Seriously considering jacking in the PhD and fed up with department

[NomNomNom]

Where do I start ...

Basically, I did well in the first yr of my PhD, then had a baby, took a yr off and came back part-time. Not funded.

Very small department, which hosts a conference every other year. Since the last conference there's been a 3-year gap as there were no new PhD students, and everyone apart from me had already organised one. I thought about suggesting that we have one anyway, as I was keen to get the experience, but ended up not brinig it up with my supervisor.

Now I have just heard that my supervisor has asked the 2 new PhD students (literally just started) to organise the next conference. An older (about to finish) student suggested asking me to monitor the email account - really??! So I could be sort-of-involved.

I am quite disappointing as I have been working recently to show my supervisor that I can take part in things, eg attending other conferences to give presentations etc.

I feel quite excluded, and hurt that my supervisor could exclude me to such an extent. We are only 3 PhD students, plus 3 who are submitting and have already organised a conference.

The conference committee traditionally consists of 2 people, so while I will of course say I'd be happy to do emails ad anything else that I can do, this will make me feel like I'm imposing when everyone thinks I'm rubbish and unreliable (my supervisor clearly thinks this).

A large part of my motivation for doing the PhD comes from wanting to work with my supervisor, so this has just completely destroyed my trust in her. I was planning to go to a very expensive (lots of travel) conference later this year, and now I really don't want to bother as I'd much rather spend the money on a trip to my home country (can't afford both).

AIBU to want to throw my toys out of the pram and quit my PhD?

I am disappointed , although I've clearly been disappointing my supervisor.

Hi there
I can see why you are upset but think this may be just one of those PhD emotional rollercoaster moments. Perhaps your supervisor would rather you spent your time on your research and thesis as you are further on and is mindful that you are registered part time now and have other commitments? Don't give up, it is really hard but you will regret giving up over this.
Good luck!

Can you have a low key chat with her about her rationale?

It's probably something as simple as dances suggested, although she may just have forgotten you weren't in on the last one, what with the year out and whatnot...

Is this the only reason you think you're disappointing her?

Time for an open chat about how you are getting on? Not subject based, per se, but a wider 'how are things' discussion?

You're not bu to think about throwing your toys out of the cot, but probably ought to double check your initial impressions before you make a life altering decision...

Thanks. I am supposed to meet her about something else next week anyway, so hopefully I can have a quick chat with her about this too.

I think she might be disappointed because I make progress slowly compared to the others and I haven't presented anything for several years. Plus I can't get involved in the teaching side of things because the payment is irregular with a big break over the summer, so it would just be too unstable for me. And I can't go to research seminars because of child care issues (they take place after nursery closes but before DD's dad finishes work). So basically I'm just rubbish.

Organising conferences is a complete waste of time which is why lecturers will do anything to pass it on to students! You are lucky not to have to do this! Concentrate on skills that will help you later on in the job market (I am assuming you will be after an academic job?) like publishing, finishing your PhD, giving presentations at conferences and boosting your teaching CV.

I think your supervisor did you a favour not a diservice!

Thanks for that perspective, that makes me feel a bit better.

However, I'm not so good or advanced that not doing the conference would make sense. And it would give me those 'transferable skills' that everyone is so keen on!

So basically I still don't understand my supervisor's standpoint.

Might be worth bringing it up with her directly, but I can assure you that orgnanising the conference will be exceptionally dull and exceptionally time consuming.

I don't know what your PhD is on or your career plans, but PhDs usually lead to either academic jobs or very specific careers, neither of which needs to demonstrate transferable skills. At this level the PhD itself (plus publications and teaching) is evidence of the actual skills needed for these jobs, so transfering skills doesn't really come into it.

If you're still interested in organising a conference just go the whole hog and get funding for one which you can then organise. There are numerous sources of funding for small conferences and it will give you some insight into applying for funding (a very useful skill for academic and other careers).

Sorry, forgot to add, if you are falling behind with the actual thesis work, catching up should be your first priority and the conference organising would only take up valuable time - could this be what your supervisor had at the back of her mind?

Probably! I just usually do better when I'm busy and involved with something PhD-related, so doing the conference would spur me I think.

Thanks for the conference funding idea, that's really helpful!

Your Uni may have a subscription to

www.researchresearch.com

which links to a lot of funding opportunities.

Also worth looking up the AHRC/ESRC websites directly or any bodies that fund specifically in your subject area.

Definitely agree that organising a conference is a waste of yoru time. While doing my PhD I focussed on getting teaching experience under my belt and presenting plenty of conference papers.

I'm coming round to that point of view, it's just slightly galling that out of the 14 PhD students in the last 6 years or so 11 will have organised this conference, and I'm one of the 3 who won't have had the chance. And I know the other 2 just didn't want to do it.

Anyway, I have told people I'm happy to do any tasks they want to throw at me and I'd also be happy to be involved properly. They seemed pleased, but have arranged a meeting with our supervisor in a couple of weeks at a time which I explicitly said I wouldn't be able to do. Oh well!

