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Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Q&A with Sharon Hodgson, Shadow Minister for Children and Families -ANSWERS BACK

109 replies

RachelMumsnet · 19/03/2012 17:15

This week we're inviting you to send in questions to Sharon Hodgson. Sharon is the Labour Member of Parliament for Washington and Sunderland West, and Shadow Minister for Children and Families.

As Shadow Education Minister and parent of a child with severe dyslexia, Sharon has been asked to review the Labour Party's policies on Special Educational Needs this year.

Sharon is keen to hear stories of people with experience of the special needs system, whether that's young people, their parents or carers, or the professionals who work with them. Full details of the review are available at j.mp/SENreview

Please post your story or suggestion to improve SEN provision and policy and Sharon will then respond. Using ideas to help inform new SEN policies.

Send in your questions to Sharon before the end of Friday 23rd March and we'll be linking to her answers w/c 2nd April.

OP posts:
WordsAreNoUseAtAll · 19/03/2012 20:30

Excellent :-)

LeninGrad · 20/03/2012 12:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Voidka · 20/03/2012 13:56

Marking my place while I think of my question.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

devientenigma · 20/03/2012 14:35

HI Sharon, I am in the position where my special needs statemented child has been at home for over 2 year. Home tutored an hour a day, 4 days per week by the LA as no one is in agreement with how he should be educated. The whole system around my son seems corrupt and there is a load of conflict and critisism around him. The latest being the pead from his registered special school has left and doesn't want to take him with him and the new pead won't accept him. Since he is still registered at the school the LA say he should see the new pead, however in the meantime my son is being let down by the system that is supposed to support and encourage him as well as encompass the childrens charter, and EDCM.
I could go on and on about how the system doesn't work but for my lad and me, how many more years will we be in the position with no one even listening!!!
Every is discussing the future of disabled/special needs children following the BBC programme letting go, however my son doesn't have a childhood never mind an adulthood and it is the system allowing that!!

LeninGrad · 20/03/2012 15:02

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeninGrad · 20/03/2012 15:07

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KalSkirata · 20/03/2012 15:24

What did Labour do when they were in power apart fro refuse to answer emails on this very topic?
My dd is in mainstream school despite her high and complex SEN needs (she has severe cerebral palsy) and everything is and always has been a constant battle. She is 8 so its not just down to the current Govt. How can it stop being a battle?

SanctiMoanyArse · 20/03/2012 15:40

Are you aware hoe the choices seem to shrink at age 11 for children with SN?

We have the choice of sending our autistic child to a school with little support and hundreds more children than it can handle, a SN Unit with no academic provision- he is autistic but has areas of ability.

There is a school for children with HFA who will meet with us but our elder ASD son already attends and he presents a real risk of violence for ds3; more troubling in a wider nature, the school only takes in a whole 2 students a year.

I will also mention that I am in the final stages on a part time MA in Autism and I am incredibly frustrated how few opportunities there are to actually work in the field compared to actual children needing help. With 2 children diagnosed with autism, one being assessed for ADD and one for AD (already has a dx of speech and language delay) plus the MA I would consider myself skilled in my field yet there isn't even anything to apply for. When I then read stories like that above written by DevientEnigma I am, somewhat understandably I feel, incredibly saddened. there isn't even any help for me to set up a social enterprise in the field. Given that carers like me will be made to return to work or do workfare in October 2013, that is a huge worry. From wider perspective on SN (remembering that family stress filetrs to the children) there is a real neglect of working issues for children with SN and their carers: childcare funding cut off at 12- pretty useless for children getting MR care whose parents are required to work! A lack of childcare suitable for children with SN, especially if those children attend mainstream provision. A lack of support from Social Services- we, as a family with 4 children with SN, had our file closed and support pulled last year.....

The system is in a mess. I do believe current policy is going to make things even worse, but it was never much cop.

SanctiMoanyArse · 20/03/2012 15:43

Oh and also (sorry!) as a side comment I believe it should be required that all SENCOs have a qualification in the field to certify that they have a basic knowledge. there are of course a great many wonderful ones, but also some truly appalling ones that do not seem to care that poor provision can steal a child's future independence.

