How to work out boundaries with childminding grandparents (without arguing!)?

[Listzilla]

I don't know if this is the right section for this, but there are so many it could go in that I'm stumped

My parents mind DD for two days a week, unpaid. I love that they do it, I'm delighted that they're so fond of her (and she of them), and so involved in her life. I don't want it to stop.

But I'm finding it a little hard to deal with the whole situation.

We've had disagreements lately about how DD should be dealt with (for instance, they insist that she shouldn't be allowed to put anything other than food or drink or a dodi in her mouth, whereas I think that an 18 month old is inevitably going to mouth things, and we should just make sure there's nothing dangerous or fragile within her reach).

When I stopped giving DD bottles during the day at a year, I gave them a sippy cup to give her but they kept giving bottles. No matter how many times I asked them to stop and my mum agreed to, my dad would end up admitting that they were still giving her bottles.

I don't much like the way they feed her, either; I know she's difficult to get food into, but they seem to resort to sliced fried potato every day and I'd prefer if she wasn't eating that sort of thing. Unfortunately she often won't eat the healthier options I provide, though, and they've decided that it's better for her to eat fried potato than nothing.

Mum has made a couple of digs lately about how they're the best of all DD's carers. For instance, she thinks it's great that she gets so much input from her grandparents because apparently we, and the creche workers she's with 3 days a week, don't interact with her (this really, really isn't true!); also, she was telling me how happy she was to bring DD out for two walks one day last week, because 'we're the only people who ever give her any fresh air' (we do take her out when we're home at the weekend, and the creche has an outdoor area which the kids use whenever it's not raining - the child is by no means kept indoors for 5 days a week!).

Mum also resents the creche and makes pointed comments about them all the time, that there's no way DD is really eating or napping for them and they must be lying in her logbook - I know this isn't true, aside from anything else the evidence is there in her nappies - you can't argue with those! I've no reason not to trust the creche, they have a fantastic reputation locally and I really like all the staff members, and DD is always delighted to be left there in the mornings. I have no reason to believe any of mum's claims are at all justified.

Finally (sorry, I'm terribly longwinded), I find that my parents are inclined to take over a bit when we're all together, as if they're her parents and we're not. So in our house, when we're there, they still enforce their rules about things like chewing, even when I try to stop them and tell them it's okay. And mum tends to refer to herself as 'mama' when talking to DD, and when DD is upset, will reach out to take her out of my arms.

The thing is, if I try to say anything to them about any of this, they get terribly offended; even asking mum not to call herself 'mama' gets me accused of overreacting. They're very, very over-sensitive about everything generally, but particularly anything related to DD, so I find I have to just put up with it. And while I can manage that now, I'm afraid that as DD gets older and we disagree about more serious issues, it won't be possible, so I'd like to start being a bit more assertive now (though gently!).

Any suggestions?!

lots of x-posts there

Your parents don't need to look after your dd to have a good relationship with her. As other posters have said if you don't have a great relationship with your Mum why will your dd?

This is only going to get worse over time, the best thing is to send your dd to creche full time.

FGS woman, grow a backbone! (Meant in the nicest possible way!) If you didn't get on with your mum when you were younger, why are you trusting her with your daughter? I get that it's important to you that they have a good relationship, but undermining you all the time is Not Good for your DD. Seriously. How confused will she be when she's older and grandma keeps telling her they're the only people who look after her properly?

You sound as if you're looking for advice on how to change them. This is impossible. The only thing you can change is how you deal with them. You could try saying stuff like 'when you do x I feel y' and see if that makes an impression on them. You could ask to have a big talk during which you outline your concerns in a calm manner and establish that you as DD's parents run the show, and if after a set timespan you still dot feel you can trust them, you will have to look for alternative child care. This would not be you being horrible to them and damaging your relationship, but it would be you drawing boundaries because of the damage they are doing to your relationship with them. To leave your daughter with anyone you have to trust them an enormous amount. They are damaging that trust by continually going against your express wishes. Not silly laughable wishes, but things that are important to you as well as for DD's welfare.

