How can I be more patient with my kids? I need to be nicer to them. Please help.

[Bumperlicious]

I know the rules, I've read the books (How To Talk etc.), I've got a couple of psychology degrees. I know what I should say and how I should behave. But when it comes down to it my immediate reaction (mainly to 4.5 yo DD1) is to shout, or not always shout - hiss angrily is more like it, or just nag.

I've got to give the poor kid a break, she is so young still and I expect such a lot. But my patience is on a long term thin patch, and, well, she's four, she behaves like a four year old. She has regular wee accidents which she doesn't tell me about (seen dr, referral refused due to her age). Whenever I cook she has a constant complaint about what knife/fork/plate/amount she has. You have to tell her a million times to get her to do anything. When we do something nice she cries when we have to go/has to stop. All usual 4yo stuff, but it drains me. I have a nearly two year old too, and I can manage to be more patient with her, which makes my attitude to her older sister all the more marked.

God, I sound horrible don't I? I need strategies that I can use, something simple that I can remind myself in the heat of the moment. Any advice or tips?

You sound stressed out. I often take my stress out on my kids and it makes me feel so guilty.

Good tactics (when I can remember them) are...

• lots of praise for good behaviour
• ignore bad behaviour unless something or someone is at risk - a lot of it is just attention seeking
• distract, distract, distract her when she annoys you - change the subject, point to something imaginary outside the window, break into song, or leave the room. Anything to avoid snapping.
• apologise when you've been out of order. It will teach her to do the same.

Oh Bumper! Its very difficult.

You remember the thing about picking your battles? Perhaps you'll need to apply that to which behaviours you will allow yourself to get cross about - you do not have to be a perfect, patient, smiley Mum all the time, because you are human.

So, you know that she is always going to cry when you leave somewhere nice ... let that one go (she will grow out of it), you could try asking her which plate or knife she would like (?) and tell her she doesn't have to eat it all if its too much, rewards for dry knicker days, but perhaps be a bit firmer with her over getting her to do stuff.

In other words, make a conscious decision to let some of her typical 4 year old behaviour wash over you, but that doesn't mean you have to let her walk all over you either .

Can't believe your littlest one is two already!

What about the "followed by a filmcrew" technique someone mentioned on here ages ago - you imagine you're the subject of a reality show (presenter Kirstie Allsop,for some reason) and being filmed all the time,so you deal with your children As If The Nation Is Watching. I can imagine scenarios where one ends up yelling at child and then punching imaginary Kirstie, but as a kind of behaviour modification tool - life hopefully imitating artifice- it might be useful.

You don't sound horrible, I do exactly the same. It does tend to focus around flash-points though, ie; in the morning before school and work and at bedtime, which is forever running late due to the DC's messing around. How many years does it take to get them to get dressed / undressed without a screaming match . I still have to rugby tackle 3.7 yo DD a lot of the time then I get kicked or spat at.

5.7 DS will argue about anything for the hell of it, everything is turned into a battle no matter how easy it is, how important it is or how fun I make it. I feel quite defeated these days. And you're right it's very draining, one DC stops and the other starts so I never get chance to calm down.

My mum thinks I should just leave the kids (5.6 and 3.7) to squabble a bit more and not constantly wade in as it's just tipping me over the edge and stops me from getting anything done. I do always praise them when they are good though and I apologise when I really lose my rag.

Thanks both. I am a bit stressed. Dd2 has been ill half the week now DH has it so have had to take 2 days off work. Dd2 doesn't sleep well so I've been tired for about 2 years. None of it is any excuse. I wouldn't talk to anyone else the way I do DD1. :( I'm becoming more and more like my mother who was always v angry & stressy when we were kids.

Picking the battles is a good tip. I always used to say "but I never know that there is going to be a battle till I'm in it" but after nearly 5 years I think I do know. Got to remind myself she is only 4 (well, nearly 5). The thing is she is such a bright little thing & really socially developed that I forget she is barely more than a baby, and I have such high expectations of her.

I like the suggestion of imagining a film crew.

If mealtimes are an issue, get her to help lay the table- that way she can choose her tablemat, plate, cutlery etc and serve food family style and then everyone helps themselves. She'll feel so grown up doing it, and can take as much or as little as she likes but don't fuss if she only takes a smidge to begin with.

The accidents maybe have a star chart with a reward of her choosing?

It is hard to take a step back and chill out. I have heaps of patience with other people's children but so much less with my own!

yy, dd is like that,plus tall, so I do expect too much of her, esp as ds is smaller than she was at his age (he's 2.8, she's 5.8), so he seems even more little - and yes, he doesn't sleep, but she gets the fallout. I try to always apologise to dd -something that didn't seem to happen in my family - let her know I get things wrong. She also loves that I genuinely admire things in her -she says "you really wish you were more like me?".

