18 month toddler wakes up screaming, mother tired and desperate!

[DesertFox]

DS is nearly eighteen months now, he's never been what you might call a good sleeper, but recently it seems to have been getting worse.
We have a long established bedtime routine and he goes off ok at about 7, but then he pretty much always wakes at 8.30, I can usually get him back then quite easily, but at 10 he usually wakes up again, and although most times I can get him back to sleep, he wakes up again 20 mins later and keeps doing this until in desperation I take him into the spare bed, where often he still cries, but eventually sleeps with me.
Often by the time I get into his room he is standing up screaming and looking at the door waiting for me. Sometimes I spend an hour and a half getting him back to sleep in his cot and then just start to go to sleep in my bed and he wakes again - aaarrrggghh.
I struggle to get him to nap at all in the day, and he always wakes up after half an hour and won't go back to sleep.
He's such a gorgeous child, but I am at my wits end about this. I need my sleep. DP wakes at night too, but I'm an eight hours a night person and I need it. And I want to sleep in my own bed with DP (and it hasn't worked with the three of us in there - DP and DS keep each other up!). AND I've got people coming to stay in a month so won't be able to use spare bed option...
I've tried the no cry sleep solution for toddlers and preschoolers, but hasn't worked so far. Does anyone know of any books / websites that have helped (that don't advise leaving them crying - we tried that at one point, but it felt wrong, and he can cry for a really long time..).
Just knowing that I am not the only person going through this would help!

This is very similar to a phase I went through with my DS. It is so tiring isn't it. In some ways I found it more difficult to having a newborn because he was so active during the day and so physical at night.

I am afraid to say that the way that helped us was indeed letting him cry and being strict with him when he did wake up.
It isn't 100% yet, but I am getting 5 to 6hrs sleep in one block and feeling slightly better because of it.

I used to get up for an hour with mine. Give them something to eat(usually weetabix). Let them play. After about an hour they would be ready to go to bed to sleep until morning. Found it easier to get up for the hour than fight for 1.5 to 2 hours trying to get them to sleep and getting more and more frustrated. Got used to it and would often watch a recorded film or something. Made it our time. Low lights, warm fire etc. Eventually, child grew out of it and didn't wake.
Another suggestion - when he wakes at 8:30 you could let him stay up until you either take him up with you or he falls asleep whichever comes first.
If you need your sleep (I'm the same ) why not you go to bed at 8:30 one night and ds stay up with your dp until he goes to bed. Dp can put ds to bed and then if ds wakes you won't be too tired , if he doesn't wake you get a good night's sleep.

It has been known for some children of this age to have already dropped their daytime sleep or if you don't think he would cope with this try putting him to bed later?
Another thing that can work with some is the radio on very low in the room classical fm or something!
Aside from all of this a strict bed routine and letting him cry? I know it seems mean but he is perfectly safe, go in every 10 mins (no talking) so he knows you are there, could take quite a few nights if he is stubborn but worth it in the end.

is the no cry solution the same as controlled crying ?

What seems to have happened is your DS hasn't learnet to fall asleep alone & when he does fall asleep, you're with him, then when he wakes he is all alone - so probably why he crys.

I suggest giving the controlled crying 100% effort for a week - my experience (although only from jetlag) is after just one night (2 in my friends case of a waking in the nighter) there is a big change.

The solutions do work, but you have to be strong & give them chance to work.

I feel for you, because I also need my sleep, but the only way you're goiing to get back in control, is if you are firm & consistant.

You could also try putting him to bed a little later...7:30 ?

Good luck - BTW the way this months practical parenting has an article about sleeping & several theories to follow

Mojomummy, the no cry thing is a book by Elizabeth Pantley, it's different from controlled crying - ways to try and get them to sleep through without that...

Juuule, do they sleep through now? When did they grow out of the weetabix & play thing? The thing is I've got a real clash of sleep patterns here - I'm a really solid sleeper (or was till DS came along!!) and apparently slept all the time as baby etc, DP still doesn't sleep through at 37!! He finds it v frustrating - wakes up in middle of night and can't get back to sleep. His parents used to get him up in night, and leave him with light on and book and I worry if I do same then DS will NEVER sleep through like DP....

