feel like i am being called stupid and a liar and being ignored!

[PooPooInMyToes]

Crap morning today

My six year old needed to take xyz into school today. I told her and she instantly got The Face! The "i Don't believe anything you say" face.

She looks upset when she is like this but just won't believe me. She'll ask me if i am sure? But what if you are wrong?

I tell her Im not wrong.

But how do you know.

Because i read the letter.

But where is the letter?

I don't know but xyz had to be taken in on the first day back which is today.

How do you know? What if you are wrong?

Im not wrong, i read the letter. Will you just believe me for once!

Etc etc etc

I ended up shouting reading the letter out.

I am sick of this. She doesn't believe anything anyone says and has to see proof. Even things such as if we have run out of cereal, she always wants me to show her in the cupboard as she needs to see it herself. I have actually been refusing to do that one for a long time so that's not an issue anymore.

If we are out in the car she tells me i am driving wrong, going the wrong way, too far behind the car in front. I told her a few days ago that i don't want to hear about how to drive from a 6 year old who has never driven a car!

So anyway this morning i got really angry and was shouting at her that she needs to believe me and that i am not a liar. Why is she calling me a liar etc! That its bloody rude! That i feel that she must think i am stupid. Why is she calling me stupid!

On top of that i had my nearly 4 year old doing the opposite of everything i ask. Put your coat on properly, he takes it off. Don't swing the umbrella, you'll poke yourself in the eye, he swings the umbrella. He either is incapable of listening or is choosing not to, i don't know which. He's worrying me. Some of the things he does are dangerous so i need him to listen. I turn his face to me to make sure he is listening but he will just turn his eyes away!

I'm just learning that I have to choose my battles as I can't win them all

Dd1 is 7, dd2 is 2 and ds1 is 6 weeks.

Most mornings are a battle and I have to admit defeat and go with it some days!

PooPooInMyToes

well, you said that you were "shouting reading the letter", which sounded angry. I was genuinely asking whether or not you were shouting in his face, because it sounded like you might be.

So you hold his face facing yours while you tell him off?

And you don't want to allow him to turn his eyes away from you?

To be totally honest, it sounds like the problem is yours not his.

Toaster. The letter was regarding my daughter not my son. So i read the letter to her. He was in the other room at the time. It was nothing to do with him.

Yes i turn his face towards me. Think that is a perfectly normal thing to do to ensure your child is listening. In fact when i have posted on here that my child isn't listening i have been advised by multiple posters to make sure the child is making eye contact when talking to them. So yes i get down to his level and have him stop playing and running around and if necessary i turn his face to me and ask him to look at me so i know he is listening. He still avoids it though and looks elsewhere because he would rather be off playing.

Hmm.

Sounds to me like you're treating them aggressively, and they're treating you aggressively in return.

Toaster. I must say i think you are talking bull. Making sure a child is looking at you when you are talking to them about something important is standard.

I can only go by what you've written above - it sounds to me like you're treating them aggressively.

I get a child to look at me by telling them to, not by forcibly holding their head facing mine.

You say you "feel like [you are] being called stupid and a liar" when your kids aren't calling you either of those things.

This is what you said above:

"So anyway this morning i got really angry and was shouting at her that she needs to believe me and that i am not a liar. Why is she calling me a liar etc! That its bloody rude! That i feel that she must think i am stupid. Why is she calling me stupid!"

I'm not surprised that you want to ignore my opinion.

You sound like a really aggressive person - it's not surprising that your kids behave to you the same way that you behave to them.

The only difference is that their behaviour is more passive-aggressive whereas yours is flat-out aggressive.

And how on earth are my children behaving aggressively!

Xposted.

You know what i think . . . You've made a statement about my shouting in my sons face which i never did. I've told you this but you don't want to be wrong and so are now going to defend that opinion to the death. I've seen it on mn a thousand times before and frankly i can't be bothered to play that silly little game. Its pathetic.

If it were me i would admit that i misread and leave it at that.

Oh and yes i said i "forcibly" held his head! Or perhaps i gently turned his face to mine?

But no, saying that wouldn't help you win your pointless argument.

Angry with me now, huh? I'm not at all surprised.

I've not "made a statement about my shouting in my sons face" - I asked you a question, whether or not you did. That's not the same thing.

The ways in which I think your children are behaving passive-aggressively to you, are that:

• your daughter is questioning everything you say to her, to an unreasonable degree, and

• your son is ignoring pretty much everything you tell him to do,

(at least, that's what I understood you to say above).

I think they're both doing those things to annoy you, because:

• annoying you gets your attention,

• they feel angry and resentful towards you.

The way in which I think you are behaving aggressively to them, are that:

• you're shouting at them,

• you're fabricating their side of the argument ("you don't believe me? you're saying I'm a liar then? I'm not a liar! You're saying I'm stupid then? I'm not stupid!" - that kind of thing),

• you seem to want to dominate them.

