we weren't equal parents, that I would always be the primary carer...that's when my marriage improved post children. I gave up on the resentment, the expectation... He's not a slacker, he'll do his bit..but it's never as much as I'd like & parenting for a mother is 24/7 IMO ..dads can dip in and out. Ramble over!

Oh Rollo I'm so sorry (about you coping for everyone, not about the foof).

Everyone keeps telling me the early years are so hard and it gets easier. So I don't want to give up on me and DP without trying, but at the same time I don't know if the extra strain has just shown the cracks more quickly, and that they are still cracks, perhaps unmendable ones. Ironically, DP is better domestically now than he has ever been, but I don't know if it makes up for all the years he was slack.

I find it both interesting and depressing that the focus has shifted to people's anger at their partners (not that the anger is unjustified: I'd be serving time in Holloway if DH had done some of the things described on this thread.

Awfulmother, it's really not true that men and women are different. Men are quite capable of doing the day to day thankless grind, but they can opt out because they know the women in their lives will pick up the slack. Women mostly don't have that luxury, because the world tells us it's our job, and social structures reinforce it. Things like maternity leave don't help: if one person's at home more naturally falls to them, and then it takes an altruistic man, or a woman who's prepared to walk out, to rebalance things when the woman goes back to work. Because frankly, if you could get away with it, why wouldn't you want to avoid your share of the shit?

Still reading this amazing thread daily-thanks everyone for making it what it is.

Agree kingrollo but mums and dads are different ... He has skills I don't have (in remaining calmer when I lose it with the kids!) and I have skills he doesn't have..children benefit from the differences but not the wrangling between the adults in their lives if they're unhappy with their roles. My approach was to negotiate the roles we have (subtly over years, not in an evening!) and then just get on with it. Think of it as work..some colleagues will be better than you, others worse, some you work well with, others you don't..that's all marriage and parenting come down to..except quite often you don't know what type of parenting colleague you have ended up with til it's too late!!!

I love your attitude Awfulmother. Lots and lots to learn from it.

"Anyway, sorry for the long post, but this got me thinking (along with this thread) if we're not giving too much. If it's healthy or even beneficial for our children to raise them like this.

I suppose you could say I lean on "attachement" parenting (co-sleeping/rod for back etc) and DD is only 15 months old (DC2 in uterus), but it's got me wondering if I don't need to revise the way I define "good parenting" "

Yes I did all the attachment parenting things. It ws- the co-sleeping, the extended breastfeesing, the baby-wearing. It wasn't planned, I hadn't heard of the word attachment parenting before I became a parent and read a description that fitted what I was doing.

From day one I was child-centric to an almost obsessive degree(I have an obsessive perfectionsist nature). This is very hard to undo as I've been parenting this way for over 5 years. I think I have to accept I've destroyed my relationship in putting my children at the centre with DH and I as the spectators on the sidelines.

I know a family that parents very differently. The children stay up late doing their own thing while the parents chat to their friends and drink wine. The children are passed around a number of relatives so the childcare is constantly being shared. The children don't have set bed times or nap times, they fall asleep in the car or on the sofa and are carried upstairs. The parents love their children but don't seem to find parenting stressful. They do their own thing and the children fit in with them (often accompanying them to work). I could never parent in this way( I prefer to focus on DC in the day and then pack them off to bed at night) but I think it works for a lot of people. The parents' marriage has still broken down though.

Gosh so much to read and absorb, this is a very important thread.

I took my children in the car to the local garage to feed them breakfast as I had ran out of milk and bread. They ate yoghurt, cereal bars and mini cheddars!

School run

Play group for two hours - its a big busy one where I still need to follow my 16 month old around pretty much as she has only just started walking too.

Charity Shop

Lunch

Pepper pig book on repeat

Afternoon nap BOTH! eventually

School run

Tea. (homework) Bath Bed.

DH arrives home.......

My university work - non existent I have had an extension granted.

Wiped out, but now sitting up like an OWL for some peace and quiet.

I look forward to doing extra runs in car to after school stuff.

I love angry birds as it keeps my DS quiet for a bit - there I've said it!

Nuts and others...

I think we are a little too child centred, as others have said I can't remember my mum doing much playing etc with me, I can remember her teaching me to knit, bake. She was mostly busy working and doing housework.

I like to think I do stuff with my DC but sometimes I have to get on. I tell my DS often, sorry can you come back mummy is having a coffee break - like if I've just ran around doing xyz. Then when i feel refreshed I will call him over and go back to him.

But I often feel guilty doing this as if I'm pushing him away, but for me to remain sane in the absence of another adult I NEED to. I tell him if he is making a pest of himself as I consider this bad manners and wouldn't want him behaving like this toward others.

and nuts you can always make small changes, recently I've decided to introduce choices e.g.. meals, clothes - but options are what I'm happy with, to open ended!

I agree about small changes feeling
I cool from scratch but recently on work nights I've been buying frozen stuff to go in the oven quickly.
I'm also learning to accept some mess and muddles.
For example we have a lovely outdoor pool nearby so i leave the bag packed ready to go rather than put it all away each time. Yes it means Ive got an ugly bag on the kitchen table but it also means we can go to the pool at a moments notice.
Trying to tell myself ill have a tidy house again one day.
In other news dd is still sleeping having not woken up in the night. Woop woop! I'm now worrying she's ill but don't want to risk waking her.

MacMac123, thank you for recommending What Mothers Do. I had heard of it but misunderstood what it was - thought it was a sort of "Wifework" book about unacknowledged general household labour - actually it is very different and all about the all-consuming emotional drain of caring for a little baby - very interesting - though occasionally veering a little too far towards the attachment-at-all-costs philosophy that I am becoming increasingly suspicious of. At least, the author seems to feel that way but fortunately does not often directly express it. And I suppose it is mostly about little babies and even I think that it is right to be very very available to little babies. Killing, but right.

I bloody love you all.

KingRollo, the fucking baby food. AAARGH. It is like they did not learn arithmetic or something. Baby eats 2 x meals per day (assuming breakfast is porridge or something). 7 days in week = Baby eats 14 x meals per week. So if 14 meals a week are coming out of the freezer, HOW ARE THEY GETTING IN THERE? [Rolls around clutching head in mental anguish]

Ledkr, fantastic that dd slept through. I offer you my heartfelt, almost slightly tearful, congratulations.

On the attachmenty stuff. I think you can give so much you damage other things: yourself, your relationship. Irreparably. Only you can draw the line as to where this is and I don't think a sleepless hormonal person is necessarily equipped to know where that line is. Perfectionism is such an enemy. We are so well trained to think that you can never work too hard. BUT YOU CAN. I have no solutions.

I think some people need more sleep than others and there are mothers on here who are surviving for over 2 years on no more than 3 hours consecutive sleep and think that they are managing, and I HATE IT when they are judgey about someone else's desperation and controlled crying. HATE IT. I honestly believe that controlled crying done properly on a big baby or small child is fine. Leaving that aside, even if was not ideal, WILL NOBODY THINK OF THE MOTHERS?!?!?

I am going to post this and then do an evil double post because the next bit is a slightly theoretical, long rant.

Have a good day everyone xxx