Starve the buggers?

[treedelivery]

Hello

I have 2 dds, age just 3 and 7.5. They are good girls and the eldest especially is spooky well behaved.

The eldest has always had a tiny appetite, probably due to the ongoing chronic constipation. SHe never had an appetite even for chocolate or crisps but with our hard work and lots of wheatabix she maintained her growth. She continues to be treated with a mixture of laxatives. As an older child she is putting on more weight as she has begun eating pizza and chocolate.

The youngest had a crap appetite from the get go, tried things as a weaning baby but soon went on the refusal. She is going the way of her sister with constipation, witholding and she is developing the same mega colon constipation.

Now I am at the stage where the girls diet is shrinking to stupid levels.

The eldest: will try things as I can manipulate and guilt her in to it. Which is no way to parent and a shit way to feel as a child. SHe doesn't enjoy new foods and is stuck with her few staples. Not toooooo bad but depressing in it's self as I love cooking and I know a fair bit about nutrition.

The youngest, Exists on noodles, ham sarnies and occasional strawberries.

WWYD? I can't go one worrying about it all, I'll go mad! Plus it does not make for a happy childhood. Shall I jsut starve them so they eat normal healthy food, or go along with it, or some other method?

The whole thing makes me feel like a failure.

Are you seeing a nutritionist? What support are you getting with all this? And apart from the constipation, how is their health - do they fight off colds etc easily enough?

It must be incredibly distressing for you - but from your post you're clearly doing everything you possibly can, and in the good mother stakes there's just no way you're a failure.

Don't know if this will help you but my DB lived until he was a teenager on white bread, cheese and tomato ketchup. Our mum was nearly demented but he grew up fine and since he went to uni has broadened his diet considerably, much to mum's disgust!

Thank you Hassled. I can't help feeling that if you have two children who can't poo and won't any veg except carrots - well then you aren't doing so great. It drains me some days, a constant battle. I do try really really hard not to let them see my stress although the eldest is pretty savvy.

The eldest has atopic dermatitis and isn't very resiliant. Although as her appetite for crap & sweets has increased she has got tougher, as she has built up a bit. The youngest is invinsible [bugrin]

The eldest had a dietician when she was 4 ish. The top tips were to try smoothies and not to boil veggies too much. I haven't really gone back as I wasn't sure it was helpful tbh. She sees a paed in a constipation clinic every 6 months or so - the message being to carry on with the meds.

How do I get them to eat and enjoy food?

Dont I know it FirstLastEverything. The eldest sees the paed in a specialist clinic and we have a continence nurse. The message is to just wait it out. It will be years before she is 'well' int his respect.

Tranquilidade - that is reassuring. If either of them grow up to have exciting appetites I shall flog them!

Thanks I appreciate the replies and the sympathy. I honestly feel like shite. Am thinking of giving all my kids nutrition books and organic cookbooks etc away. Bearing in mind they had cheese and tomato pizza {the chicken and pepper one was rejected} and 3 forks of noodles for dinner.

You might have been describing me and my brother (we are now 38 and 36...!). We survived on fried rice, noodles, eggs, ham. Refused veg. Fruit was v limited. Very very fussy. To the point that now that I'm a parent I am thankful that my kids so far aren't anything like what I was in terms of diet.

We wouldn't eat much chicken or fish of anything remotely healthy. My grandmother (who mostly brought us up) was a brilliant cook. And we drove her up the wall.

I also had dermatitis or excema type things. Am asthmatic (not related to diet I don't think!!). We grew up and now eat most things. If anything im pretty flexible now. am also a size 8. And I cook my grandmother's recipes for the kids...!

Just wanted to say not to worry.

