The shouty mums' underground lair - join me

[DitaVonCheese]

Having a bad, shouty day after week or so of being a calm zen-like mum. Feel crap. Anyone else out there?

There comes a point when arguing with 3 yo DD when I just tip over and end up shouting "Oh just bloody do it then, I don't care!". This is not good parenting. Argh. Roll on 6 o'clock.

I feel your pain. My DD's have whined and bickered the whole holidays. To top it all I have broken my ankle and can't walk. They just won't play together and constantly ask me to play. I have been very shouty today as I just want to rest my poor sore ankle.

I sound like a right moany cow! I just don't want to referee fights over playmobil today.

Oh god, I'm a shouty mum and really, really don't want to be (I am the daughter of one and really wanted to break the cycle). My two dds are really pushing my buttons right now: it's whine-demand-bicker-complain from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep. They both shout when they're angry and there's no mystery where they're getting it from.

I'm determined to get better at this. To the extent that I've added myself to the star chart!

Has anyone got any tips? I try to set clear and consistent rules and boundaries, be clear about consequences and follow them through. The older one (6) has a lot of control issues and either ignores me or is downright defiant. The younger one (2) is straightforward but just a bundle of over-enthusiastic energy and very strong-willed. Neither of them are bad kids but I've found the transition from one to two quite tough - it's the having to deal with both at once that seems to tip me over the edge.

I think I just sounded too critical of my children. They're honestly not bad children, and we do have lovely times together. But when I'm stressed and tired (which I am almost constantly - have also just started a new FT job) then the shouting just gets too tempting.

Not that long ago I shouted so loud at my DCs that it's a wonder my next door neighbours didn't hear it. I should add a couple of things here for you to appreciate my volume - my neighbours:-

a) are pretty deaf

and more to the point:-

b) were in Spain at the time

Do you get my drift MNetters?

Another shouty one here. Recovering from major surgery a few weeks back and in constant pain means my tolerance threshold is zero so I get very ratty with my two. Feel bad .

Oh phew. For ages there were no replies and I thought I was the Worst Mum on Mumsnet. Welcome one and all.

Devora loving the adding yourself to the star chart thing! Bit alarmed to hear I might get More Shouty when (8 mo) DS can walk and talk though. Atm it is generally 3 yo DD who winds me up (well, her and gravity, my arch enemy, anyway).

I've been having CBT to help me deal with my anger/shoutiness. Only had one session so far but it's really interesting - thinking about why I have certain attitudes and thus how to counterract them (I think) eg I feel guilty asking DH to look after the DC because in my family childcare was my mum's job, so that's my kind of default position even though I don't believe that it's just my job and don't want to raise our DC that way. I don't think either of my parents were very good at expressing anger (I think my mum was shouty, not sure) and I used to get locked in my room for being angry so no wonder really I'm not very good at it. Anyway, I'm supposed to be keeping a note of angry incidents and then look at the thinking that surrounds them. Unfortunately, the session was a couple of weeks ago and was like some sort of magic balm (well, that and the four day weekend) because I've been very unshouty ever since, until today, so have a bit forgotten what I'm supposed to do when shouty Must reread notes they gave me.

I've been referred via my HV due to anxiety/anger issues.

Hopefully that doesn't make me sound really bad I just hate getting shouty, it makes me feel like I've completely failed, and thought I could probably do with some help with it because I wasn't doing very well by myself.

Loopy :(

Claire and tiddler I feel for you, constant pain does not help. I have a dodgy hip which plays up a lot and it always makes me more grouchy. As does stress and exhaustion - I should really be in bed ...

Dita your post is very scarily familiar. I'm also in therapy for my anger/anxiety issues. I've had CBT in the past. It was great, but I'm just not able to use it to stop my shoutyness atm. For me, I'm just too tired (10mo not sleeping) to focus properly.

Last week I had the worst day in my whole time parenting. I think I woke up shouting and it didn't really stop all day - except when I was crying. And then at the end of the day I realised that DS(4) and DD2(10mo) had raging temperatures. No wonder they weren't on top form. Epic parenting fail.

One thing that helps a bit for me is getting out of the house. Firstly I'm less likely to be a screaming banshee while out, but also the space seems to be good for everyone. I just have to remember that when I'm bad. Plus the crappy weather doesn't help.

Hello there. I'm relieved to see this- I hate the person I turn into when I'm stressed. I think my DD (3yo) is perfectly normal but i'm not dealing very well with stuff like getting out of the house- particularly getting out of the house. I don't get enough sleep and I often feel stressed (redundancy when pregnant, now self employed in a sector under siege, don't like my weight etc). So I shout- and it's pointless. Feel crap after dropping DD off at nursery this morning- and I can't carry on like this- it's exhausting! Hearing others really helps- I know all my friends get a bit grumpy sometimes but confessing to shouting is a bit taboo. I love the star chart idea!

Can I reluctantly join? I have DSs 5.6 and 3.1 and a DD 0.7 and I have been a shouty mum for the second half of the Easter break. A friend I hadn't seen for a while made some comments about DS1s behaviour and I feel like I've been jumping down his throat at the slightest thing ever since. Although 5 years' experience tells me that shouting at him gets neither of us anywhere. I need some new strategies for staying calm.