Teaching qualifications have very little SN content, and if a TA has to take a qualification to be a support worker, then a SENCO should certainly have something in place in the form of registration and training to show they are competent and care about the work they do.

Triggles · 20/03/2012 16:57

Our family is lucky. We have a lovely school that has gone well out of their way to make sure that our son is safe and educated and supported appropriately. They (senco, teachers, TAs, headteacher, SALT, teaching advisory service) involve us as parents fully in all meetings and discussions, listening to our input and working WITH us. Our paediatrician and OT are also brilliant, making time to come to school meetings and do everything in their power to help out when we run across an obstacle in our son's care.

I have been told REPEATEDLY by numerous people how lucky we are that these people are so proactive and do so much to help our son. WHY?? Shouldn't this type of thing be the norm? How sad that good competent assistance and support is seen as extraordinary! What does it say about our society when people have to fight and fight just for basic needs and education for their child?

I do think, however, that there should be more "family based" needs met in families that include a person with disabilities or SEN. Navigating our way through the school system, statements, DLA and the like has not been easy. It has caused incredible stress in our family, which literally put my husband at the breaking point. It took us over 18 months to get him counselling - and even that is not through the NHS, as they literally wrote him off, after saying he definitely needed counselling. We finally went through a private charity, where we pay a small fee for each counselling session - even that took months to arrange! Depression and stress is so high for families like ours (with children with SNs), it would be beneficial to find some way to streamline counselling services and assistance for parents or other immediate family members. Can this be done? After all, paying for counselling is a lot less expensive than paying for hospitalisation when a carer has a complete breakdown as well as paying for care for the child they were caring for!

SanctiMoanyArse · 20/03/2012 17:02

Very well said Triggles

Funnily enough the business model I was looking at was related but there was no help to fund the website I needed.

Ridiculously sad :(

silverfrog · 20/03/2012 18:11

oh boy, where to start?

why does it take so long to assess the needs of a child? the statemetnign process shoud take 6 months, but rarely does due to LA procrastination. it took us nearly 3 years for dd1's statement. meanwhile, she was suppposed to start school without adequate prvision in place - starting off the whole of her educational life on the wrong foot.

why, once a statement is in place, are LAs not accountable? how can so many just ignore the law, and refuse to provide what is defined in the statement?

also, how can so many LAs claim that 'statements are being phased out', without even assessing the needs of the child?

why insist on inclusion for all, when it is so patently obvious that 'inclusion' in most cases is a form of exclusion? and when so many schools are not set up for inclusion, why insist it shoudl take place?

why is a statement not transferable from LA to LA? after all, the needs of the child are unlikely to have changed just because of a move 2/5/10 miles down the road... we are stuck in our LA 9where we dont want to live, incidentally, but ended up here chasing decent provision fro dd1) because we would be so unlikely to 'win' (even that phrase grates - it should not be about winning, but about getting appropriate provision for a child's needs) the same provision again if we move out of county.

all of this was the same under the LAbour government too, so please no waffle about how shocked you are that Cameron is turnign his back on disabled children, or similar.

SanctiMoanyArse · 20/03/2012 18:32

Silverfrog's point about LAs is a good one.

I live at the crossroads between 3 LAs; this means if we move more than 200 metres in all but one direction, the boys cease to be eligible for their hard-won SN placements.

That's surely ridiculous?

silverfrog · 20/03/2012 18:36

snap.

we live on the border of 2 LAs. dd1 goes to school in a third LA.

currently trying to buy a house, and the hoops we have to jump through to ensure we stay the right side of the line, so as not to jeopardise her statement are ridiculous (not to mention the fact that we could actually afford several houses in neighbouring LA, but are struggling ot find anything in our LA...)

if dd1 needs the provision in her statement (which she does), then she needs it, regardless of where we live.

appropriatelyemployed · 20/03/2012 19:36

I'm appalled by:

(i) the disinformation by LA to parents and schools e.g. 'your child won't get a statement because he's not 3 years behind' or to schools 'all ASD children are high incidence and don't need statements'. Policies (often unlawful blanket policies) have taken the place of the application of and respect for the law

