How do i tell ds?...

[alexsmum]

...that one of his 'best' pals isn't going to invite him to his birthday party?
Ds has a little group of closeish friends at school and us parents are all friendly too. One of the boys mum's phoned me this evening.she is planning her ds's party and he is adamant that my ds isn't to be invited.and they have decided to let him make his own decision. He reckons my ds plays too roughly.
All the other little boys are being invited.
He attended my ds's party last month.
I am not kidding myself but my ds plays in exactly the same way that they all play-they all leg it about with light sabres etc. he's not a fighty child and is always popular at school.
The mum said she felt bad etc and thought she should tell me.
I am SO annoyed. When it was ds's b/day we said 'right you HAVE to invite xyand z' and any body else was a bonus.her son was x!
How on earth am i going to tell him? when all the others are talking about it he'll be really upset.
They're 5/6.

Excuse me, but learning to take their own decisions is also very much about facing the consequences caused by their choices. I don't see such opportunity in this case. Sorry.

But I agree with you that if the children were not particularly friendly for some time, there is no obligation to invite them but... if they saw the things that way... why did they accepted to attend alexmum's ds's party? Obviously there's no way you can know the answer to that question but I'm still mesmerised at the cheek of it.

I think it's cheeky too. And alexsmum babysits for this child! Would deffo do something ultra-cool that day. Oh, Alexsmum if I won the lotto I'd pay for you and a "select" few to go to Eurodisney!

I'm not sure I understand Chandra - you refer to learning to take their own decisions - but everyone seems to be advocating the opposite - that the parents should decide on the child's behalf.

Re accepting an invite when you're no longer that good friends - that's just what kids do isn't it? You can't expect them to turn an invite down.

And re the babysitting - that's between the adults - adults helping each otehr out. I don;t think it creates any obligations on the children. imho the relationship between parents and between children are seperate, and I think blurring them is where people stand to get upset.

anyway...must go to bed.

chipmonkey yes it's not very nice but that kind of talk is a fact of life imo. at that age children make and break friendships all the time, best friend this week could be arch enemy next week and vice versa. Children fall out all the time because that's how they learn social skills and how to deal with conflict. And I agree with the poster who said that it's the children's friends not the parent's. We can't make friends for our kids, they have to do that for themselves.

Re how to tell him, unless this child actually tells him he's not been invited, I wouldn't tell him he hadn't been invited, what he doesn't know can't hurt him. If the child makes a point of telling him he hasn't been invited, then I would say to him that "sometimes other children don't say very nice things, we can go to x at the weekend instead, you'll have a much nicer time there".

Have you told him? How'd he take it? What have you got planned. I too would be very cross with the mum.

no i haven't told him. i found out from one of the other mum's when it's going to be and it' a weekend.so i'm not mentioning it to him unless he mentions it to me and then i'll say ' you wouldn't have been able to go anyway 'cos we are going to x'
the mum wasn't at the party yesterday-she'd got someone else to drop him off.

Children of 5 should NOT be allowed to make their own decisions about who comes to their party. They are 5!!

At 5 they are not fully able to empathise. They cannot appreciate the hurt they cause if they leave one child out. They have to be taught this by the example set by their parents.

They have to be told to imagine what it would feel like to be the only one not going. They have to have it explained why they shouldn't leave one person out.

How can you expect your children to grow up as caring people if you don't demonstrate how to care?

omg
a mate f mine had htis

the kid she didnt want to invite stalks her dd

alexsmum- is your ds the only boy in the class not to be invited? If that's the case I think it's out of order, different if the friend has to choose a handful. Though one girl in dds class does regularly get left out of invitations as the parents are very odd and never reply so other parents have kind of given up on them for the girl though.

My ds has been planning his party for months (and it's along way away yet) and he has said regularly that he doesn't want to invite particular boys. They are not close friends of his but if we do have a largish party I would definitely not leave them out....

Yes, this was me. My d said that the boy'wouldn't let her play with any of her other friends' if he came to the party because he monopolises her at school and she doesn't like it. I tried to reason with her, recognising that it would be awkward but she got upset. I talked to the Mum about it who was incredibly hurt and took the view that I should overrule my child. In the end I allowed my d to stick to her guns. I am the one who has suffered as the other Mum lectured me on how unkind I had been to her child and how I should have overruled my own. I spent a lot of time trying to work out what was 'correct' but ultimately decided that respecting my child's right to chose her friends was the most appropriate parenting (and this should overrule the fact that I might lose a friend myself consequently - and have done so).
We invited the family around to play shortly afterwards but unfortunately this hasn't been enough to build bridges as I think I was expected to say I was wrong which I was not prepared to do (although I did explain that I was very sorry to know that I had caused such hurt and wished it had not been the case etc). I am SO glad this is all over (although not to have lost the friend of course). Would I do the same another time? Yes, I think I would. My daughter is 6 and has a right to chose her friends. This identified a problem with this friendship that we needed to talk to the teacher about. Imagine how she would have felt if the boy had been invited and had stiffled her (as he sometimes does at school)? When children are pre-school it is much easy to 'socially engineer' their friendships to suit yourself, but I feel strongly that this shouldn't go on for ever and you should really listen to your child's reasons for their decisions (we obviously had lots of discussion about this within the family and about what was the right course of action, how it would hurt feelings etc)

great posting bears mum

It's a tricky and difficult situation, but if it was me I would also be focussing on the fact that they boy isn't inviting your son because your son apparently "plays too roughly". I know you said they all play the same way, but is something going on when you're not around to observe? It might be worth watching out for this, because if they all "play the same way" then why does the boy see your ds's behaviour as not simply normal but a reason not to see your son? I actually think the mother concerned did the right thing - she respected her child's wishes, tried to change his mind and had the balls to tell you about it openly, therefore giving the opportunity to address the issue if need be. I'm sorry, I know it must be really hard and if I was you I would be upset, but I'm also trying to think of it from her point of view too. I wouldn't force my child to spend time with anyone they felt uncomfortable about being with, for whatever reason, and even if the reason only lasts for a week or so before everyone is friends again.

and btw, i think listening to your child when they say they don't want to play with someone who is too rough IS being caring. it's slightly different situation to a child simply saying they don't want x to come to their party without giving a reason; in this case the reason is about feeling physically threatened. I know boys do rough play, but doesn't mean they all like it. the mother and son probably came to alexmum's party because at that point in time the issue hadn't been raised. things can change quickly in relationships, especially between children!

