How to work out boundaries with childminding grandparents (without arguing!)?

[Listzilla]

I don't know if this is the right section for this, but there are so many it could go in that I'm stumped

My parents mind DD for two days a week, unpaid. I love that they do it, I'm delighted that they're so fond of her (and she of them), and so involved in her life. I don't want it to stop.

But I'm finding it a little hard to deal with the whole situation.

We've had disagreements lately about how DD should be dealt with (for instance, they insist that she shouldn't be allowed to put anything other than food or drink or a dodi in her mouth, whereas I think that an 18 month old is inevitably going to mouth things, and we should just make sure there's nothing dangerous or fragile within her reach).

When I stopped giving DD bottles during the day at a year, I gave them a sippy cup to give her but they kept giving bottles. No matter how many times I asked them to stop and my mum agreed to, my dad would end up admitting that they were still giving her bottles.

I don't much like the way they feed her, either; I know she's difficult to get food into, but they seem to resort to sliced fried potato every day and I'd prefer if she wasn't eating that sort of thing. Unfortunately she often won't eat the healthier options I provide, though, and they've decided that it's better for her to eat fried potato than nothing.

Mum has made a couple of digs lately about how they're the best of all DD's carers. For instance, she thinks it's great that she gets so much input from her grandparents because apparently we, and the creche workers she's with 3 days a week, don't interact with her (this really, really isn't true!); also, she was telling me how happy she was to bring DD out for two walks one day last week, because 'we're the only people who ever give her any fresh air' (we do take her out when we're home at the weekend, and the creche has an outdoor area which the kids use whenever it's not raining - the child is by no means kept indoors for 5 days a week!).

Mum also resents the creche and makes pointed comments about them all the time, that there's no way DD is really eating or napping for them and they must be lying in her logbook - I know this isn't true, aside from anything else the evidence is there in her nappies - you can't argue with those! I've no reason not to trust the creche, they have a fantastic reputation locally and I really like all the staff members, and DD is always delighted to be left there in the mornings. I have no reason to believe any of mum's claims are at all justified.

Finally (sorry, I'm terribly longwinded), I find that my parents are inclined to take over a bit when we're all together, as if they're her parents and we're not. So in our house, when we're there, they still enforce their rules about things like chewing, even when I try to stop them and tell them it's okay. And mum tends to refer to herself as 'mama' when talking to DD, and when DD is upset, will reach out to take her out of my arms.

The thing is, if I try to say anything to them about any of this, they get terribly offended; even asking mum not to call herself 'mama' gets me accused of overreacting. They're very, very over-sensitive about everything generally, but particularly anything related to DD, so I find I have to just put up with it. And while I can manage that now, I'm afraid that as DD gets older and we disagree about more serious issues, it won't be possible, so I'd like to start being a bit more assertive now (though gently!).

Any suggestions?!

Pick your battles. A cup or a bottle is neither here nor there. What goes in her mouth is neither here nor there. Grandma calling herself 'mama'... bit strange but as long as your child understands who is who, it's not the end of the world.

My mum also reckons that she has been a major influence on DS's life despite living 200 miles away and seeing him only for short periods at a time. He's now 11yo and she is apparently the reason for all his achievements. She also hated him being with a childminder but I just had to squash that one flat. My DN (her other grandson) is 3yo and all the time she tells me how much more he loves being at her house than with his mother.... You're not the only one with a bonkers credit-stealing granny, don't worry.

Limit your objections to things that are dangerous or offensive and then be very very firm indeed - don't take any shit. Everything else is not worth getting upset over. Children benefit from lots of different parenting styles.

No real advice here, but we had a similar option to use ILs for childminding, and chose not to for the sake of our relationships. I knew it just wouldn't work out.

We sucked up the extra financial cost of CM instead of sacrificing our relationship. We're nearly at the end of the financial struggle and boy has it been a struggle. We visit the ILs frequently, and it's OK that the DCs get more chocolate than I'd like, or son't brush their teeth properly as it's not every day.

I think I've saved us all a lot of angst by not having them do the minding for us. They have helped out in dire straits but not as a regular arrangement.

Do you have any option to move childcare?

I should repeat we are proper broke, and could have saved ourselves thousands by using them, so I know I'm not saying this lightly.

No, changing isn't an option. It means too much to us that she'll have a good relationship with them - that's more important than my having to bite my tongue! And I've had an awful relationship with my mother forever, so I've been gradually teaching myself patience with her in anyway. And of course, changing wouldn't save our relationship because they'd never, in a million years, forgive us for taking her away now.

