What do you think of this article - "permissive parenting"?

[emkaren]

I came across this article this article today and I was wondering what you wise Mumsnetters thought about this. I used to be a teacher in secondary school and I did often think that some of the teenagers were quite 'toxic' - much more rude and lacking respect than I remember my peers to have been! But I find the author's ideas about the roots of the problem quite questionable. My parenting style is mostly what you would call attachment parenting - co-sleeping, I breastfed dd1 until she self-weaned at 27 months, I never did controlled crying or anything like that - but I wouldn't say that this was 'permissive' parenting, and I seriously hope that the way I bring dd1 and dd2 up will have the opposite effect to what the author of the article thinks! Dd1 is now 31 months old, and while she has tantrums etc. she is altogether quite 'good' and cooperative. Have I just been lucky that she has turned out that way so far in spite of my 'wrong' parenting ways? By the way, I am emphatically NOT saying that only attachment parenting will give you a 'good' child - not at all, it's just the way that feels right to me, but I don't mean to criticize people who do controlled crying or whatever!!! Oh, and the other thing in the article that made me think was what he wrote about toilet training - dd1 isn't trained yet and I have been thinking that I'll just wait till she shows that she's ready - is that really such a laughable idea?
Anyway, I'd be interested to know what other people thought of the article!

Gomez...Shaw writes:

"Parents are lulled into believing that bad behaviour is the norm by the parenting gurus who preach child-centric theories ? ?never let your baby cry?, ?he?ll use the potty when he?s ready?, ?the child?s feelings should come first? (before yours, of course).

From that sleep- deprived decision in the small hours that it?s easier to let a toddler come into bed with you than not, to that evening when you?re too tired, lazy or even afraid to stand up to a rebellious teen, by not acting you are acting in a potentially harmful way"

co-sleeping and 'baby wearing' are both 'classed' as attachment parenting.

4 grown up children missed that bit. WOuld find it rather amusing if one of his gandkids had ADHD (not that I'd wish a developmental disorder on anyone- but if its a choice between him and some poor sod on the street I'd choice the smug idiot). At least he'd stop writing about ADHD in such an ill-informed way then.

Actaully my dad is very much a victorian dad Very strict - could have written the article (except the bit about ADHD). Has always been very proud of the fact that he could look after stroppy cousins with no discipline at home for a couple of days and turn brats into polite pleasant children - and he did I have to say- few ground rules etc. He understands ds1's problems in theory-can theorise quite well, and wouldn't say stupid things about parenting. But can he handle ds1 by himself? Not at all- really gets it wrong all the time. He's very good with (NT) ds2, but totally misjudges ds1. Think I may invite the author to babysit (although he would just hide and say that he didn't mean people like my son- although thanks to him my next trip to the supermarket is just a little trickier!)

pie - hate to have to add to this, but a friend of mine was recently told by a consultant that the only reason her son was autistic was because she was middle class!!!!!!!!!! Must be somthing in the genes.

splutter and this consultant is?????? berluddy hell. If a consultant told me that I would be sending compaints to the HA the next day.

I was told by a nursery manager that as my son wasn't talking I must be talking over him all the time. BUt you expect a bit more from a consultant.

Robert Shaw, M.D., a child and family psychiatrist practicing in Berkeley, California, is the director of the Family Institute of Berkeley. He specialized in child psychiatry at Mt. Sinai Hospital in New York City and taught at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, where he trained residents in community psychiatry as the chief of the Family and Children's Mental Health Services for the entire South Bronx. He then directed the Family and Children's Mental Health Services for the city of Berkeley. The father of four grown children, he lives with his wife, Judith, in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Yea, but it would be him, would it, Jimjams? It would be one of his chldren, who probably don't deserve to have their father telling them they are poor parents, and none of HIS children were ever allowed to behave like that....

Quite jimjams!

Rubbish typing - meant "Yes, but it WOULDN'T be him"

No I meant musica's consultant with the middle class comment!

