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Original poster

Two year old and a newborn - having a really hard time

33 replies

anchovies · 08/03/2006 19:09

Ds is 26 months and is really struggling since we had ds2 last week. I've only been home for 3 days and ds1 is being a nightmare. He has always been really well behaved and although he gets a lot of attention from everyone around him I wouldn't say he is spoilt, he is just a generally nice little boy. Since I had ds2 we have really been struggling with our own emotions, adjusting to loving 2 is harder than I thought it would be. But it has been made much more difficul by the fact that ds1's behaviour has been absolutely shocking. He goes to nursery 3 mornings a week and this morning there were 2 incidents where he bit other children, one of which was that bad he left a bruise and it warranted the accident book. He has never bitten anybody before today as far as I know. He is constantly trying to get attention and while we have been ignoring the bad stuff and praising the good, some of it is getting really out of hand (throwing stuff, hitting etc). At the moment he is probably getting more attention than normal as his dad is off work and I was pretty useless when I was very pregnant (not to mention we are both trying really hard with him). He normally comes to my mums with me while I work upstairs at her house so was thinking about going over there tomorrow for a bit but don't know whether that will make it worse. I am sorry this is so jumbled, it's now 5 days after my caeasarean and I am struggling with breastfeeding and I am so tired. Please can anyone help, this is so hard.

OP posts:

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Pagan · 08/03/2006 19:12

I can only say it will get better and send you big hugs { }. It's sooooo hard at first and you'll wonder how you will ever get through it but DS1 will eventually come round. My DD screamed the place down when Ds arrived but now she adores him

fastasleep · 08/03/2006 19:14

Hi, I have a 24 month old and a 5 month old.... it's still not quite there yet! But it gets better with time, he was awful absolutely awful at first, he would bite and kick everyone, he refused to eat, he would attack and try to smother his sister at the drop of a hat....

But he loves her now! Most of the time anyway, he still lashes out if I hug her more than him or forget to sing a song to both of them etc etc... but he's started eating again and has stopped being a vile little monster!

It is really tough! Keep your chin up!

VeniVidiVickiQV · 08/03/2006 19:17

I really feel for you. I had this too with my DD - she had just turned 2 when i had DS. It takes time and it will come together. You are tired, you have had major surgery and breastfeeding can be exhausting too.

Would suggest a "treat" box of toys for DS1 only for when you are feeding DS2.

Would also recommend trying to get him to "help" and generally be involved in what you are doing with DS2 (it can get really annoying i know but it makes them feel included). DD didnt lash out at other children at her nursery she actually lashed out at DS - scratching his eye and making it bleed - totally unprovoked - purely because i was strapping him in to his car seat. He was only 3 weeks old.

It WILL get better and he WILL get used to it. When people come to visit try and get them to spend time with new baby so you get a chance to spend time with him. I found personally that everyone focussed so much on making sure DD didnt miss out that in fact it ended up that i was the only one who she had to share in the end which made it harder IYKWIM.

Give yourself a break hun.

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fastasleep · 08/03/2006 19:21

Mine force fed DD a metal pastry cutter when she was a month old sob at memory!!, definately involve the elder child with the younger, mine burps her, helps me set out her nappies and fresh clothes, swishes water on her in the bath and help me feed her EBM :) it's made him much closer to her... he wipes her mouth when she dribbles too now :)

nemo1977 · 08/03/2006 19:22

havent much time to reply as its bedtime but sending hugs and will type properly later xxxxxxx

VeniVidiVickiQV · 08/03/2006 19:23

Oh God FA that reminds me of the blue playdough incident! DD fed it to DS when i walked out the room for 20 seconds

Judd · 08/03/2006 19:24

Anchovies - I've been there too! DD was 2.5yrs when DS was born and she didn't make life easy for me. Drinks were accidentally "spilled", she always needed me just when I sat down to feed DS (no matter how much preparation I had done to make sure she was occupied) and there was lots of shouting and crying. Looking back, although she seemed such a Big Girl compared to newborn DS, she was, in reality, still only a baby herself and probably utterly overwhelmed with the whole affair.

Ideas to help? Involve him in what you are doing. Even when you are feeding, talk to him constantly - provide a running commentary of what he is doing and how well he is doing it. Sit him next to you and read a book to him or put CBeebies on.

To help you get through? Remember that you are at the very beginning of a new journey. It is so very hard but IT WILL get easier. If you do go to your mum's tomorrow, would she be there? Could she give him some special Big Boy Time with grandma whilst you just sit with your baby?

getbakainyourjimjams · 08/03/2006 19:28

It calms down. DS1 was awful when ds2 was born. Then suddenly (after 4 months) he was OK again. hang in there- it gets better.