(ii) the lack of accountability of local authorities. Senior managers who make the money decisions hide behind frontline staff who deal with parents and have no authority to make decisions. Those who do make decisions consistently refuse to explain their decision-making in respect of statutory assessments and statementing decisions. This is largely because their decisions may be unlawful as they are based on financial reasons (or a 'let's see how little we can get away with' approach' rather than the needs of the child

(iii) the use of SEN Panels to hide decision-making. These opaque processes mean decisions are not recordable and minutes are generally not kept. Parents don't know who has made the decision or why

(iv)the constant game-playing e.g. refuse a statutory assessment, forcing parents to appeal, issue statement at lowest possible hours/provision, forcing parents to appeal etc etc

(v) the lack of independence in assessments. LAs use Ed Psychs employed by them who are all told not to quantify and specify hours or setting (I challenge you to find one LA whose EPs routinely indicate the number of hours support they feel a child needs). NHS practitioners are often little better. Speech and language therapists are frequently tied into service level agreements with the LA to provide a particular type of provision e..g indirect therapy. They treat the LA and not the child as the patient

(vi) information sharing BEHIND parents' backs and without consent

(vii) the very low level of knowledge on the part of head teachers regarding SEN Law

(viii) the existence of a clear two-tier system in which those who do not have the means to obtain objective, independent reports are very unlikely to get a fair deal for the child

(ix) the complete disregard for the law in the arrangement of statementing provision. This should happen the moment the statement is issued. It does not and LAs don't even bother to explain themselves

(x) This is compounded by the complete lack of effective oversight by the LGO who consistently sides with LAs breaking the law on arranging provision

(xi) the failure to appreciate and respect duties under the Equality Act

......I could go on and on and on

ouryve · 20/03/2012 20:01

I have similar concerns to Sanctimoanyarse regarding education for my eldest son from year 11 onwards. He has ASD and ADHD and is extremely bright. He is currently reasonably well supported in a caring small local primary school and we have had little difficulty with obtaining suitable statements for him, since our LEA is a rare one which is quite pro-active in this respect. Even with this support, he is struggling and often needs time off school because he simply can not cope with the demands of school routine.

The story changes once he finishes year 6, though. Unless he changes radically, there's no way he will ever cope with the hubbub, constant change and lack of continuity and support in a mainstream secondary school. His CAMHS psychiatrist has admitted to us that there is no suitable provision for him in the county. Most special schools around here only offer a vocational education, which is completely unsuitable for him. He has sensory and behavioural difficulties (usually arising from his needs not being met in some way) but he does not have learning difficulties.

By chance I found out about a private school which caters for boys just like him, but it's 40 minutes away and he would have to go residential - I think that arrangement could actually be good for him, but I am 99.9% sure I will have a fight with the LA on my hands if, when the time comes, we decide it really is the place for him. This is a fight parents like us should not have to be fighting. A school like this could be the difference between our troubled 8 year old becoming a well adjusted highly educated adult, possibly a higher rate taxpayer and a troubled young man with no qualifications, probably constantly in trouble and in and out of mental health institutions. I know which is cheaper in the long run.

My son is far from alone and it's more than short sighted that there is such a dire lack of provision for children like him, with "high functioning" ASD. Just because these children are bright and even articulate, it doesn't mean that they don't have needs. An education system which works should allow all children to meet their potential and become independent, functioning adults.

ouryve · 20/03/2012 20:01

That's from year 7, onwards - age 11. Wish I could edit. Blush

KalSkirata · 20/03/2012 20:02

we call 'disinformation' lying.
Our LA told us no child got more than 12 hours a year SLT. After asking around I met kids like dd (no speech and severe CP) getting packages of 100 hours a year.
How can parents stop LA's doing this. Children are being failed by lack of early intervention, correct therapy and support packages that are inadequate.

TheLightPassenger · 20/03/2012 20:27

agree with Kal. Even in the Labour years, pre-cuts,IME services/NHS therapies for children with SN were a real cinderella area, with lip service being paid to the importance of early intervention. I first was concerned about my child at 2.3. He didn't get seen by a paediatrician for another 2 years, a combination of being fobbed off and stuck on waiting lists.