I'm only going by what you've written yourself above.

BTW, when I'm saying "passive-aggressive" this is what I'm meaning:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive%E2%80%93aggressive_behavior

"Passive aggressive behavior can manifest itself as learned helplessness, procrastination, hostility masquerading as jokes, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible."

^ I've highlighted the things which seem (to me) to match what you're describing in your children's behaviour.

I think a child looking at you while you are talking is about respect and I have turned my childrens faces towards me before when I am telling them off/telling them to do something, this is not an aggressive act, this is me ensuring I am being treated with the respect i deserve!

If they talk to me I don't look away from them while they are doing it and I expect them to have that same level of courtesy.

From what you have said OP i believe you do the same as I would and i can't see how this is aggresive in the slightest!

As for your DD, it sounds like a hard situation here, and I have no experience although can see how frustrating it must be to have to prove yourself over and over to a 6yo, I think other posters are right and just don't argue about it. It does take 2 to argue.

Good luck

StaceymReadyForNumber3 you don't think it's rather controlling to want to dictate which direction they point their eyes?

IMO a kid has a right to some degree of decision-making over what their body is doing.

I have never tried to point their eyes, and obviously they have every right to do with their body what they wish, but i have turned their heads to look at me. (however if they do chose to carry on ignoring me their actions have consequences, ie being sent to the 'naughty step' to think about how they would feel if I ignored them like that) It is completely disrespectful to turn your face away from somebody when they are talking to you, end of story. I won't accept disrespect from my children.

I think Toaster has been a little harsh.

OP, I think the best thing to do is what another poster suggested and just say calmly 'ok, well the letter says you need to take XYZ, but if you disagree then don't take the items in with you' and just walk off. Believe me, she will soon come running after you asking to take the items with her.

My 8 year old DD is similar to an extent; she often questions me on things, but I am happy for her to do this as I'm glad she is assertive and feels confident enough to question things she is unsure of or disagrees with

I'm short on sleep, I may be being harsh.

Stacey, re the eyes, I meant the OP rather than you. She made him point his head at her but was annoyed that "he will just turn his eyes away!".

I too would expect eye contact from a child when we're having a conversation, but I wouldn't physically move their head to get it - with me, like you, it would be a 'consequences of not doing it' type of thing, rather than a 'turn your head or I'll turn it for you' type of thing.

I do see some danger signs from OP which concern me, particularly this warping of the child's constant questioning (however annoying, and no doubt intentionally annoying on the kid's part) into the accusation that the parent is stupid and/or a liar.

The parent responds as though the kid has been insulting them when the kid has not in fact been insulting them. That's not a good sign. The parent is casting herself as the victim and the child as the aggressor.

It's a lot easier for the OP to get angry with me than to face up to her own issues with anger, and the way they're being played out in her poor relationship with her children.

Lemarch. Thank you i will.

Stacey. Yes i do the same as you. I think eye contact is important to connect properly. And yes there is no point arguing with my children, you are right.

Hexagonal. Yeah on a good day i am glad my child is assertive too. It will be good in the long run. I think she has started to really worry about taking things in on the wrong day, probably as she's becoming more self aware.

you're fabricating their side of the argument ("you don't believe me? you're saying I'm a liar then? I'm not a liar! You're saying I'm stupid then? I'm not stupid!" - that kind of thing),

I wrote that stuff whilst upset last Monday! That was my feelings at the time. Not now.

I want to dominate my children?! Wtf

Yes I think they do become quite self-aware around the age of 6. My DD2 certainly did.

OK then, ignore me.

Enjoy your perfect family life.

It sounds like such fun! Your children disobey you and you shout at them. Peachy.

It's a lot easier for the OP to get angry with me than to face up to her own issues with anger, and the way they're being played out in her poor relationship with her children.

A. I've already talked about how unhappy i am that i shout sometimes and the cbt i am about to start, so that makes your "not facing up to my issues" statement a load of rubbish.

B. You have made a huge sweeping statement on my relationship with my children based on how upset i was for ten mins last Monday. Do you normally hang around the parenting section being so judgmental and sanctimonious? Do you normal judge the many posters who are having a bad day? How useful your input must be.

Why, thank you!

I can see that you're a lovely person. No anger issues at all. No sir-ee.

kisses!

Hi
Ds2 often disagrees with me on trivial stuff. I find that the best way to see if he genuinely disagrees (as opposed to just being a contrary bugger) if to offer him a bet.
This shows him that I really do believe what I'm saying and makes him think about whether it is likely that he is right.
He has never yet taken up the bet. :)

BTW where did you talk about "how unhappy i am that i shout sometimes and the cbt i am about to start"?

I didn't see that at all.

Something else for you to be angry with me for, no doubt.