Only skim read the article today - didn't realise the author was american. Does that make a difference? Not sure what things are like in the States.

WAs referring to "WOuld find it rather amusing if one of his gandkids had ADHD "

Yeah you're right Oaky. Although I think seeing a grandchild can be quite educational. DS1 has certainly opened dad's eyes a bit- and he knows that he doesn't really know how to handle him. When I've heard him talking about ds1 - he gets all the theory right as well- he just struggles with the practice.

Pie - surely co-sleeping is not defined as bringing your child into bed when you are knackered in the middle of the night as implied by the article (i.e. sleep deprived decision etc..). I know many parents whose children sleep with them that are most definately not following the principles of attachment parenting. I also know others who follow many of the other princinples of attachment parenting (slings, self-weaning) but do no co-sleep.

I may be wrong but having re-read the article I still can't find a reference to attachment parenting as a concept being wrong.

BTW this is a great distraction from the studying I should be doing.

Most of the TCS followers are American (it appears!) - founder is American.

seeing ds1 has opened our elderly neighbours eyes as well. She's told mum that when she sees children screaming in the supermarket now she tends to wonder wether they have a problem rather than assuming they have poor parents.

Wow! So my 3yr old doesn't have AS at all then. I'm just a bad parent. Hmmm, he didn't speak until after his 3rd birthday and is still in nappies so it must be all my fault. If I don't change my evil ways, according to Mr Shaw, ds1 may never learn to read....so how come ds1 learned to read over 18 months ago??

(Dare I make this seriously sexist comment and mention just because the author has kids doesn't mean he took an active part in raising them...?)

I saw this article today and I have cut it out to keep it - I don't agree with everything he says (I co-sleep and believe that you shouldn't force a child to potty train too early - also have no experience ADHD/AS) but I think he has a point - too many parents just look on as their child misbehaves, give in to whinging and moaning (I put my hand up here I have done this as well)or bullies other children - I am seroiously considering whether I am going to let my DD see one of her friends again as all that happens is that she gets bullied all the time - the mother is a friend so I don't want to fall out - will just refuse all invitations to play together for the next few weeks - rotten I know but I'm looking out for my daughter

AKA Bekki
I ap my baby, and I disagree with pretty much everything in this article.
Attachment parenting does not encourage my baby to cry for attention, the exact opposite is true! He doesn't need to cry to be held.
My eldest is and always will be a very forthright and stubborn personality. It has nothing to do with parenting technique as he was born that way and my youngest was born with a calm and laid back attitude. This article does not allow for personality and is extremely offensive to people with adhd.

Just another good reason to stop buying The Times.

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i wasn't going to reply to this but here goes! I think most parents aren't like like but SOME are! I had kids living opposite me before i moved just like this and egged on by their parents to tell me to f* off if i complained about the noise when my baby was sleeping!
I don't know about ANYTHING else but in my opinion from my experience Asthma is diagnosed very quickly! I took my dd aged one for a Doc's app for a cough, it was not worse at night, she was not wheezy and did not get out of breathe, the Doc said
" it could be.....don't worry..i might be wrong...it could be asthma, here is an inhaler"
I never used it but kept it incase!
A year later i took my dd for a sore ear and throat to a different G.P who looked in her ears and said "ear infection and probably throat but i won't bother looking", she then sat and read through her notes and said" give inhaler 3.......no, 4 times a day" Now considering she had just told me it was an ear infection i questuinoed this, when i said i was not happy giving her drugs she probably didn't need she said" i strongly advise you do this and i will check again in a few months"
I took her to A+E with DP the next day as we were close to tears at the stupidity of it all, the A+E Doc examined her and did the oxygen test and said there was absolutely no signs of Asthma!
I am not a control freak and would admit if something was up with dd but i will not give her drugs 4 times a day she obviously does not need. I have a sister with asthma and a friend of mine died aged 24 because of a terrible asthma attack so if dd needed help i'd be the first to jump!
Anyway, rant over!
BTW, that was all about my experience and asthma, not about ADHD!