Similarly to previous posters, I am terrified, 3.5 years in advance, of my child with mild SN going to mainstream secondary.He is at a small, caring primary where he is flourishing without any extra support (he only has a v wishy washy, old diagnosis of language delay with autistic traits).

SanctiMoanyArse · 20/03/2012 20:46

I don't understand the l;ack of focus on early intervention.

if you put funding in at an early stage (and that would IMO include children at risk of developmental delays and SN, many of whom can be identified- eg children with disabled siblings, born prematurely etc)-you can save a fortune longer term through dependency. I do wonder if a big problem is how the budgets are held- children's services, education, adult services- all fighting to minimise expenditure from their own pot at the potential but easily foreseeable cost of a person's long term life chances.

Whereas if it came from a single source wouldn't it be possible that the most cost effective forms of intervention- early and intensive- would be given in preference to long term support and thereby everyone become a winner?

Can I also put my own personal distaste towards independent budgets; I know many like them and they should be an option, but with 4 children needing very different types and levels of help, the last thing I need is to have that to manage as well. I categorically cannot take on managing the boy's funding AND working AND care for all of them in the very different ways they will need. My DH isn't very strong health wise (again in many ways a reaction to the strains of caring- I do not recommend anyone to try working 5 years of nights with shouty ASD children downstairs!)- and I am managing to keep our heads above water but only just.

moosemama · 20/03/2012 21:55

Another parent here who is honestly terrified of secondary school transition. My ds has ASD, is achieving very well academically, but needs a lot of support around social, emotional, communication and organisational skills as well as suffering from severe anxiety.

He is in year 5 and currently well supported - after years of fighting - within a good primary school with some truly incredible teachers. We are just fighting to get him a statement and have been told at every turn, by every professional, that he will not cope/survive in mainstream secondary school without a great deal of additional support. Yet, there is no alternative provision for children like him.

All the special schools in our area focus on life skills rather than qualifications and not one of the special schools OR additionally resourced units is available to children who have a high functioning ASD.

My ds is quite capable of achieving excellent qualifications and going on to be a productive member of society, paying his taxes, making a contribution to society etc - exactly what we keep being told we should be enabling all children - including those with disabilities and/or additional needs to do.

My question is, how are we supposed to help our child to become that productive, tax paying, contributing member of society, when there simply is nowhere he can go to gain the necessary qualification that will get him a job in the future?

If he did by some miracle manage to secure a place at a local SN school, he would come out of it with little or no qualifications. If he goes to mainstream secondary school, with the current lack of ringfenced funding, quantified and specified provision and fundamental lack of consistent support he will end up with mental health issues on top of his ASD and most likely end up leaving before he is 16 - again with no meaningful qualifications.

Our only option seems to be home-schooling him and tutoring him through the qualifications ourselves, but he doesn't want this - he wants to be like other children, go to school, have friends and do all the things other boys his age do. He needs to do this not only for his own self-esteem, but also in order to continue learning appropriate social skills etc, which of course will also be a vital component of his future employability and ability to contribute to society.

It seems that recently we are continually being told that having a disability is not an exuse not to work - whilst at the same time effectively being told that the government's commitment to educating the children of this country, apparently does not extend to a responsiblity to helping those children with disabilities to fulfil their potential, by providing them with the education and qualifications they will need to gain employment.

Its like telling someone to walk forwards and then either pulling the rug out from under their feet or slamming a door in front of them as they take their first step.

karenmumof3 · 20/03/2012 22:00

Hello I have a son with select mutism and don't believe that schools and health authorities take it as a serious disability is there anything that can be done to bring this more in to focus,? As this disability affects my son and the families life daily not just educational which is suffering as a result of it but socially he is being left behind by friends and is isolated in family occasions as he is unable to communicate in front of non immediate family. He is only 6 and has never spoken in school in 3 yrs. except to me in a room on our own.