Although I can understand the view and concerns of the other parent. I still do think it may have been easier to address the concerns with alexsmum first and still invite the child, they are only six afterall.

Good friends are hide to find, this may blow over and kids are all friends again.
If the child was so worried why go to Alex's party in the frst place. I think because most children don't like to be left out, especially if all their friends are going.
This is a real shame for both mums .

It is a shame for both mums. But I don't think the fact that the child went to Alex's party necessarily means he wasn't that bothered about Alex's behavouir; Alex's party from the sound of it was a few weeks ago, and it's perfectly reasonable to assume the issue only arose within that few week period after Alex's party.

I know they are only six, but the other child has a legitimate concern - he thinks Alex is too rough. Doesn't matter whether objectively Alex is too rough or not, it's all subjective, that's the child's view and he's entitled to it. (Like in the very adult case of discrimination and harassment - doesn't matter whether Woman A thinks a man's comments are "harmless banter", Woman B in law has a right to find them harmful.)The other mum was in a difficult situation and chose to put her child's feelings before that of Alex's. The bitch

One solution might be to call the mother up and ask whether, if she has a word with her son and asks him not to play too roughly (and this word could be done gently), the other boy would consider inviting Alex to his party afterall. That way you're taking into account both the other boy's and Alex's feelings.

Sorry, just re-read that last para and it seems confusing. I mean if Alex's mum has a word with Alex, would the other boy then consider inviting Alex.

got to be joking tai! no way am i phoning up and beggging for my son to be invited!!!
i understand what you are saying and i agree with you that she is doing what she thinks is best for her son.
However i don't understand why this is something that has come out of the blue and hasn't been raised on one of the many occasions we have all been together in the past couple of weeks.We see each other every day for gods sake , if there is a problem i want to know about it!
Anyway, have mellowed out about it now.it's on a weekend, so won't be so bad.
Obviously i'm going to have to keep a close eye on the situation.

No read all the posts but I would be annoyed too. For my ds 6th bday this year we only invited 5 other kids purely because we couldnt fit anymore in cars as took them to theatre.

I agree with alot of what the other mums suggested.. your ds sound like every other little boy i know, light sabres, powers etc..

How about planning a play date for that weekend for some of the other children that arent going that weekend.. bit petty i know but it might help your ds broaden his group of friends because if that is how he is being treated does he really need friends like that.. ?

Also if your ds was so rough in playing surely the school would have said something to him or you iykwim. Does your son and this boy have playdates together or is he not his best friend but friend of friend? Could it be that he sees Alex as too popular?

"They have to be told to imagine what it would feel like to be the only one not going. They have to have it explained why they shouldn't leave one person out." As I keep saying this is not incompatible with letting them make the choice. I think they will learn quicker if you do all this explaining and then let them choose anyway and suffer the consequences.

Alexsmum, I can understand you don't want to call her up, but I wasn't suggesting you BEG- heaven forbid! Only that if you are so friendly it might be worth letting her know how you feeel and trying to come to a solution in order to save your son the heartache of being left out. I didn't realise you saw this other mother every day. I think she handled this badly - it would have been better perhaps if she'd talked to you about it face to face, because then at least you could see that she felt bad about it and it would give you a better chance to discuss it and hopefully come to some solution, like you asking your son to play more gently with the other boy and her telling her son that Alex is coming to the party but she'll ensure he plays less roughly. However, as she said she feels bad I'd believe her; I expect she phoned because she was embarrassed.

Awen, as I said before the "rough play" is a matter of PERSPECTIVE - and should be subjective. Yes, they are small kids but they still have a right to set their own boundaries about what they find physically uncomfortable/too rough or not and to have those boundaries respected by other children and adults. What's the other mother supposed to say - so you feel he's too rough, tough, you're the same, put up with it, it's normal? In my view that wouldn't be showing your child much respect, nor teaching them how to resolve relationship issues, and could lead to resentment on the part of the child.

I had a similar situation a couple of weeks ago - though it resolved itself in the end and dd1 ended up being invited (if somewhat late).
I felt exactly the same as Alexsmum. I would definitely not babysit again for her as she has made a very conscious decision to exclude your son (who sounds like every other little boy). It should be HER responsibility to resolve any interactional difficulties that result, and if she asks about you babysitting again, I would say sthg like 'well, I feel very uncomfortable about doing it because (son) was very hurt and rejected by being the only boy not to get an invite to your son's party - they are just 5 year olds and rejection at this age is, in my opinion, very difficult to take, especially given every one was chatting about the party at school'. Why anyone would want to inflict that on a 5 year old is beyond me - at least give them a bit of time to learn the jungle rules of school. Yeah, they'll need to learn about rejection sometime but for god's sake, they've only lived on this earth for 5 small years! Imagine how she'd feel if it happened to her! Bet she wouldn't take it well.

ONly just looked at this thread again - taitai - get over yourself please. It is all a matter of perspective on her and I dont know much more than you about the situation and was merely offering another thought.