Organising a conference is dull, repetitive admin and though it does demonstrate some commitment and transferable skills, nothing you couldn't get elsewhere (like some voluntary work, organising the summer fair at nursery etc). TBH, your supervisor probably felt you wouldn't have time and she'd spare you the burden! I've been helping (in a small way) to organise a conference happening in my dept this month, and the main person organising it has had a huge headache with it all and basically not done any work on her thesis for 2 months. It definitely is not worth that sacrifice in terms of the brownie points on your CV.

I do feel your pain about being out of the loop though. We have zillions of PhDs in my department and I am hardly ever able to go to social events/seminars because of the childcare and logistics, and there are some first years whose names I don't even know. I do feel that I'm missing out on some of the PhD experience. But attending conferences on the other hand is great for feeling more connected to the wider research community, so do try and prioritise getting out to those.

If I could briefly revive this thread for some more advice please... I'd be very grateful!

So... since I posted the above situation (people had arranged a meeting with supervisor which I couldn't attend), they have arranged another 2 meetings at times that I can't do because of nursery timings. I had told them the exact times I could make in advance.

They just had the second meeting today. We met last week without our supervisor, and they weren't able to tell me the exact day/time of supervisor's meeting as they 'couldn't remember', but 'thought' it was today at a time I wouldn't be able to make. For this meeting our supervisor had given them a number of available times/days, and they picked one that suited them and didn't give me any choice.

I had asked them to send me an email with the outcomes of the meeting, but all they sent me was an email saying they just had a meeting and that the two of them (PhD students) would 'make some notes' (whatever that means), and then the three of us could meet at some point. Apparently my supervisor was pleased to have me on board. But, in my opinion, if I am supposed to be properly involved, then surely it would have been nice to have put actual details about the meeting in the email they sent me? And why do they need to make notes before speaking to me about it?

They've already chosen a time for the next supervisor meeting, again a time which I have made clear I wouldn't be able to attend. However, the person who seems to have taken the role of leader in all this won't be able to attend that meeting, so perhaps it's not important for all three of us to be at every meeting? I thought it was.

I sent them specific times that were possible for me a little while ago, so they have it in writing. They have now chosen to exclude me three times, and we haven't even really started organising anything.

If you have managed to find your way through all those various meetings... do you think I should just give up now and say I won't be involved in the conference after all? If it's already causing me this much angst before it gets started, then it's too much hassle I think.

I know I can't always expect people to dance to my childcare tune, but if this was a job, this would be discrimination.

I would give up on it. I never organised any conferences when doing my PhD and it never held me back in my academic career. It's far more important to get some lecturing and peer reviewed papers under your belt, if you can. Most importnatly, just get on with completing your PhD.

Are these meetings about conferences? If yes then the only thing worse than conference organising is conference organising by committee - the ultimate waste of time! If a conference needs to be organising then let one person do it and be done with it, it's hardly rocket science. If you involve more people it's an even greater nightmare of useless bureaucracy.

I've said this before and will repeat it: forget about the conferences! Finish your PhD, publish papers and get some experience teaching.

Yes, these meetings are about things like which speakers to invite, which topic to choose etc. This conference is traditionally organised by at least 2 people. I think I will leave them to it!

Do not jack in your PhD, however tempting it may seem at the time. I say this as someone who contemplated it a million times over but I'm so grateful I didn't now - the feeling of achievement when you get to the top of that mountain is simply epic (to quote irritating advert). Plus it's awesome when you receive bank card that say 'Dr' on them

The conference doesn't really matter in the long run and neither does your frustration towards your supervisor (although admittedly it does hurt at the time and is hard to ignore). I'd recommend getting your head down and finishing the damn thing. If I can do it (many years part-time with several false starts) then anyone can!

Many years part-time with several false starts sounds like me! Imagining the feeling when it's all handed in is what keeps me going.

Now I just need to find a way of bowing out of the conference gracefully without looking like a flake to my supervisor...

Just say that as you can't make most of the meetings it would probably be for the best if you withdrew

They'd probably just say they'd choose a better time for the next meeting and then keep forgetting. Because I'm so annoyed about this there's also a risk it might come across as passive-aggressive, which would look good at all.

Could you simply lay cards on the table and say 'Actually, I think it would be better if I focus on my write-up; sorry about that'?

People appreciate clear statements of intent more than we realise, even if they do initially bitch about them :)

Yes, I agree with Herrena, that's a good plan and one that everyone would understand

That might be a good idea and possibly make me look slightly responsible. Although I have no more pressure to write up now than I did a couple of weeks ago when I asked to be involved in the conference. Perhaps I'll be 'really busy' doing something else.

surely you could say that you've been reflecting on your workload and realised that it's going to be difficult to fit it all in so it would be sensible to concentrate on your thesis?