DesertFox - It's difficult to remember just how long these things went on for. It just became a pattern of life. The weetabix/play thing averaged about 3-6months. It would become less frequent and then we would realise baby/child wasn't waking in the night anymore. Our teens (18,16,14,13) sleep like logs. Our 11y,9y,7y go to bed at 8pm and sleep through until woken in the morning. 2yo falls asleep at about 9pm and sleeps until morning. Our just 6yo is still what I would call a restless sleeper. She doesn't settle until around 9-9:30. She sometimes wakes at around 5:30-6am and has always been somewhat insecure. Obviously there are odd nights that don't follow the above pattern and slight variations with each child.
I would think it's more to do with your dh's personality that he doesn't sleep for long stretches of time. I presume his parents gave him a book because he couldn't sleep and didn't deliberately wake him up (what parent in their right mind would do that)

Juuule, didn't mean that they woke him up,they are not quite that crazy but when he woke up they got him out of bed & bedroom, generally I have been trying to keep DS in darkened room to show night is for sleeping etc etc, but you sound like you have lots of experience, not surprised you can't remember details!!!

Just to say - if the child is drowsy then i do encourage back to sleep and stuff. Think you are absolutely right to have darkened room and show night is for sleeping. I only get up if they are obviously wide awake or can tell they are not going to settle. Even so, when I do get up with one of them we are quiet and emphasise it's night time and to hush everyone else is asleep. Lights are low. If I put tv on it's turned low. I keep everything low-key. I don't encourage play-time or join in. I just don't insist on them lying down and going to sleep. Eventually, they unwind, get bored and want to go to sleep. Tried the usual methods on the eldest and can't say we got him sleeping through any quicker than just going with the flow for the others - Just got more and more stressed and sometimes ended up all night and everyone tired and cranky the next day.

Thanks Juuule, that sounds like wise advice.

I think what's bothering me most (apart from the exhaustion ) is that he's actually crying and sometimes screaming. Even when he's in bed with me and he wakes up - so it's not just about waking up and finding I'm not there... I was worried that he was in pain so I took him to the doctor, the first one I saw suggested he might have reflux, but the medication she prescribed didn't seem to make any difference and when I went back and saw another doctor the second one thought that wasn't the problem. Is the screaming normal? Does anyone else out there have a toddler who screams at night, even when you have gone in to comfort them?

Look at all the options - not one for CC myself - went with the Baby Whisperer approach - it worked but took its time - a few weeks - now dd sleeps 12 hours + without waking - think if you get him into the habit of settling himself - whichever way you choose to do it and sleeping in bed it will improve. Is he teething - had problems when dd had her last lot of molars.

desertfox, I expect he's screaming in rage at being on his own !

Have you seen the TV programmes? When they cry, go back comfort, put back into bed, walk away. Continue all night if necessary. Same the next night. It always gets better & a few nights of this are surely worth 8-12 hrs of sleep when he realises that he's not going in your bed with you. All he's learnt so far is the more fuss he makes, the quicker it is into your bed.

I might sound harsh, but I don't mean to. I would hate for you to experience what an old friend went through, where they had a small bed next to theirs. The mum & dad would take it in turns to lay down in bed with their DS until he was asleep. Then they'd managed to get downstairs & then at bedtime the 3 of them would be in bed. They got divorced a few years later as it just got too much for them.

if you feel there is something wrong with him, what about trying him with a cranial oesteopath ?

Mojomummy - agree with this - my pal still lies down until her daughters go to sleep they are 4 and 6 - plus when they stay with any friends 1 parent sleeps with each child -nightmare!

We did try the controlled crying thing for quite a while, and it did improve things a bit, but DS's waking didn't stop altogether and I was even more stressed out than with less sleep as couldn't bear listening to him crying like that. DP hated it and thought was really cruel - trust me, if anything was likely to cause relationship breakdown it was that!!
Having said that I really do want to get back to normal sleeping arrangements with DP and think is important for us. Maybe am unrealistic wanting happy sleeping baby with no crying - am so jealous of people who have the kind that just sleep .
Think probably have to be firmer in terms of keeping him in bed, and just persist, is so hard though when is middle of night and am v tired and want to sleep more than anything. Find myself getting frustrated with DS in night and I'm sure he can sense that and it doesn't help.

RedRidingHood, what does the baby whisperer say?

Desert Fox - you could be me. DS is 16 mo, goes to bed alone, happy and waving night-night at @ 8.30. Wakes at some point between 11 and 12.30 and is then impossible to settle, except in our bed (where he still wakes up again- and wakes us - at 4ish and 6ish) Haven't yet had the stomach for CC, though I am ready to try it, DH is reluctant. But I think this week is the week.