I know I should probably just get over it and leave them to it, but it annoys me that they undermine me with her, and I want to get them out of the habit of it before she gets old enough to really notice.

I think the 'mama' thing is making it worse for me; that, and the constant implications that we're bad, lazy parents. And the fact that ever since I told her I was pregnant, she's been telling me she wishes it was her instead of me, and she's terribly jealous. And that she said she wished I was having twins so that I could give her one. And the fact that when I told her I was pregnant this time she asked me to leave a longer age gap because she didn't want another so soon. I think what I'm getting at is that there are significant boundary issues outside of the childminding that may be clouding my judgement...

I would try a nice friendly chat with them, but if it doesn't work then I would have to think of alternative hours, carers etc.

Maybe if they feel they have to offer other food to your child, could they offer her fruit or toast instead when she won't eat?

I would struggle with my Mum wanting to be called Mama by my children. If you really can't afford other childcare then you will have to suck it up, but maybe your employer could offer you different hours etc. which may help you out.

Good luck.

Oooh cross posts there.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there. There are issues. By the sounds of it you are going to have to bite your tongue but it will all come to a head some day.

This is a bit 'out there', but my DS has some mild intolerances. This meant that when ILs did emergency care for us, I sent a hamper of food for him (think free from type stuff). Could you be "trying an exclusion diet" of some sort???

I do sympathise. It sounds really difficult.

smacka, I tried asking them not to give her yoghurt a few months ago, because the GP said not to give it to her (she vomited every time she ate it). They ignored me and kept giving it to her (it was always us who had to deal with the aftermath, because she had it for tea in their house and then came home!). The GP is their doctor too, so they trust her; it wasn't about that. There's a quite impressive amount of refusing to listen going on!

Put a stop to this. Your mother has severe boundary issues - she wanted you to have twins so she could take one baby?? She's jealous you're pregnant? Not normal. So why leave your precious DC in the care of someone you don't get on with, who is unhinged, calls herself your DC's mama, and feeds her stuff to make her sick?

i know this may sound rude, but do you genuinely think they have your daughter's best interest at heart.? I don't think (going by the information in your posts), that allowing your mum to look after your daughter 2 days a week is in your daughters best interest or yours.

If you have asked them not feed her certain foods and they still do, then no matter what you say, will not make them stop doing exactly what they want to do.

It's not so much that she fed her stuff to make her sick deliberately, as she didn't believe me that yoghurt was causing a problem, because DD was fine with milk and cheese. I think she thought there was a touch of PFB going on? And she claims the mama thing is accidental, that she just forgets, after being mama herself for so long.

The twins thing did feel REALLY wrong when she said it, but I'm choosing to believe that it was just a cringe-inducingly inappropriate throwaway comment and not remotely serious. I mean, she couldn't possibly have meant it.

I don't think she's actually unhinged as such, just a touch eccentric. And she did manage to raise my sister and I to be reasonably functional adults.

list reading your last few posts I would strongly suggest you try and find a way to cut it down to one day if at all. Let them be grandparents but it seems very evident that your mom wants to be a parent all over again. I don't think it's a healthy way to grow up being torn between two sets of parents.

Even step families now work at co-parenting - having agreed boundaries and rules and giving consistency to the dc. You may think that youre avoiding a short term argument but you're actually building up long term issues.

My mom and dad look after my ds for me and dh when we have difficult shift patterns so at least four to five days a month on average. My mom would never dream of undermining us and when we are around loves being a grandparent. You need to have an open honest relationship for this arrangement to work out in the longterm.

tricky, yes, I'm 100% confident that they both have her best interests at heart. As far as I can see the problem is just that they don't agree with me about what's best for her, because we don't do things the same way they did.

springboks, that's why I'm asking about this now - I want to try and change things now to prevent the long term problems I can see on the horizon!

I really think you should cut it down to one day per week. There are definate boundary issues going on.

TBH I would challenge the comments on your bad parenting etc I would pick them up on it every single time. "Did you mean to be so hurtful when you said that" that kind of thing.

RandomMess, that would lead to arguments also, about how unreasonable and prone to overreacting I am. They believe with absolute conviction that they're perfectly reasonable at all times and I'm still a mad hormonal teenager.

(I'm 32 next month)

You don't have a good relationship with your mum so what makes you think your DD will? This is more than a few differing opinions IMO.

Your parents can be grandparents without doing the childcare. It sounds like you don't feel able to challenge your mum and are putting up with it for the sake of a (Rose tinted idealistic) view of a grandparent/daughter relationship. How far can they go before you make changes?