Lilliput · 08/03/2006 19:29

The best bit of advice my mum gave me when ds was born and dd had just turned two was that the toddler comes first (as far as poss). The new baby will come to no harm if it cries for a minute longer while you finish reading ds a book or if you are trying to give him some positive attention. A year down the line and my two adore each other and there is much less trouble from dd. I know you are sick of hearing it but it will get better. I was lulled into a false sense of security with dd and she only started behaving badly when she realised ds was a permanent fixture when he was about 6 weeks. Good luck!

Gem13 · 08/03/2006 19:36

I remember that feeling where you think that nobody understands because your case is so hideous.

But... it will pass - even if you want to shout at me that it won't, it will!

You sound shattered so concentrate on the feeding. Let DH look after DS1, no matter how much time you want to spend with him you have to look after yourself right now. When he is at nursery, feed DS2 and let DH look after DS2 when you have finished and get some sleep. Go to your mum's and let her look after DS1 (and DS2 if she is a star) and get some sleep there too.

Nursery will look after DS1, they should be used to sibling upsets.

It really is a case of looking after yourself and recovering from the c-section and having a new baby. DS1 won't be taking a backseat as he has other people to look after him. It's hard but you will be able to spend some more time with him again in a few weeks.

Sending you lots of sympathy. I have 18 months between my 2 and at one point (DH and I both had flu when DD was 7 weeks old) I prayed for social services to come and take them away so we could just die quietly.

emkana · 08/03/2006 19:41

My number one tip is to buy a ring sling, something like the one at www.slingeasy.co.uk

I had one when dd2 was born and it was great. Dd2 could be tucked inside and was content to be close, but because she was near enough hidden from view and I had both hands free dd1 sometimes seemed to forget dd2 was there. I had dd2 in it not only when out and about but also when sitting down to do things with dd1, because I could use both hands.

A lifesaver and highly, highly recommended!!!!

Ragtaggle · 08/03/2006 19:50

You have all my sympathy and empathy - I have just come out of the other side of this. My dd turned two in the week that my ds (Now 5 months) was born and it was hell. She shoved, bit and hit her brother and became unpleasant around other children. I had to start 'policing' her around others and I started to dread her becoming aggressive. She was until this point a gentle, sunny child so this was awful for me. Everything changed around the four month mark when I got some great advice from a nanny friend - I hope this works for you as well as it did for me. Firstly, let me say putting all this in place is really hard work when you are exhausted and I found some of it cringey but so effective that it literally turned things around...

Tell him what you are going to do every step of the day and what is coming next - ie: make it clear when you will be spending time with just him (ie: Your brother is going to nap now so we are going to have lunch together and then go to the park or whatever) and when you will need to do things with his brother etc.. So much of their reaction is about insecurity and this helps them feel more secure
Include him in all the things you do with his brother. I found this really tedious but once I let dd traipse up the stairs with me every time I changed ds's nappy and asked her to help me wipe him or whatever she started to lighten up about it. She even started to enjoy bringing the nappy sacks downstairs or whatever
Ignore and misinterpret all violence towards brother even if it looks really rough. Until this advice I had struggled with this and was constantly 'time outing' my dd for biting, hitting, pushing etc. What I did after this advice was start deliberately saying things like 'Aaah - are you kissing your brother, that's nice...lucky him to have such a lovely sister' (She would have been squaring up to bite him but this stopped her in her tracks and sometimes changed her behaviour as a result.) Until this advice she had been literally enjoying all the negative attention I was giving her - at least it was attention diverted from him. Once I started to literally ignore as well as misinterpret things changed dramatically
Constantly talk about the things that he and his brother will be able to do when they are bigger - fire up his imagination about how they can go to the park together, play football etc. My dd really latched on to this even once at the supermarket saying loudly 'When x is bigger he can hit me back' (Okay so I'm not proud of that one but you know what I mean)

Sorry for such a long post but this advice has literally turned an intolerable situation into a good one for me. These days I can literally leave them holding hands on the couch while I get their milk in the morning - Just a month ago I would never have been able to trust her. Good Luck - I really hope this helps

fastasleep · 08/03/2006 19:51

Oh yes, I have a sling! Heaven sent!

keziah · 08/03/2006 20:15

I've had small gaps between most of my children and its hard! I "make" a little squeaky voice for the baby and have him/her talk to the others. Its worked pretty well most times. It makes them laugh and makes the baby seem more personable. Maybe it sounds a bit naff - I don't know. I was never brave enough to do it out and about! I also agree with previous posts about involving your toddler in the looking after process. They love being helpful.
Hope you're ok - I had cs four months ago and its hard with the feeding and recovery etc. Must be difficult to find any patience. Good Luck

MaggieT · 08/03/2006 20:31

I looked up 'adoption agencies' in the Yellow Pages in the middle of one horrendous day (or was it night? ) when dd was 2 weeks old and ds was 23 months. I found it reassuring that I could phone them as a last resort! It gradually got better for me over about 5 months. I then looked back and realised how far I had come.
You will get through it. Take one day at a time.

