Formal diagnosis that we have failed dd

[GooseyLoosey]

I feel awful.

For several years dd's schools have said that she has difficulties concentrating and following instructions. She has been described as "zoning-out" and "away with the fairies". In everyone's opinion it goes beyond normal day dreaming. She does not follow the plot in simple stories and gets words confused eg "hot" for "cold" and "cat" for "dog". She often forgets what she is supposed to be doing mid-task and cannot remember instructions with more than one part. She moved schools at Easter as we felt that the much smaller class sizes would help her. Her new teacher reported the same problems.

As a result she was referred to a peadiatrician and saw an Ed psych. The pead consultant was unable to come to a conclusion based on what he saw - he said there might be attention problems and he suggested that we and the school keep a diary of what happens and come back in a few months.

The Ed psych said that she performed above average in all the tests that she did. There was no problem with working memory (which is what the school thought) and attention seemed fine. The only problem was that she spent more time trying to manipulate the Ed psych in to giving her the answers than actually doing the tests.

The conclusion that the EP reached was that the only way to reconcile the opinion of the school and us with what she observed was to conclude that dd was afraid to enage with tasks, perhaps because she was afraid to fail.

I cannot believe that we have ended up here and that we have done this to dd. Does anyone have any suggestions how we can move on and make dd engage?

Any suggestions?

{{{{hugs}}} and bumping for you.

Don't feel awful. I can say this because I am in a similar place of guilt-tripping myself. Can't make suggestions for you, but I hope someone can.

You haven't failed her!
How old is she? There's always time to reengage and now you have a diagnosis you can work on making her less fearful. Praise her, concentrate on what she does well and build from there. Ask the EP for advice on engaging with her. It may be that you unwittingly put her off- do you have a boomy voice? Perhaps you're not physically demonstrative because of your upbringing, whatever- you definitely haven't failed her and can change things.
Good luck!

Or could it be that she performs differently on a one to one basis than in a group. Has EP observed her in class ? She may lack confidence in her own abilities in which case breaking things tasks down into small , more readily achievable steps, rewarding small successes may help.

And why blame yourself rather than the school- whatever you do, encourage her to engage with school and vice versa.

You have pretty much just described me as a child. My parents are the last ones to blame. It is just part of me.

I am fairly sure, and my opinion has been reinforced by numerous on line tests, that I have undiagnosed aspergers (or high functioning autism). I am still often 'away with the fairies' but 2 degrees, a professional, stable job, a mariage, a house and dc later. I am pretty sure life turned out ok for me. AND not once have I thought my parents failed me.

This sounds like she has difficulties processing information/instructions. It has nothing to do with intelligence or confidence levels. (and if it has to do with either then, so what, we ought to be child sensitive and use the simple strategies that exist to support their education.) It is not uncommon and I have seen children (I teach secondary) blossom once they get the right SEN development plan in place in a supportive school.

The child ought to given short instructions and only one at a time. After each instruction it is important to give the child time to process it that it is understood. Later in secondary it is important that the teachers check that she writes down any homework. Parents can help by keeping good communications with school and not wait for them to contact you about any concerns.

Thanks. I think we probably have put pressure on her as it can be so frustrating trying to explain things to her. We always have the feeling that she could do things if only she tried so lose patience when it looks like she has just drifted off and not bothered listening to what we were saying.

She is just coming up to 8. I don't think having a late Aug birthday has helped her. It has just set everyone's expectations low and she has lived down to them.

Might also be worth mentioning that her 9 year old brother is very bright and acknowledged by everyone as being so. For that reason, they are no longer at the same schools.

We have bought her a "memory book" to take into school so she can write down intructions she is given. At home, we make her repeat instructions back to us. Are there any other practical ideas any of you can think of?

She is funny, imaginative, musical, generous and loads of other good things so there is plenty to praise about her (and I thought we always had).

ishchel - that's what we thought too and what we expected the EP to come back and say, but she says there is no evidence of anything and she just cannot reconcile the child she saw with all of the reported experiences of her. Don't where to go from here.

I am only a class room teacher and not an SEN person so I am afraid that I don't have many suggestions. Hugs. Referrals can be done through different avenues and I am unsure which one you used first. Ask to speak to the SEN link person in your school and ask questions regarding another referral.

I would think that you are entitled to a second opinion since the last person you say pretty much said that he could not reach a decision based on evidence and could only give an opinion.

What about paying to have her tested privately? A child's parents I know had this done first as he was in private school at the time. IME going private has always resulted in the HCP taking more time to assess the child as well as treating the parents with respect and candour at the same time.