At some point this is going to come to head.

The sooner you get it done with the better.

You are going to have indulgent grandparents slating you to your child - please do not put your daughter in that position.

List I'm sure that they have her best interests at heart. I know that of I just left my CM to it she would be fine. But the point is me and dh are ds parents. No one else. Therefore we do things our way. My parents raised me and dsis very well but there are something's they did that I don't agree with and don't want for my son. So they don't do them because they respect me as a parent, which is something your parents clearly don't.

If you want to have a good relationship, then both you and your parents must come to a common ground so that your dd has consistency in her life. As she gets older it will become harder for her to manage conflicting expectations between the pair of you and that is not fair. Perhaps you need to sit down and talk to your parents firmly about the boundaries needed, and more importantly, the consequences for failing to stick to them (and stick to it!).

Can I ask - where is dd dad?

I think that you shouldn't dismiss the idea of changing the arrangment as much as you would rather not. Its great that their hearts are in the right place and what not, but ultimately they are undermining your wishes and overstepping boundaries. I think this is likely to only get worse as you move into more complicated issues such as discipline. Even worse still when your child gets to an age where they can manipulate between both sides.

You know these people far better than we do - do you really think a gentle chat will resolve things? By all means give it a try....but are you really willing to continue on if they just ignore you and carry on? There is only so much you can do beyond picking your battles, trying to politely address issues and ultimately changing the arrangement if they are not willing to respect your wishes.

Your child can have a great and close relationship with her grandparents without them caring for her twice a week. The strain on your relationship might make it worthwhile to consider all of the options.

DD's dad is upstairs putting her to bed at the moment, then he's coming down to make my dinner He agrees with me that my parents overstep the mark badly on occasion, but won't get involved in any discussion with them about it because he's fundamentally unable to challenge any sort of authority figure and would probably end up apologising to them for me saying something! He doesn't think we should stop them minding her though. I think he'd probably agree with me that there's no such thing as a perfect family, and even though things are a little dysfunctional, she's better off with them than without them.

Molly, no, the only thing a gentle chat would do is start an argument, with cold shoulders and huffs and general childishness. I can't begin to emphasise how oversensitive they are - every request I make is construed as criticism of their parenting (grandparenting), with horrible consequences.

If we did change our childcare arrangements, they would be so very very offended that I don't think we'd ever be forgiven, so our relationship wouldn't survive that.

There's really no easy answer to this, is there?

One thing my mother said to me: Never rely on family for childcare.
She's so right. There was no ulterior motive for her saying it, she lives too far away and works full time.

He who pays the piper, calls the tune. With family, there's always extra dynamics, however well-intentioned. I'm not talking about the odd night or weekend, but the reliable daily childcare you need when you work.

No doubt I'll be slated for this opinion, but I'd rather fork the money out. DP have had offers of free childcare but politely declined. It hasn't caused a rift.

This is a really unhealthy situation for you and your DD to be in, and it is only going to get worse until you tackle the root of the problem, not the flowery leaves.

But it's YOUR choice as her parents to make the decision over who cares for her, not your parents to decide you HAVE to give her to them for two days a week. It shouldn't matter if they agree with you about any decision you make for your children (or anything else for that matter) - it's YOUR decision.

Don't let them decide to take her for two days because you are afraid, obligated, guilty - how is that putting your DD's best interests first?

What if your parents decide your daughter should have her hair cut, go to X pre-school, go to this dance class and not that one - those are parenting decisions, not grand-parenting decisions. Are you all aware of the difference?

Having GP do childcare blurs the boundaries, and in a healthy relationship that's all part of a community raising a child etc, but where you are letting them bully you into a situation that you are uncomfortable, it is not the right thing to do.

If we did change our childcare arrangements, they would be so very very offended that I don't think we'd ever be forgiven, so our relationship wouldn't survive that

There's really no easy answer to this, is there?

It's an easy decision to make - and your place to do so.
How they react is down to them. It doesn't sound as if they see you as an adult, so of course they know better and whatever you want is silly and wrong - you have to get CBT or whatever that gets you to put you and your family first.

I think you need to learn to be more confident about your choices and perhaps some counselling to help you stand up to your parents.

It doesn't sound like they will stop seeing your dd which actually does put you in a better position than you think to pull them up when they over step the mark.

There are some things that you can just let go on but when they are bad mouthing you etc it's unacceptable. Please be careful that this doesn't come back to bite you very badly.