My son also has been through Camhs services and given the statement of having large areas that fall in to a sensory processing disorder. However in this country we do not as yet have this in the medical dictionary as there do in the U.S and other countries therefore Schools and other agencies don't have to offer help or are given funding to spare as it's not a different diagnosis but if you met my son and the other parents of children with this disorder you would be fully aware of the difficulties it can cause and the help that is needed especially within schools to enable them to get the best education they can. I have dyslexia however where I lived as a child the county council didn't believe dyslexia was really in the 1980's early 90's so I struggled through school without help, one or two teachers knew I had problems and helped others said I was lazy. I don't want this to happen to my son, or other children who have a sensory processing disorder but don't have an 'official' diagnosis for support and help. Is they anyway we can push SPD to be added to the list of 'official' disabilities because believe me it is very much real.

Thank you for you time I hope you can help some of the people on here if not my family at least it's highlighted the issues of select mutism and sensory processing disorder, (and I hope it's readable :) )
www.smira.org.uk/ select mutism link for information great support group
and sensory processing disorder information website:
www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/

AgnesDiPesto · 20/03/2012 22:59

How can we make early intervention happen, well early?

What about a central funded system or minimum guarantee of specialist support? Leaving it up to LAs is not working. No LA can afford to develop really good SN provision. No LA is going to fund say ABA (autism specific) home packages. If they did we would all move there. It has to come from national government and with serious money attached. LAs can't afford to fund high quality early intervention when they are picking up the tab for lots of adults who have already been failed. We need some national programme to fund pre school & school age intervention, at least until this starts to bear fruit in lower benefits and care bills when those children grow up.

How can LA's be made to follow the rules in the SEN system ?
Do you think it is time for sanctions against LAs for obvious abuse of the system e.g. using the wait for a tribunal as a way of delaying provision / saving money? In my case the LA SEN officers went against their own professionals and imposed a cheap mainstream provision instead of a specialist placement. There was no evidence to support this. When we eventually won at Tribunal, we won exactly what the LA EP had advised a year earlier, the LA were still quids in as they had still saved themselves a year of special school fees. I meanwhile had to give up a good career to home tutor my son and remortgage my house to pay for a private EP and a legal rep to help me. Why are SEN officers - who are just admin staff - allowed to overrule qualified professionals like EP's, Clinical Psychs and SALTs anyway? Its like the medical secretary deciding on the dosage of medication or choice of operation.

How can we close the accountability gap - Tribunals very rarely award costs for abuse of the system, and usually only if a last minute withdrawal wastes costs in the last week - tribunals cannot go back and award costs and compensation for the months before that. Yet the LGO will often say as SENDIST could have issued costs they can't intervene in the SENDIST decision not to award costs. LAs get off scot-free. Presently my LA is apparently 'fighting everything' to push costs into the next financial year.

Why are LAs allowed to drag parents back to tribunal a year (or on current evidence even sooner) to try and get specialist provision won at one tribunal removed? My LA tried to call a review of my son's statement within 6 weeks of the tribunal hearing. They sent the letter requesting a review before they even issued the new statement! Can we not give Tribunal Judges powers to throw these cases out as an abuse e.g. if there is no change in circumstances and no supporting professional evidence. Surely a review within 6 weeks of a tribunal, or even 12 months, cannot be anything other than an unreasonable abuse of power and causing unnecessary stress to a family.

Why is the culture of SEN officers / LAs so dysfunctional and short sighted? If my son had gone through a windscreen and been brain damaged (rather than suffering a severe autistic regression which had the same effect on his brain) and I had gone to hospital it would have been unthinkable that: (1) I would have been berated for wasting NHS time and money (2) that I would have been told my son was a burden on the budget (3) that i would have been made to feel guilty for any care my son did get and told i was depriving other people of care as it was not 'equitable' for my son to get all this help when other people were not (4) a secretary or admin officer or non clinical manager to have decided on his course of treatment (6) to have interventions with no research or evidence base used on my son (7) to have been discharged with a severely disabled child and left to get on with it as 'i needed several months to take in the diagnosis' and not have a single call or visit from any professional until I demanded one and started the statementing procedure (8) to be bullied or personally attacked or lied to about the law or have evidence fabricated against me because I had questioned why my son was being left for months without support (9) for meetings about my son to take place without me and hidden from me, confidentiality breached between agencies. Why is all of this unacceptable in the NHS but a common experience for most of us with children with SEN?