In the meantime, try playing board games with her. Learn the lyrics to songs and maybe take her to a climbing wall. Yes a climbing wall. Great for confidence building, physical strength and exercise as well as concentration and problem solving. My 7yo and nearly 4yo go and they love it.

Thanks - the EP was private, the consultant through a GP referral. The Gp suggested that she might be autistic. However the mother of her closest friend who sees her all of the time is also a paed consultant and says deffinitely not. Going back to see the consultant in a few months.

She likes board games, although finds more complex ones like Cluedo very difficult to follow. She loves things like Snakes and Ladders and is surprisingly good at memory games where you remember where cards are and such like.

Ha, this sounds like my ds - 'away with the fairies' is my informal diagnosis - we're currently looking into getting a EP assessment, but he also definitely has issues with not trying if he's nervous of failing (I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so doubtless partly my fault)

BUT what we did do with him recently was a session with an NLP specialist, who did some exercises with him on identifying 'little voices' that made him afraid, and drawing a cartoon of the voice - then he did a cartoon of a superhero that would defeat the voices. I had to do it alongside him too. The idea is that we then spot each other when we are worrying about something that doesn't need worrying about, and remind each other of the superhero.

Would something like that be helpful?

ds is 8 too, btw

We also do something called 'Big hat day'. Everyone puts some things we'd like to do into a hat, then you pick ne out and everyone has to do it. For us, that was aimed at helping us all do things spontaneously, not thinking about them/wondering what the right thing was etc. If the days doesn't work out, or things go wrong, that's (officially) part of the fun.

Me & dh try and put in slightly leftfield stuff although the kids often put in "spend all day in pjs watching the TV"

Not at all scientific an answer from me, but I would have described my DSD at 8 as away with the fairies too - she never seemed to listen, would have very one sided conversations (basically just saying what she wanted to say but not really listening to what was said to her) and doing ok, but not brilliantly at school. She is now 17 and totally different, she doing really well at school is a great conversationalist and is still quite unique and refreshing. Maturity has made a massive difference.

Funny - it might be! Love the idea of big hat day. Think we will try that as a family, sounds like great fun. How often do you do it?

Beamur - thanks, it's nice to hear positive outcomes. I worry about her so much. Even more now I think it's all my fault!

My DS has a 'specific language disorder' which apparently means that he struggles with processing instructions. He has had speech therapy at school which has improved things enormously.
He also hated to try things for fear of failure possibly as a result of not understanding what he was supposed to do.
Perhaps you could arrange for your DD to see a SLT? I never realised until he went to the SLT that they deal with understanding of language not just speaking difficulties.

You have not failed her.

However, EP can only make recommendations re additional needs at school; this person cannot formally make any diagnosis. GP as well cannot assume ASD at this stage; again this person was not qualified enough to make such a diagnosis.

Did you originally see a developmental paediatrician; there are several different types hence me asking that question. Re the paed cons you saw are you going to return to this person sooner than in a few months time?.

You may also want to post your initial post in the Special Needs; Children's forum part of this website as you may receive further opinion that way as well. I am not in anyway suggesting that ASD could be present here but ASD if there can be too easily missed in girls.

How did you get to see the SALT? Problem with dd is that as her attainment bobs about the average, no one seems to have any stake in helping her even though they acknowledge that she often does not take in a word that is said.

Not sure what kind of paed we saw my her friend's mother is a developmental pead and has seen her interacting a lot and is adamant that she meets none of the diagnostic criteria for ASD. I ignored the GP as he had not even seen dd when he came to his conclusion.

Will see a different one in a few months as paed 1 has retired.

I have posted in SN about dd before but now it appears she has no SN, just pushy parents so would feel a fraud doing so at the moment.

We went privately in the end, the paed gave us a name and we made the appointment. It was the same with us ,attainment was ok and behaviour wasn't dire so school just said he's not as bright as his brother (my older DS is very bright) so nothing was done.
He also has AS and is now at a SN school so gets to see the SALT as part of school. We are very lucky.

That's basically what we have been told Life and having been to an EP and a consultant, I don't know where to do. I am more than happy to accept that dd's problems are down to a failure to engage (although I am not wholly convinced), but no one has told me how to deal with that.

Stupid question but how is her hearing? Is she away with the fairies daydreaming or could it be a kind of petit mal?
Don't blame your parenting.

You have had another thread in the past I think where you described your frustration with your DD (I think doing sums?) and people told you that she wasn't as mathematical as you are and you should ease off? Or was that not you? Sorry to refer to another thread but it seems very relevant.