I think there is a lot to be said for simply recognising that you're doing it- just that awareness can slow things down - we realised that we were being too hard on dd and that conscious discussion between us did help.

I used to sing a lot at this stage to cover up my frustration.

Also picture myself as a nanny or headteacher- you know the slightly oldfashioned kind with a sensible skirt and 40 years experience who simply can't be thrown by a silly little child because she's seen so many. Same thing as the film crew really.

I think a lot of children crave the feeling of maturity.
If you want them to cooperate, they like to have choices.
It doesn't mean they're in charge, but they feel as though they are.

For example, if you want them to eat veg "would you like peas or carrots?"
They can choose, but they're still doing what you want them to do.
And as they've been given a choice, they're much more likely to be happy about it and give you an answer.
I suppose you could do the same with her cutlery etc?

When my DD gets upset about leaving somewhere (which is a definite every time) I try and distract her happily with something else. Milky bar buttons are good

As for coping methods, staying relaxed and such, when my DD stresses me out I try and remind myself that she is just a child, she depends on me, i'm her mummy, the most important person in her life. It makes me feel like i'm a lot more in control when I think like that and I feel much more gentle and caring towards her.

I suppose different things work for different people, but we all know that parenting is hard, and the fact you want to change the way you are with her is good. :)

I wish you and your DC all the best!

Playful parenting, play as much together as you can stand.

I recognise your description well, and 4 years is a hard age. But perhaps it is worthwhile recognising that this "4 yo stuff" does not have to be that you get all worked up about. THe complaints, the reluctance (god I know EXACTLY what you mean! It can be mindnumbing... ) - for you it is upsetting, but it is also to her. Wee accidents are not distressing only for you, they are distressing for her (which is probably why she does not tell you). World is a big wide place which she has little control over and understanding about.

So she expresses her emotions. In various ways, from tantrums to whines, from covering up accidents to complaints. And this is what gets us, parents. We feel we have to solve whatever has caused the issue -- either by punishing for the behaviour or whine (e.g time out, withdrawing attention etc), or by rewarding the "good" behaviour. THis can be extremely frustrating, mostly because it works only some of the time and rarely ever in the long run (canät really imagine the 16 yo sitting in a time out or putting stickers up for...ummm...not smoking... :) ).

But there is a third way. To set limits, in a friendly fashion, not by yelling, obviously, and then accepting the protests, staying with the child as s/he rages or cries. When you listen and support to your child as he complains and whines, rages and tantrums, it has a strange effect which makes them more cooperative and easier to live with, and much more self-regulated, i.e. motivated to follow the rules of the house. By listening you convey the message that she as a person is fully acceptable to you, with her feelings and everything. She will get along better with you and herself - as you have psychology degrees, no need to explain this in detail. You might also find Aletha SOlter's "Tears and tantrums" or "Helping young children flourish" helpful to understand the more scientific reasons for such approach and to gain many more tips and examples to deal with your child in a more accepting way.

What I want to stress here once more, is that this approach relieves the parent - from having to solve problems. I have experienced this myself, and can certainly confirm it works wonders not only on children but on parents' peace of mind.

I do the singing thing. It's impossible (well nearly ) to shout whilst singing. Sometimes I sing "everybodys happy now" to the tune of "there was a princess long ago". Ironically of course!

I was going to write your post this time last week after being such a complete bitch to my 4 year old (also have a nearly 2 year old). I think I always lose my rag when we've had a good patch, and so I have higher expectations, and then things seem to spiral into whingey tantruming hell again. I also spiral out of control, snap and shout, nag, do a massive temper loss thing, and then feel awful. Ill 2 year old doesn't help either.

After my meltdown with her last tuesday, I made myself make a plan with lots of strategies I've used in the past when we have had a shitbag phase. Its like I don't use them for a bit, and then forget how to deal with stuff. And then when I use the strategies things are a bit better. For me, I need consciously to do ridiculous distraction techniques when she is about to use it, a spot of empathy when she is whining, and get the reward chart out again. Seems to help us both get through it. And to be honest the week has been better and although she has been whingey, I've felt equipped to deal with it. Oh, and instead of a film crew I had my mother in law watching all weekend. I expect that helped me bite my tongue!

its bloody hard though isn't it.

about to lose it, not use it! Doh.

Useful thread - I have a 4.6yo with exactly the same type of behaviour.. it's really really hard.

