I have had enough of my children, and wish I had somewhere to go to escape my family.

[QuintessentialyHollow]

I am so tired and fed up, I wish I could leave my family. I wish I had somewhere to go.

My sons are 9 and 6. They are like thoughtless zombie puppies. They misbehave all the time. They dont listen to me. I am constantly embarrassed by them as they cannot behave when we are out in public. If you see two children playfighting with water bottles, or straws as prteend lazer swords, snatching each others hats, squeeling and shouting, while their poor harassed mum is trying to pay, or something, thats possibly us.

Or if you are in a coffee-shop, and see two boys figthing, pinching, licking eachother at the table, where the poor harassed mums word have NO effect whatsoever, that is also possibly us.

I dont know what to do.
Whatever I say, they dont stop. They just look at me for a second, giggle and continue.

Today my trousers, my jumper and my new merino scarf is soaked in coffee. I had told my 6 year old TWICE to sit still at the table and not lean on it. No effect. I am of course drenched.

I cant take them anywhere. They are totally unable to stop misbehaving. They are disruption personified. They are like the duracell bunny of naughtiness.

I think my only salvation is sending them to boarding school so I dont have to be their parent.

Walk out for the day. Leave them with their father. It will at the very least give you a break.

I have done that a few times in the past, when their behaviour together at home becomes too bad. It has no effect.

I wish dh could take them out. They respect him, and dont behave like that with him.

Aw poor u... I certainly don't have any advice that will change things instantly but I guess it's important to know where to go with your children that will suit them. If u know they will make you miserable if you take them to a coffee shop maybe just don't go there. I know many families who simply don't take their kids shopping and I used to think what a shame because my two loved it when they were younger (when one was strapped in a pushchair) but now I've also found I don't enjoy taking my two shopping so I hardly ever do (clothes shopping that is, food shopping is fine... pretty much, and only because I give them things to eat!!)

I guess also discipline with consequences is essential too. And I need to practise what I preach too because I'm certainly not saying I have perfectly well behaved kids all the time. But if they are misbehaving, give them a warning and say if you continue to do that, this will happen (bad thing such as take favourite toy away, no pudding for tea, no tv, etc.) and keep to it. And enjoy it! Regain your power! You are the boss and don't give up. Don't accept their bad behaviour and I know sometimes you probably feel tired of everything, etc, but in long run you'll wish you had battled more. Parenting does feel a bit like a battle I think at times, but it's definitely a worthwhile battle. You want to enjoy a good relationship with your boys for many many years to come. They won't respect you and you'll end up hating them unless you regain your power and stick up for yourself.

I know you probably know all of this but somewhere along road it sounds like you've lost all of the resources within yourself to cope. Good luck... I really hope things will improve for you.

DH needs to get involved with this one. If they do what he says then he has to tell them to 'do as your mother tells you'... with dire consequences for failure to comply etc. Secondly, why do they do what he says? And could you copy his methods?

I agree about regaining your power. There will be a way and you may have to break a few rules or act out of character to get there, but there will be a way. Practice your 'scary mother' act. I also agree that, if they are likely to play up, you don't take them out with you so often. If you have to take them somewhere, tell them beforehand how you expect them to behave and, the minute they play up, don't plead or argue, just grab them roughly by the scruff of the neck firmly by the hand and take them home. Bad behaviour = fun's over.

They needed new shoes.
ds1s trainers were worn out, and ds2s school shoes were falling to pieces. Clarks replaced the school shoes (good on them) as they were only bought back in September. We then went to the coffee shop to wait for dh who was doing some errands in Maplins. It was not a long shopping trip! Dh did the main grocery shop himself last night, we dont take them shopping often!

He is stricter than me. I guess I am nice and considerate mummy.

I am so sad about the whole thing. I have had a long nap, and it has not lifted my mood. I still feel like I dont want to see them.

You can be nice and considerate though while also expecting them to be nice and considerate and sticking to it.

Have you ever read How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk? It's a really good book with some useful suggestions which aren't punishment based.