Are you pregnant with your 2nd DC now? Could you not take this baby's arrival as the reason to put DD in crèche for 2 more days instead? Take your mum's comment about wanting a bigger gap as the reason. The whole 'too much work for them/they should enjoy their retirement' angle. Is this a possibility?

So - you cannot criticise their care of YOUR daughter because they will effectively throw a tantrum about it and take it badly. So much so that if you don't do it their way, there is actually a risk that they will never forgive you?

Yet it is entirely appropriate, in their eyes, to criticise your parenting whenever they get the chance including not following the advice of the GP and giving your daughter something that you knew would make her sick?

That is not a healthy relationship. The things your mother says are in a one-off context a bit but when you add them together it is more . I don't think that there is anything you can do to make them see that they are in the wrong. It doesn't matter that they don't agree with your requests - YOU are the parent here, not them. Do you not see that they may well also do the same with DD as she gets older? The threat of a rift occurring because of not doing things their way will NOT end with you. Your DD will also be conditioned to do things their way because if she doesn't, she will risk them never forgiving her or speaking to her.

If it were minor things that they were ignoring then that might be different, but here it sounds very much as if they think that they are the parents, you are the childcare two days a week along with the creche for the other three.

They are your parents. They should love you unconditionally - and if that means accepting you want to parent in a different way, then so be it.

My mil made very pointed comments about me to dd when small and we had all kinds of control issues going on. She looked after her one day a week, mostly so that she could 'be involved' in dd's life. After a couple of years dd started asking why nanny didn't like me. We decided then that it would be better if nanny didn't get quite so involved in the childcare side of things. We told her my working pattern had changed and we had to get dd into the nursery near work as it was impractical to go to where she lived first in the morning. She wasn't chuffed, but we promised her weekends for as long as dd wanted to go. DD was 9 when she stopped wanting to go...now she's nearly 11 and we have to strongarm her to go. She says she doesn't understand why nanny hates me or why she thinks I don't let dd eat chocolate or why she thinks I'm a rubbish mum! Trust me...you need to tackle this before it becomes your child's issues instead of your own!

Flapperghasted is right. Your DD's comprehension is now taking off. It won't be long before she finds the differences in her care unsettling - how the rules change and how she seems to have two mamas. I wouldn't guarantee that all of it doesn't come with a commentary "you really want to live with Mama, don't you DD, so that you can have yummy yogurt, not like your nasty Mummy" sort of thing. Saying that sort of thing to a tiny baby makes no difference, but as she gets older, it really matters.

Your DD loves the creche - it really is time to move her there full time and for her grandparents to just be her grandparents. Whatever explanation you need to use and whatever form of communication (letter etc) you need to use. Book the creche place first so that you know you have it immediately.

listzilla - the previous posters have described exactly what I meant by "your mum having your daughters best interests at heart". If they did then they would not undermine you the way they are. They would not presume that they know best and you don't. It sounds to me as if they only have their interests at their heart at the moment.

I know you are worried that they will cut contact with you and your daughter if you stop them minding her. Thereefore, you feel you cannot make that choice. You have to think of your daughter and put her before everything else.

You are saying that they are not even approachable, that you can't just gently ask them to do what you would like. I can't comprehend how you think it is ok for them to mind your daughter, until she starts school, I would presume.

Also, think you mentioned that you are pregnant. Will they then look after the two children, and will continue undermine you with both of them.

It must be heartbreaking thinking you could lose contact with your parents but you have to do something about the situation.

Sorry you are unhappy op. I do feel it is the worst thing ever to doubt your worth as a parent or have to defend yourself at all like this.

My parents are just like yours, the loveliest doting grandparents. They adore dd as if she were their own, I catch my dad calling himself dada (by accident though, not a weird thing!) and they are always calling her by my name by mistake- she looks very much like me as a baby and I think that must take them back to that time!