I'm not the kind of mum I wanted to be, and it's a major source of disappointment and lack of confidence.

How's the CBT working out? I've tried it for PND but not recently. I'm waiting to receive the NLP for Parents book, and I've re-read "How to talk so kids will listen..." which I like, but feel this should come a bit more easily to me, without having to use books.

Sympathy to the rest of you, tomorrow's another day

I am absolutely determined to improve and the children are thrilled to have me on the star chart . All this last week I've been noticing how shouting REALLY doesn't help with the little one, whereas when I get down to her level and talk to her calmly, she in turn calms down. It's not rocket science, but often hard to achieve when I'm coping with two on the school run. For me, the great enemy of good parenting is having more than one to cope with.

For my older child, sadly shouting seems to be the only thing that DOES work sometimes. But I'm just going to have to work harder to find better solutions.

The only thing I can feel good about is that I have never hit the children. I am tempted to about 50 times a day but with my anger stuff, I daren't. I know if I start, I just won't stop.

I am a shouty mum too and I know that usually it's because of other factors stressing me out rather than what the kids are doing at the time, eg worried about being late, upset that I can't control my kids, stressed about work I have to do etc. I see that a few of you have had CBT for anger management, how did you get this? On NHS or private? Did you go to your GP for a referral?

Signing in, total shouty mom here.

For quite awhile (my son is now 2.10) I didn't think being shouty was so bad, it was better than being hitty mom, right?

Then he started to shout back. And I knew exactly where he had learned it.

So I've been trying to be better. And I have been. He spent all day yesterday shouting at me and I kept it together until bath time. Then I shouted back.

And after he was in bed my not so dear at the moment husband said 'He's only 2, do you need to shout at him?' Thanks for the support, darling.

He who claims he had a happy childhood and yet tells tales about his mother chasing him with a hairbrush to beat him with...

Anyway, I have a few chronic pain illnesses and pain definitely makes it worse as does lack of sleep and my son has never been a good sleeper.

I think the star chart is a brilliant idea and will be implementing very very soon!

Can I join please? I'm desperately trying to change the way I parent as I hate shouting at my boys :( I was brought up in a shouty household which wasn't awful but I would like to do things differently. Things got a lot worse when DS2 arrived and had terrible silent reflux which wasn't diagnosed for months. He didn't sleep and screamed almost solidly for over a year and in that time both me and DH got into the habit of losing our patience and shouting. It seems to have become entrenched now as it's our default - bad behaviour from the kids = us shouting. Not good.

I don't think we're at the stage of needing outside help but we would both like to learn some techniques for calming ourselves and coping better - can anyone recommend some CBT-type books? Or some other anger-management-type book?

I do think this is worth a read. I get it out when things are getting on top of me. Some of the examples of 'bad' parenting are a bit extreme, but the methods do work. My eldest is particularly find of signs and diagrams. I once drew him a flow diagram to show how eating dinner could lead to pudding, and it seemed to go in, as I'd he couldn't argue with a written sign like he could with me.

This is the stuff I need to remind myself of - it's just hard to find the energy to make the effort some days...

Excuse stupid iPhone auto-correct...

Thanks Stase. I have just bought a book called 'When your kids push your buttons' so will report back on that

I have to say the star chart is working well so far and I have been making a real effort not to shout. The children love discussing every evening whether I've been good enough to get my star, and whether they've been good enough to get theirs. Their behaviour is definitely improved, making me realise how much of their acting out is probably in response to me

Stase - that book is really good, I've got it too. I find that it is more relevant for older children though? Mine are nearly 2 and 4 1/2 and I use some of the techniques for my older son and he responds well.

Devora - I'm going to order that book from the library today!

Joining up. You know the shouty Sargeant Major at the start of Full Metal Jacket, I could give him a run for his money .

I've given up asking / telling the dc's to do things, it saves time to go to full on shouting. Even then they laugh at me. The neighbours banged on the wall the other week, mind you they only have once small child and 2 parents in the house .

I do think it's due to stress, work, tiredness levels though. When my IBS is bad and I'm either in pain or too scared to eat I'm pretty foul. Would love to get counselling to talk things through but my GP said nothing was available and I can't see how I could fit it in around work .

Gonna have to join you today. They have been driving me up the wall since DS came out of school.

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh oh oh can I join in? I'm another shouter, desperate to break the habit. My mum was a shouter, I hated it and vowed not to do the same when I had children but arrrrggghhhH! They drive me loopy! My two (6&4) have started shouting at each other and I realised they learned it from me. I was reading an AP book called 'Beyond the Sling' - a lot of it is aimed at parents of babies/toddlers but the section on gentle discipline really made me realise I have a lot of room for improvement, but is quite good at giving examples which are easy to use.

I've got that How to talk... book and didn't finish it Will put that on my to-do list!

I can be a shouty mum too, but then sometimes i'm whiney mum. Not sure which i hate more! My mum was shouty, hitty, EA mum. I dont want to be that!