Bugsy2 · 08/03/2006 20:42

Poor you, it can be really tough in the early days when you have a second. Lots of good advice here though. I haven't really got any more to add, only to say try not to get stressed about his horrific behaviour - as soon as he works out being really naughty gets him lots of attention - he'll keep doing it.
Go to your Mums, get as much help as you can & on bad days keep reminding yourself that it will get better!
Big hugs to you.

Angeliz · 08/03/2006 20:49

anchovies, just wanted to add my support. There was a bigger gap when i had dd, dd1 was just turned 4, and there's a thread somewhere about how i felt i was losing dd1 and just felt so sad.
Honest they ADORE each other now and anyone else comes second. I imagine a younger child finding it even harder so i do feel for you.
All i can say is, it will get better day by day and your ds will realise soon that the baby is here to saty and accept him+++++++

Original poster

anchovies · 09/03/2006 12:18

Thankyou for all your wonderful messages, I even managed a laugh at some of them! Some really useful advice which I am definitely going to put into practise. Am feeling a bit better today, it's amazing what a bit of sleep can do isn't it. I had a revelation last night when I realised that we need to stop thinking that we've ruined ds1's life(!) by having another but instead we should be remembering all the reasons why we wanted another. I don't know if anyone has read the book "Three shoes, one sock and no hairbrush" but it certainly did me no good (read it yesterday), found it really upsetting! Dh is still being wonderful and we're all going over to my mums this afternoon, me for sleep, ds1 for some fun with his nana and grandad and dh for some time with ds2.

It's great to hear that there is light at the end of the tunnel, just to know it will get easier makes it easier if you know what I mean!

OP posts:

jessicaandrebeccasmummy · 09/03/2006 12:31

Good luck Anchovies, Ive got a 15mnth age gap, and Jessica was as i called her "the devil child" for about 3 weeks after Becky was born.... she soon settled down, and a lot of that was thanks to people on here giving me the same advice you have got here...... including them in every process and the big one for us was learning not to respond to every whimper from Becky.... it didnt matter if she had to wait 5 more mins for a feed as long as i finished what i was doing with Jess.

Big hugs and lets hope it passes as quick as it did for me xxx

pashmina · 09/03/2006 13:05

good luck anchovies, mine are 16 months apart, and at first it seemed impossible, try to give the tooddler plenty of love and support,he really needs it, and no harm will come to the baby if left to cry for an extra mintue. I hope you have plenty of support, it really does get better

muppety · 09/03/2006 17:04

It could have been me writing that. ds1 was 20m when I had ds2 by c section. I felt terrible. In a lot of pain. Anaemic. ds1 was agressive towards ds2 and said he didn't love me any more. I found it soooo much harder than the first time round. Plus I also read the hairbrush/sock book. Bin it I say it really didn't help!WE moved house when ds2 was 8w and I had to do all the packingand unpacking. I thought I was really losing the plot when we all came down with D+v the night before the move.

Anyway ds2 is now 10m and its much better. Its been a difficult few months. ds2 howver adores his big brother and I think ds1 loves his baby brother most of the time. They make each other laugh which is great. ds1 is still a bit rough but I try to take more of a bckseat now and try not to step in all the time. Now I just love having 2 but I really really really do understand.

4blue1pink · 09/03/2006 17:26

Just wanted to say i read this thread with tears in my eyes as it sounded so like what i am going through with dc4 and baby (5)
Never experienced it with any of the others....read threads last night - took advice and put it into action and no word of a lie today has been soo much better.
Glad to know i am not alone!

Keziah - how many do you have - when you say 'most'!!!?

Poppyshed · 09/03/2006 20:14

Anchovies, congrats on the new baby and good luck with using all the marvellous advice given here. I have 13 month old dd and have just found out no.2 is on the way. I will remember this thread I'm sure if this baby comes safe and sound before the year is out, and my sanity is threatened!!!

keziah · 09/03/2006 20:19

I think we must have the same number 4blue1pink! Just had my fifth. Can't quite believe it really. I've got three girls and two boys. Oldest is eight. I think I only had two when I first posted on mumsnet. It was a despairing and desperate post and I got loads of very kind advice!!
Hope Anchovies ok. Sleep is key!

Em32 · 09/03/2006 20:26

Just wanted to add my support. I have a 19 month gap between my two which bizarrely has probably made the jealousy issues less of a problem but it has been bloody hard work. Ds is very good with dd at the moment but he did go through a phase of hitting, kicking and biting us which imo was his way of telling us he was angry with us for having dd. He is very sweet with her now though and when you see them laughing together (he is 2 and 1 month and she is 6 months) it makes it all worth it. My mum said I used to hit other children (though not my sister) when she was born but the phase passed. Ds definitely went through a phase of not wanting me at all and was a really daddy's boy but he's come back to me now (which was a relief). Dh said he felt it took much longer to bond with dd for him but I think that's normal with second children. Hang in there.....

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