Bertie, that is exactly the books I have read, and the techniques I have been using, which does not work with my two at all.

It is my birthday during half term. Dh has booked a spa break from the 13th to the 15th, to celebrate my 40th. I want him to cancel. I think our boys will just ruin it totally. We will be spending a significant amount of money, for me to have my "dream break" only for it to be ruined by shit behaviour from the kids. Every weekend trip we have been to have turned into a night mare, as the moment THEY dont have fun, like we are packing up, or preparing to go for walks and getting clothes ready, they start misbehaving and fighting. I cant take it.
It is impossible for them to stay quiet for a few minutes so we can do what we have to do, whether it is paying for shoes in shops, or getting our gear together.

'Nice and considerate', when you've got lively children, is too often interpreted as 'total pushover who can be safely ignored'. Do you think you could raise your game to be a lot stricter the way DH is? Being a parent IME has to be a sort of benign dictatorship rather than a friendship because, if they sense weakness, it can get very miserable very quickly

Sounds awful, poor you.

Have had a similar situation with DS (aged 7). More specific situation (school-related bad behaviour) but so bad that I actually took him to an educational psychologist/counsellor. She recommended the following (AND IT WORKS!) -

Instigate a tick chart system. Explain clearly to your boys that good behaviour (and you define what "good behaviour" entails - it could be eating dinner without getting up from the table, doing homework, being quiet while you make a phone call, ANYTHING AT ALL) - will result in one tick on the chart. When they have ten ticks, they get a treat. The treat needs to be something quite big/valuable to them (you'll see why in a minute) - it doesn't have to cost a lot of money but it needs to be something a lot more special than a packet of sweets. (In my DS' case it was a new game for his Nintendo ds). The treat cannot be edible - this is very important!

However, you will also remove a tick from the chart every time they do something naughty - again, give them examples of what constitutes naughty behaviour before you begin this exercise. Be ruthless about removing ticks every time they misbehave. (They may go into the red at some point - that's fine, my DS had minus 7 ticks at one point .... but he soon earned them back).

When they get to 10 ticks, be ecstatic and make sure you get them their reward as soon as you possibly can.

Now, don't warn them of the next bit.

When they get the treat they will be over the moon and they will probably then slip into complacent mode. So, the moment they do something naughty, tell them VERY CALMLY AND SADLY that the treat was conditional on them having ten ticks on that chart - they knew this. Now they've been naughty and you have to take a tick away so they only have 9 ticks. Which means you have to take the treat away until they earn it back by getting another tick.

THAT is the moment when your control returns, as does your sons' respect for you. It is a truly scary and wonderful moment.

My DS was literally heartbroken when I had to take his game away BUT HE UNDERSTOOD WHY and he realised that it was fair.

The psych suggested that they need to have the treat removed at least overnight, so my DS had his game taken away in the afternoon and he earned it back at breakfast the next morning.

After this stage you can amend the tick system to suit your household. e.g. you might want to allow a maximum number of ticks per day. We now have ticks which add up to pocket money. Each child gets £1 per week, plus an extra 10p for every tick they've earned that week. I don't really need to take ticks away any more, and it works well because the 2 DCs like to compete to see who can get the most. Some weeks they get loads; some weeks they get very few. It is a fantastic "carrot" and it has changed our family life 1000s of times for the better!

I hope this helps.

Does the dream break mean leaving the children behind?

MrsMcEnro, will ponder your post. No cogito, it meant them coming with us. I honestly LIKE spending time with them. Or, I did. I was going to nip for spa treatments while dh and the boys were in the pool, etc. But now, I can just imagine it being a total nightmare. We dont have anybody to leave them with for two nights.

How does it work if you and DH take one each?

I find that helps here, but mine are younger (5 and nearly 2).

It is fine if we take one each, but today they both needed shoes.
Often it just is not practical. And what is the point of being a family if we dont spend any time together?

