What do you think of this article - "permissive parenting"?

[emkaren]

I came across this article this article today and I was wondering what you wise Mumsnetters thought about this. I used to be a teacher in secondary school and I did often think that some of the teenagers were quite 'toxic' - much more rude and lacking respect than I remember my peers to have been! But I find the author's ideas about the roots of the problem quite questionable. My parenting style is mostly what you would call attachment parenting - co-sleeping, I breastfed dd1 until she self-weaned at 27 months, I never did controlled crying or anything like that - but I wouldn't say that this was 'permissive' parenting, and I seriously hope that the way I bring dd1 and dd2 up will have the opposite effect to what the author of the article thinks! Dd1 is now 31 months old, and while she has tantrums etc. she is altogether quite 'good' and cooperative. Have I just been lucky that she has turned out that way so far in spite of my 'wrong' parenting ways? By the way, I am emphatically NOT saying that only attachment parenting will give you a 'good' child - not at all, it's just the way that feels right to me, but I don't mean to criticize people who do controlled crying or whatever!!! Oh, and the other thing in the article that made me think was what he wrote about toilet training - dd1 isn't trained yet and I have been thinking that I'll just wait till she shows that she's ready - is that really such a laughable idea?
Anyway, I'd be interested to know what other people thought of the article!

I have the opposite experience, Enid -- would say that British kids are amazingly polite when I meet them abroad; Spanish & Italian kids are very loud & constantly sneak off for a smoke!

signpost to the probems oaky be postive as you reel him in form the skys.

Thanks for your coment Enid. I do come on here and say all the thinngs I want to say to the neighbour down the road who won't talk to me because my child is too weird (he's not disruptive at all either just odd tbh), or the "friends" who dropped me becuase it was suddenly too embarrasing, or the newspaper columnsts who make throwaway remarks about things they don't really undersntand. So yes I can be a bit "passionate" (read abrupt). I think the thing is in "real life" we hear these things so many times, but can't say anything so to be able to let it all out on here can be very theropeutic. Diet can be a big thing for these kids though as their biochemistry can be so up the creek so its difficult to take a "well my kid doesn't do that" type comment when your child is completely normal iyswim.

Airploane noises and speeches? My son doesn't understand about sitting down- can manage about 5 mins. So we sit down for the 5 mins, then when he's going to explode one of us leaves and the other stays with ds2- who can behave. He's autistic but that doesn;t mean I expect others to put up with him (which is why we don;t go out very often!). Restaurants aren't so bad as we have to take a packed lunch (gluten free) so I can normally drip feed him food to keep him still. When the food's gone then we go. If he plays up, once again one of us goes outside with him and we take it in turns to eat our meals.

Sorry if I was too abrupt. Friends?

Well, what age group are we talking if they are sneaking out for a smoke? You can't seriously expect a 3 year-old to sit still during long boring speeches ata wedding? A 7 year-old may be, but not a very small child. If you child sits still during 2 hour of speeches, I would suggest that the aeroplane-kids are the "normal" ones......

Definitely friends Jimjams

Fairymum - 2 HOURS of speeches!? Well thats a different matter - at our wedding we had about 30 mins of speeches and most children were well behaved - most parents tried to shush them and distract them so at least they TRIED to show them there are times when being noisy is not an option, even if the kids didn't go for it. Quite honestly you should try with all ages of children IMO, don't you think that it is worth children beginning to learn respect for others in certain situations?

Yes, I do think it's important to teach children social skills. However, I don't think it's strange that a small child would get impatient sitting at a table for as long as 30 minutes. Nor do I think that it is a reflection of good or bad parenting skills. One day my children are perfectly behaved in restaurants, another day they might be fidgety and start playing up a bit. On the good day, I don't look smugly over at parents struggling with a tantrum and think they are bad parents.

i've lived half my life here and half in Greece and i think, the kids are basically the same. I think the difference is that in Greece the adults around are much more tolerant as it's more child centred in reataurants and if a few start acting up, it's just the norm and you don't get strangers looking on horrified!
We were at a wedding not so long ago, very posh affair and dd sat through half an hour of speeches and then i felt it was not fair to MAKE her sit through it all so i went to our room, In the end the speeches lasted about two and a half hours!!! i expect good behaviour when we're out ( or at least hope), but i don't expect Too much of a two year old!

thanks i think kids in Greece have it alot easier actually, lots more freedom and lots less rules. Where i lived anyway and that was a itny village.

Not really in the home, more outside, they are allowed to go out and play around the village from very young and school seems alot less strict. I went to a language school and on my first day,(me and my sister), all the kids climbed out of the window and hid in the trees!! They were brought back in and it was seen as hilarious,
I can't think of any specifics now but they seem to just live more free!

I have to go as i'm visiting a school with dd at 1.30!
I'm a bit nervous as i always get toungue tied and forget to ask the right questions. Deep breathe
Nice talking to you

My dp's parents are Irish and they too were very suprized that i stuck to her 7.30 bedtime when they were visiting. (She goes all to pot if she has a late night and ends up waking at 1 o'clock or something) She told me stories of when her kids were young and up late but dp said he can't remember being allowed up ONCE and she was very strict. I guess that is what people have said on this thread. Rose tinted glasses about the good old days
Right really must go +

interesting Angeliz. Surprisingly (maybe) ime it was very similar in Japan (at least for young children).

The schools I taught in were interesting as well. One had a reputation for being very strict (although it was for low academic ability- it was an agricultural college) and the students were very well behaved. Another was the equivalent of a comprehensive and it was a disaster. No discipline- the head wouldn't allow any. We had to interest our students - hard when the one's who do want to learn can't hear a word you're saying.

Young children played outside a lot away from adults - I used to get 3 year olds clambering onto my balcony- they used to like to bring me things like dead snakes to try and freak me out. Very little direct discipline. I was stunned at the time.

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I managed to get one successful lesson in the wild school dinosaur- animal noises! Oh and word searches went down well. Otherwise forget it it was a joke. Boys combing their hair with hello kitty mirrors at the back of the class, putting pin ups up, girls reading magazines (I taught the word "to confiscate" the got told I wasn't allowed to do that), groups of desks pulled together to play cards. And above all this noise about 6 students at the front who wanted to learn! Only went there once a week. The rest of the time was spent at the agricultural school where the kids were a dream with a few trips to special schools (rather ironically- they used to ask me about the special school system in the UK and I couldn't tell them- could now!)

Younger children had much more freedom. This was out in the sticks though, maybe its different in cities.

Mediterranean parents don't do bedtimes or pocket money (IME!) That said, DD has a sort of bedtime (sometime between 7 and 8 pm) although she did see the new Year in, and was going to bed later over the hols (9ish) so we could lie in.

As for the restaurants thing, I think kids get taken out more in Italy and Spain and the whole family round the tables for hours still happens (with our friends and family, anyway). I certainly would expect a child to sit at the table nicely for half an hour! That's the time it takes us to have supper at home for heaven's sake. My mediterranean relatives think Brits misinterpret their attitude to kids. You are absolutely expected to sit and eat a decent meal before you leave the table, not to bother people who are eating, people at other tables and get under people's feet. That said, an adult will make an effort to talk to bored kids. Rellies have commented that british parents on holiday just let the kids run around, distract other kids from their food (sin of sins!!) and generally ignore their own offspring whilst they get stuck in. They have also remarked that there doesn't seem to be much differentiation berween the behaviour expected of a toddler and the behaviour expected from a 9 year old.

well, i'm sure yours could amuse herself for half an hour at mealtimes, she could bring a book to read

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