DONT blame yourself. I felt like a crap mum for 10 yrs with my DD's diet and constipation (vicious cycle if ever there was one) i.e. do you give fibre to help their bowels but fail to get much protein/fats in or vice versa- ? pile in the cheese/eggs to help em grow and make the constipation worse. If another well meaning HV had said "have you tried orange juice?" I would have needed holding back...
Fast forward 10 years and my DS is born- same methods of milk feeding (EBF) and puree weaning etc etc- but wadda you know- he eats everything and anything!! Fantastic diet pleanty of it and poos twice a day minimum. So DONT BLAME YOURSELF I've done the same twice and got completely different outcomes.
My DD is 12 now and although still very skinny is (food wise) much better- constipation took until mid primary school to get sorted and the variety of foods eaten is pretty good not- quantity is still small compared to other pre teens but healthy portions usually managed with minimal cajolling.
my advice would be just grit your teeth and do your best- I found lots of exercise is helpful for boosting appetite. good luck.xx

Hi. Have you considered that weetabix might be causing the problem?
I had the same problem with my DC - constipation and poor appetite.
Two of my three become concreted up with weetabix inspite of eating fruit and drinking water. In fact a high wheat diet does not agree with them.
Have you seen what happens to weetabix if you leave it in a bowl?
It is like cement.
I find porridge mixed with fruit puree works really well and they like it as it is sweet.
They love weetabix so we limit it to weekends and if I am too lazy to make porridge in the holidays the constipation returns as they help themselves to weetabix.
Chocolate, cheese and yoghurt has worked for us to maintain weight and quite often use them to bribe DC to eat a little of their meal.

Yes, I have blamed weetabix for the first childs constipation - I do think she was totally bunged up on it. I need to look up readybrek, they love that stuff.

Well, eldest does. Youngest has.....noodles for breakfast.

I wonder if you can get and if she'd eat some other noodles, made from something else.

Thank you for the votes of confidence. It's just so boring and draining.

Although I was lying in bed and thinking if eldest lived on cheese and tomato pizza that would't be the worst thing in the world. If I make batches of good quality tomato sauce then, with the cheese, it isn't such a bad meal really. [buhmm]

We had a conversation about this in our house yesterday. We've fallen into bad habits. Too much sugar, too much carbs, not enough fresh fruit/veg. DD (4yo) will look at something and say 'that's disgusting'. Her 2yo brother will try and copy her.

We have got this bad as 2yo did have a wheat/dairy intolerance. Everyday meals were a logistical nightmare, and so expensive. He grew out of it (thank goodness) and we got lazy "hoorah we can all have pizza together" Anyway, it didn't take long for the fussiness to get started. I served tomato soup last night (homemeade). DH said it might have a strange texture which is why they were fussing about it. I said they'd had it too good for too long. They'd had easter choc during the day, they knew if they held out they'd likely get something later. I said to DH there is nothing wrong with the food that is being served. A hungry child wouldn't be so fussy. Our DCs probably don't know what really being hungry feels like.

So - we decided yesterday that Meals will be 3 times a day, take it or leave it. No more squash. They can have 1 snack between meals (fruit/cheese/veg sticks). We're also cutting back on bread in the house... Luckily I think our 2 are young enough to just get on with it.

I'm saying this as I completely sympathise. I have no advice, but it's so wearing isn't it? It gets to the point where you're trying to sneak veg into them without them noticing.

I really hope you find a way forward.

Can my kids come and live with you for your boot camp experiment? [bugrin]

I tried that, DH even bought me Hugh Fernly-whatsits Veg everyday book. You should have seen their faces when I gave them spinach soufle and cous-cous for dinner. Even though dd1 pretty much made the soufle on her own - she wouldn't eat it.

Yes. It saps the life out of you. I imagined chorizo eating fresh fish lovers. What I have are two children in the shape of MDs happy meals.

BTW we have same story in common as dd2 was dairy intolerant as is growing out of it, roughly as dd1 grew into an appetite. Hence we got used to feeling that anyfood was just a wonderful great thing.

Maybe I should make a list of positives.

1. Both girls will eat and enjoy their nana's chilli. It is made from a sachet and probably full of salt, but it is food. They will even have wholemeal tortilla wraps if the wind is right.