I am worried that planned changes to the SEN system to make it simpler will mean diluting rights. The answer to less tribunals is not to take away the right to a tribunal, but to penalise the LA for denying provision improperly. I am worried the SEN green paper places the blame for disputes at parents doors for unreasonable expectations rather than recognising the very significant role LAs play in making the system deliberately complicated to outwit as many parents as possible.

I don't want a simple system, I want one that is robust, fair and transparent.

I am also really worried about the absence of independent specialist schools and home programmes from the SEN Green Paper - if we lose this gold standard of provision, won't we end up with everything being really mediocre?

How can we use data more cleverly? It must be possible to show whether the cost of specialist placements put in early e.g. at pre school age pay dividends later on, and whether cheap mainstream placements actually end up costing more in unemployment, lost wages for parents and mental health / criminal justice costs. Cheap does not mean good value. How can we use data to find out what is good value? Surely we can track children in terms of employment, mental health etc and see which placements are value for money.

How can we get the information into the public domain to show what LA placements really cost and get rid of the 'nil cost' argument. Why not publish nominal hourly rates for EPs' SALTs etc taking into account all of the costs from their pension, holidays, admin support, training, office building etc to show that independent placements are actually often very good value. Using a watered down hourly TA rate does not reflect the true cost and puts parents at a massive disadvantage when arguing for anything that is not dirt cheap.

What happened to the 2002 ASD guidelines for 15 hours ASD specialist input per week? Why was this allowed to become 15 hours mainstream nursery placement with occasional, generic, one size fits all autism outreach and SALT? Surely that was not what the guidance intended. It said specialist ASD intervention. 15 hours a week specialist provision for pre schoolers seems further away now than ever. Is anyone checking whether this model of stuffing autistic children into mainstream nurseries at 2 is actually working?

Perhaps politicians should meet some young children with SN before they decide that the best place for severely disabled children is not at home with their parents but in mainstream nurseries under a 'disadvantage' label. Anyone who has met a 2 year old autistic child knows that mainstream nursery with unqualified care staff is the last place they should be.

Now that about 1 in 100 people and 1 in 60 males is on the autistic spectrum (plus add their family and friends), don't you think its time to 'do an Obama' and produce some policies to target the autism vote?

Do you think its fair that carers of severely disabled children will lose £75 a week in tax credits from April 2012 if a couple cannot find 24 hours of work between them, even though they might be caring for over 100 hours a week. Why is care not counted as work? Why is one half of these couples expected to do the same amount of work as two people in a couple who do not have caring responsibilities. Why did Labour not campaign for an exemption for carers from this new harsh rule?

Why is legal aid for SEN cases in the parent's name not the child? Any other case for a child is brought on the child's resources. Why should parents who are just above the legal aid limit or who happen to own their house have to pay legal fees and expert fees when other children do not? I have tried and tried to find out if the new legal aid bill changes this position but no-one seems to know. What is the answer. Surely the system is similar to inquests - we don't penalise families whose loved ones die in awful circumstances by making them pay all the legal fees - there is a system to give discretionary legal aid on the basis its not the family's fault their relative died. Surely its the same with SEN. Its not our fault our children have SEN so why we do we have to remortgage our homes to pay for fees to go to SEN tribunals. Surely all children bringing an SEN case deserve legal aid (unless they have some massive trust fund of their own). Would this also not also help bring disputes down as LAs are less likely to play silly games if they know all children will be legally aided to tribunal.

appropriatelyemployed · 20/03/2012 23:06

Truly excellent points Agnes - here, here.

latedeveloper · 20/03/2012 23:06

The SEN system seems to be very inefficient with the limited resources put into gatekeeping, assessment and bureaucracy rather than actual hands on therapy or even working with the parent so they can help their child (nb giving a photocopy of activities to do with your child to a first time parent and then seeing them 1 year later does not constitute either treatment or supporting the parent).

There is a need for all children to be offered a 2 year check where concerns are properly followed up on. Too many of our dc get to the age of 3 or 4 before anything is picked up- even with children with fairly significant needs

My LEA is supposed to be good for ASD but the waiting list time to assess for asd is 4 years. It was also a 4 year wait under Labour and at a time when in other areas of health there were strict limits on waiting times and more ample funding. Why was this ever acceptable?