Managed to keep him in his cot last night! Had to get up at 1 and 4.30 and 5, and for good at 6.30, but still, feels good to have slept in own bed all night... Think talking it through yesterday gave me extra reslove...

add me in to the 'non-sleeping toddler group!' ds is 20 months now. you can read my thread \linkwww.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=5&threadid=149532&stamp=060224210744\here}.

i empathise SO completely with you! the lack of sleep is wearing both me and dh down to the point where we are rowing more and because im so tired during the day, i dont have the tolerance i should for ds :(

have you spoke to your hv? i know the hv group that operates in our area sometimes runs 'sleep clinics'. i havent read all of this thread (purely due to lack of time, ds just went down for a nap and have tons to do, but wanted to write back, if to nothing more then to let you know you arent alone!)

my hv gave loads of advice (which i dont think i posted in my thread) - unfortunately none of it has worked with ds. (if you want, i will repeat what she said.)

we havent done CC because he isnt crying and if we go in and then leave, he does cry. and that makes it a whole lot worse.

its hard.. and i hope your ds starts to sleep thru for you. hang in there....
and i hope you like coffee, too :)

(*if you'd like to chat offboard, let me know, would be up for it!)

that link should be:

\link{http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=5&threadid=149532&stamp=060224210744\here}

Thanks lunarx, read your thread, we have tried most stuff I think - plenty of excercise, he doesn't nap much anyway (and no cry sleep solution claims lack of napping actually CAUSES night waking...) My DS has mouth full of teeth - has been teething pretty much constantly since 3 months, but I'm not convinced that's the problem either... Am begining to resign myself to the fact that I think it's a combination of factors including genetic predisposition to wake up (his dad is just the same and was nightmare as baby/toddler too...). I used to think I would hit on the answer but am beginning to let go of that as a hope... I'm interested in what MrsBigD said in your thread - I think PART of our prob is some sort of tummy upset, doctors were unclear on reflux, but I think he has wind at night and often has bad breath. I have been trying to make his evening meal tummy-friendly, but not sure what best foods are.
It's so hard, isn't it, when you've got a bright, lively, toddler in the day and you're exhausted? Though I think sometimes my DS is tired too due to lack of napping / bad nightime sleep...
Anyway, guess no choice but to hang in there and keep going, fortunately DP understanding as same himself, but know he wants me back in the bed !

Desertfox, you slept in your own bed..FANTASTIC !!

So he woke a few times, but you managed it & so did he & you're living to tell the tale

Stick with it (please !) & let us know how you got on.

BTW Have just moved DD (32 months) into her own bed, from a cot...my lovely mornings are all over now as she can climb over the protector that holds her in, damn it !

its a phase that lasted 2 years with my dd i used both baby whisperer and gina ford sleeping book and just perservered and refused to give in! dd went down no prob at 7 but would wake up every hr or so screaming i would just go in reassure her tell her to lie down go to sleep etc sometimes she would go back of in 5 mins and sometimes it took over an hour but i never got her out of cot or did eye contact thing. occasionally she even slept through but then i would tend to wake her up as i thought she was dead!! then all of a sudden a couple of weeks ago she started sleeping through and i now have to wake her up at 9am yday she let me lie in til after 10 i was very grateful!! i think the answer is just consistency and eventually they get the message its not worth waking up, it was also suggested to me when the problem got worse about 18 months it was all connected to seperation anxiety and they just wanted reassurance that you were still there screaming did stop a bit when i put her to sleep on top of a t shirt i had been wearing thinking that if she could smell me then she might be a bit more reassured.

Aaarrggh not so good last night, I slept in his COT. . He woke at 11:30 and I had been asleep in bed, I went through and spent an hour or so trying to get him back to sleep and he was having none of it, I was so tired and cold (had forgotten to put slippers on) that in desperation I got in with him.... and woke up at 5.17. It's not the first time I've done this, but that's the longest I've slept for. Not sure whether it's better or worse than taking him to spare bed. Definitely less comfy for me...

Hi Desertfox

I haven't read all of the replies here, but just wanted to add a note of support. Your post here describes both of my sons, but my ds1 perfectly. I used to put him down in his own bed at 7.30, settle him back at 10,00 and then join him at 11 or 12, when he woke the next time. Just like you couldn't do three in a bed for the same reasons.

I had to keep going until he was 2.9, although was able to join him later and later, and leave earlier and earlier. Then one day it stopped and now he sleeps for England. It seemed like a long time, but we tried other methods - controlled crying for 3.5 hours was our record. Horrid.

It seemed like a long time while it was happening, and I missed sleeping with dh lots, but I need some sleep to function in the day and since dh cannot wake in the night without getting ill the next week, it was how we survived. It doesn't mean that your ds will never be able to settle to sleep on his own. He will and this will all be another of those phases you went through.

Wishing you lots of sleep, somehow, somewhen.

I can recommend my website

idontlikecrusts.co.uk

I really feel for you. There are certainly ways to deal with this without agonising hours of listening to them cry. I'd describe here but !. I'd lose business and 2. it has to be demonstrated really.

Essentially though, you need to be firm,loving and consistent. Look out for sky news's feature on me where I publish a 5 point plan to help with sleep 'training'. It will be in the Lifestyle section of their news site by the end of this week - hopefully!

Good Luck.