QuintessentialyHollow please do - it will take a bit of planning and you will need to be very, very tough (and the first few days might be really horrible). You will need to present a united front with your DH if it's going to work so get him on board first. And make the treat something they REALLY want (I was loathe to shell out for a ds game but actually it was a small price to pay for the complete change in family life that ensued). I know it sounds simple and you probably think it won't work for you but it will if you really stick at it.

We have nobody to leave our DCs with overnight either - I really do sympathise. It's my 40th this year too. I'd love a night in a hotel with DH, without the DCs, even if it was just the B&B at the end of our road!

Personally I hate that How to Talk book. If they are not listening and not respecting you then you need to become stricter and your DH definitely needs to step up. My DH says every morning to the children as he leaves for work "You will listen to Mummy or you will have me to deal with". I am tough on them when needs be though. To be honest every friend of mine who tries to follow the "no shouting or raising your voice and no punishment" method has rude and badly behaved children.

Am crap with advice really but just wanted to post to say i really feel for you at the moment.

You have had a big move and clearly some/all of you feel like square pegs in round holes. I wish I was your neighbour to drag you in and feed you wine.

Try to just ride it out. You will settle and your boys will settle. In the meantime try to be kind to yourself.

It's not what you say it's the way that you say it.

You do know how to assert yourself. Imagine you were at a bar and a guy tried to chat you up. You give clear signs that you're not interested but he persists and tries to touch you. You would say 'get off' or similar but in a tone of voice and with the body language that you mean it. Practice in front of a mirror.

Don't be afraid to be tough (firm but fair) with your boys. Remember it's up to you to teach them how to behave, you aren't doing them any favours letting them disrespect you.

Yes I've read the "How to Talk" book too and I think it's overrated too. Sometimes adults get cross and they snap / raise their voices etc. It's part of life, kids have to learn to deal with that! (I'm not talking about prolonged shouting & intimidation obv).

MrsMcEnroe love the tick chart i will definitely be using this system :)

quintessentiallyhollow i feel for you i have days with my DD where i just want to walk away and never come back some days its only the thought of others reactions that stops me which then leads to giult trip where i overindulge DD and the cycle starts again,it's getting better as she gets older though, chin up xx

meant guilt

Sounds like they have boundless amounts of energy and you have now just forecast what's in store for me with my two DSs!!!

Could you possibly get them out in an environment where they can really burn off that energy in a positive way like something as very basic as going to a football pitch, give them a ball and let them just run riot, kick about time. They just need to expel their energy in a more appropriate way (i.e. not in a coffee shop!!).

Try not to worry so much, tomorrow is a new day. Start afresh and do not remind them of what happened yesterday or the day before? Just keep positive frame of mind.

Things have to get better for you! Don't give up :)

lovechock you are right about that. We normally spend our weekends going for long country walks, or long cycle rides. When we lived in Norway they were skiing 5-7 days of the week throughout winter, and going for mountain walks 3-6 days the rest of the year. We have a trampoline for them to bounce on, but it is too cold now. They are used to a much higher level of activity than is possible now. Going to coffee shops is a rare occurrence. We were originally going to Dulwich today, for a visit to the Horniman museum and a walk in the park, but the traffic was so bad, we decided to go buy shoes instead.

They should be able to contain themselves and not fight and squibble and fidget, hug and cuddle and wrestle eachother like they have neither thought processes or manners.

Another potentially nice day has evaporated, with ds2s arguments and bickering over going to Church. After yesterday dh just lost it with him and were literally shouting. Ds2 is now grounded to his room, and I am downstairs. Dh and ds1 have gone to Church. We are not regular Church goers, but ds1 is going through First Communion (2 years late due to problems getting it organized in Norway), so he has to be there.

I just wonder if it is feasible for us to live as two separate units, so we have one child each. I am clearly not cut out for parenthood.

With all the problems ds1 is causing in school, where I am contacted several times per week, I cannot mentally handle them BOTH misbehaving on the weekend. I need some rest, I needs some days without arguing and bickering and problems. I have even wondered if I should take ONE boy and go to Norway and just give up. I dont think it is fair to leave dh with both of them, but if they are separated they are a lot easier to manage, and they generally behave well.