Anyway, I am very lucky in that I also have a great relationship with them and they do listen to "my way" most of the time. Although I have to say, they do sometimes have good ideas, especially by dad, he seems to think he is the baby whisperer now!

However, a few months ago after they made little digs, definitely joking but didn't realise I found it hurtful, my mum made a joke about my "poor parenting" (again, most certainly a joke, I have no worries that they are concerned about dd's welfare one bit!) and said something about reporting me to social services. I don't know if it was just a bad moment but I came over all teary and just said that it is the worst thing in the world to think you might not be a good mum to your baby. My mum was mortified, had no idea I was being hurt by "jokes" and apologised profusely. Nothing has been said since... Maybe they don't realise just how upsetting it is for you?

Hope you manage to sort things out soon op

Unfortunately you have a choice, you might not like it but you do. Depending on how old your DC is, you have an ideal opportunity when they start half-days at school to re-jig your childcare arrangements.

Your DC can have a lovely relationship with your parents without them having to look after her every week. They can take her out for day trips or whatever, ad hoc and have an amazing time. I'm not so sure that regular childcare is working for you unless you can be really honest with them.

We've had to be with PIL over bedtime issues with DD (2.4yo). MIL isn't listening so we've been a little more assertive with FIL. Sadly, if it hasn't improved by the end of Jan, we'll be looking at putting DD into a nursery environment so she doesn't stay regularly overnight with PIL. It's upsetting DD and she's not sleeping well the first night home with us. Occasionally, not a problem but every week is. It's not nice to do but DD doesn't need rocking to sleep at 2.4yo and settles fine in her cot with someone just sitting quietly in the room for a few minutes. I think MIL just loves the cuddles but DD isn't enjoying it either as she gets overtired, starts screaming and then doesn't sleep for them until 9pm or later. Big fallout the next day when DH & I (plus CM) have her!!

It won't be nice for PIL but it isn't nice for DD now, and our priority is DD (and our family time the days after she's been with PIL). I'm not prepared to deal with horrific bedtimes post PIL when we've worked really hard to get DD self-settling and she's a good little sleeper now. She didn't sleep through until 18mo so I am a bit sensitive about it

I don't think anyone is telling you to cut them out of your lives OP - just not to have them in a childminder role. My parents are very close to my child but don't childmind outside of here and there babysitting. This much less complicated arrangment allows for us all to have a good relationship. I don't understand maintaining this situation because they will throw a fit....how is it good for your daughter to see you bullied and undermined?

Are you pregnant now then? What will you do when the new baby's born? Would it be a good opportunity to change childcare arrangements? If she said she 'didn't want another one so soon' you can take that as 'not able to cope with two' and find some alternative arrangements.

I couldn't hack all this myself.

Ok I also use family for regular childcare. Issues do come up that you need to mention. These were talked about and mostly resolved.

It sounds like you have many issues, some of which would make me reconsider the arrangement. The bottles, and food and mouthing I could let go but undermining you by the use of mama and claiming she isn't happy with anyone else would be a deal breaker for me.

My DCs family unlike yours have been unfailingly supportive, saying how all the arrangements suit the children and that we as parents are doing great job (obviously they are biased!). If you can't get this from your own mum and dad I would look elsewhere for childcare tbh.

Might be worth trying the 'we're all in this together' approach and bringing in as many third parties as possible so it isn't just you..

"So that we can make sure you aren't taking on too much, can we agree on what time I collect/ drop off/ what food I provide/ etc?"
"I discussed with the creche about the best way to handle DD's tantrums about putting her coat on, and we agreed that we would try x - do you think you could try this as well for a week or two, so we can all see if it works?"
Even "The HV / GP noticed that DD isn't reacting well to this sort of food and suggested cutting down on it. I think it's worth a try and the creche have agreed - could we all try cutting it out for a month and see if it improves things?"

It might help in highlighting that your DM doesn't have an 'extra child', but that your child is being looked after by lots of people - there is no 'best' but there needs to be consistency.