Love 'shitbag phase'

This is a very helpful thread, I also have a 4.5 yr old and a nearly 2 yr old and feel like bitch-mummy a lot of the time.
My 4.5 yr old DS is very verbal and I think sometimes I just forget how young he is and how high my expectations of him are.
Like a PP said, I wouldn't speak to anyone the way I sometimes speak to DS1. My mum was very similar and I can still remember her meltdowns.
Must do better!

I struggle to be the Mum I want to be most days and revert to shouty Mummy all too often.

I really find Bach flower remedies a god send. I use calm down drops which are a blend, Impatients for me and Holly for the children when they are being typical scratchy siblings. I do find myself 'channelling the power of Impatients' and trying harder!! I used to have a great practitioner who mixed remedies for me but now, I've bought a book from the health food shop and a selection of remedies. They have been fantastically useful and if they are simply a placebo, they will hopefully save my kids in therapy costs.

I have also recently started yoga and on day one, the teacher said something along the lines of 'use this energy to take into your lives to empower you to be more patient with your kids'. 5 out 6 Mummies in the room were indeed more patient with their kids! Being 'given' the power to rather than being told to seemed to make a differnce!!

Whacky, I know...... but the power of the mind to change our perspective on our situation is not to be underestimated!

This is an ironic thing to say as I really struggle with it, but can you work out a way to get any more sleep? I find it makes a HUGE difference to my patience levels (and I have a 2.5 y.o. non-sleeper).

Do you eat a lot of sugar / really like sugar? Could your diet be having an effect? Some people are more sensitive than others to the effects of sugar and varying blood sugar levels. I am, and I can always tell when my blood sugar is dropping by the way I suddenly start snapping at DS. There's an eating plan to deal with it here - basically, eating plenty of protein and wholemeal carbs at regular intervals (though you work your way up to that gradually).

I have three - (6.2, 3.3 and 10 months) and I always feel guilty at the end of every day... I don't know what the answer is but I have been seeing a counsellor recently for stuff which is coming back to haunt me and she has actually helped me a bit with my parenting. Not through any techniques but just through mending some of the past.

One thing I do find helps massively is PLANNING! I make sure everything for the following day is ready (nursery run, school run etc), i don't start bedtime until I have everything ready, I plan meals for the week... I have a diary and use it to block out time for when I am preparing etc. I find that the more organised I am, the less stressed I get when the kids start squabbling.

Also, I tell the kids in advance what will be happening and try to keep something good for leaving time. i.e. today we're going to blabla and we'll stay there for 2 hours and then on the way home, as long as everyone's been really good, we'll have a packet of crisps/ice lolly etc... that way they don't get too hungry, and they're also happy to leave. Bit of bribery never hurt anyone... :)

bippyhippy - it might be useful to check out a book by Aletha Solter, "TEars and Tantrums", or "Helping young people flourish". Both recognise those parental "issues" that may interfere with adequate parenting and offer very sound advice on how to cope better.

Bumper you sound normal! Either that or I'm a horrid mother too. Theory's ever so much easier than practice and don't even mention guilt.

Do you get a chance over half term for everyone to have a bit of special time, or do something special as a family? That sort of thing helps remind me that I can do it, and give me a bit of a reboot.

Also, if you're tired, have a cup of tea or coffee at flash points. I found that a cuppa while they had their tea made a difference. This may jinx it, but DS2 has only just started sleeping through reliably; DH and I have built up quite a coffee habit!

Mine are 4.8 and 2.6 and I have started to tell them to negotiate with one another, or 'sort it out between yourselves'. And last night DS1 did a lovely thing. They get a bit of wind-down TV before bed and take turns to choose. It was DS1's turn and DS2 (v tired) began wailing, so DS1 chose something he knew DS2 would like, rather than what he was going to choose. So proud!

So, grab the positives - we're in for the long haul. Print this thread out and re-read in 10 years!

I think you need to make sure you get enough sleep/rest/me time to be able to cope.

Is you kid getting enough sleep and rest?

Get everything ready the night before to make your day as easy as possible.

Use a timer to get things done. OK you have 5 mins and when the alarm goes off we can do xx

Get ready before breakfast.

With whining. Ask her to say it again politely/ nicely and in a nice voice. (I hate the green spoon ugh it's awful i want the ink one now - please can i have the pink spoon mum, thanks)

Always be polite to her. Treat her how you would want to be treated. Use time out if you think you are going to lose it.

Spend time with each child alone

I'm always a crap shouty mum when I'm irked. Much better when I'm not.

Is there any way you can grab some time to yourself during the week, to rest or exercise etc?

Irked? Strange but appropriate auto correct! I meant tired of course.

Thanks for all the tips and lovely replies. I've been a little bit more conscious about things the past few days and there have been less fights. Unfortunately DD2 has hit the terrible twos a few months early so there is still plenty of drama!