2. Both will eat Rachels greek style honey yogurt. Ok so it is probably a fast route to obesity, it is also pro biotic and free from added shite.

3. DD1 has recently condesended to eat an occasional ham sandwich and dd2 does actually like them.

4. DD2 will eat grapes and strawberries if the stars are right.

5. DD1 loves a bagel as a snack. Could be worse.

Well my boot camp was great until we did an Easter Egg hunt

To be fair - I said they could have one piece, and no to squash later on. They survived!

DD did eat her tea (and her brother's). It wasn't anything wildly complicated but it was less stressful. DS was tired (missed the nap), so it wasn't a huge deal.

I think it's great to see the positives. If yours like the texture and taste of chilli then do you think that they will tolerate more than they're letting on?

Chilli is an unusual foodstuff - I think it shows quite a sophisticated pallette .

I remember seeing a programme about this kind of very restricted eating on the BBC and, if I remember rightly, the expert on there recommended making them the meals they liked, so ham sandwiches, noodles or whatever, but insisting they have one spoonful of something new first. After that, they can crack on and have noodles for every meal if they so choose. After a while, it was either two spoonfuls, or two different foods, I can't remember which. It worked really well on the girl on the programme who only ate chocolate and crisps for every meal. See, yours aren't that bad [bgrin]

I meant [bugrin]

Well, possibly if it wasn't Crosse and Blackwell [bugrin]

I'm all for chocolate and sweets and crisps. I really am. God my happiest child memories are the sheer delight of choosing penny sweets.

Good news dd ate her tea. We should enjoy our small victories more. Mine ate cheapo ready made macaroni cheese (if I make it from scratch I care and am sad if it isn't eaten, if it's a 75p one from Sains I don't care and haven't the emotional investment in it!!). DD2 shocked us all by having some toaast and scrambled eggs [bushock]

I might have a Dominos to celebrate [bugrin]

YY to the BBC programme. It was really good. That showed really extreme examples, and yet they did improve with time and the right input.

I think IIRC the girl who was about 12 looked really well on chocolate and toast. She wasn't even lacking in any vitamins/minerals. She just got to the age where she was embarrassed about it (I think).

See OP - from your last post things are looking up already!

So what do I do then - just make them eat a spoon of whatever before their regular dinner?
The 7yo might buy it, the 3yo would strop off and do without. This is probably a good time to mention she wakes at least once a night for a bottle of milk [bublush]

Thanks for al the support. I just ate wholewheat giant cous-cous salad. DD1 ran off and hid in the airing cupboard when I suggested she try it. [bugrin]

Treedelivery - homemade cheese and tomato pizza can hide a multitude of goodness, blitz up whatever vegetables you like, spinach, carrots, brocoli, sweet potato and even leeks and blend to a puree, add to the tomato sauce (it has to be really tomato-y and spread liberally!! If they will tolerate it, make some pumpkin and butternut squash bread dough and cook extra large bread rolls. Slice in half,spread veg\tomato sauce on add cheese and grill! Not a bad meal at all :)

I share your pain, having 3 picky picky eaters. 2 who won't eat anything they don't like the look of (and my eldest is 18 so I have had tinme to perfect the hidden veg!) and one who will eat anything but only 3 bites of it!(She's 4) My fourth is a dream and eats anything and everything but he's only 10 months :)

Are you ready to get rid of the night time milk? I know it'll be dreadfully upsetting for everyone for a few days but hopefully very short-lived drama! AFAIK, it really was just one spoonful of something different and not too strongly flavoured. You can't give them vindaloo, no matter how annoying they've been [bugrin]

Oh night time waking? That's gotta hurt.

Tough love time prescribed here!

She wakes every 2-3 hrs.

This is not how it looked in the Junior mother and baby mag I read all those years ago!!!

Wow - you must be shattered. If I was awake that frequently, they'd be on microwave meals only!

My DH is amazing and does a good 2/3rds if it. She settles better with him. Thank God.

They don't sleep, eat or poo. All life essentials. Something has gone fundamentally wrong with the parenting in this house.