Advice needed please

[namechanging]

I have a ds,6. His dad has been away a lot during his life, mostly due to being in prison.
Ds has had him back in his life for a year now, and has grown attached to him. He likes having him around and I feel it is good for him to know him, I feel he needs it.

This morning I got a letter from ex, saying he is in prison again (last saw him just before Chirstmas when he dropped off christams presents)
He wants me to visit. I know he would like me to take ds.

Trouble is, I have always said to ds he is away working. I am now wondering whether to come clean and tell ds the truth (doesn't have to know it's not the first time) If I am truthful, I can take ds with me to visit, so that he can at least keep him in his mind and know it's that he can't see him rather than can't be bothered, BUT I'm just not sure whether it's the right thing to do.

I also have dd,2, but I don't think she would be too bothered, maybe just a bit confused about why daddy's sat there and then we're leaving him there!

I think ds might be troubled by leaving him there too but I don't want him to think his dad's abandoned him.

HELP! What shall I do????

How long is his sentence this time?

he's not been sentanced yet, still on remand.
I would think he's looking at at least 4 years

Then I think he should be told.

Must be a fairly serious crime to warrant 4 years. He's hardly a good role model is he. Just because he is his dad doesnt mean that contact should be maintained regardless. If you do tell your son then you can be pretty sure that all his friends at school will know about it. It wouldnt be fair to ask him to keep it secret and may well alienate him from other children whose parents will be prejudiced against you whether you like it or not. I imagine visiting him in prison will be fairly traumatic too. It's not like his dad can read him stories, play with his toys with him, give him a bath, take him to the footie etc etc. There is very little he can do apart from have very stilted conversations with him. Seemingly the access hasnt been too regular if you had not heard or seen him since before Christmas. Having his son back in his life hasnt stopped him from committing a crime and as he has a past history it probably wont again. Cant see the point in maintaining something that is really unsustainable.

Thanks for your views.
I think after he is sentanced I will decide whether to tell him, but if it 4 years + then I am going to have to tell ds where he is I think.

Trifle, yes, you are right, he's not been reliable, but he has tried, believe me. It's a complex situation. I know what you mean about being a role model and the problems with other kids etc. I just so want him to have some form of contact as it's been so important to him. He's been a lot lot happier having him around.

Message withdrawn

This is a very tricky situation. I?m inclined to agree with the other posters who have suggested that prison is not a good place for children to visit. Also, if you tell your DS where his dad is, is your DS old enough to take it all in? it?s possible that your DS might ask what his dad has done to be in prison, and I?m guessing that as your XP is on remand and is looking at a 4 year sentence, that the crime is drugs/violence related? Kids at this age often have a hero worship for their fathers, and telling him about the crimes his father has committed could lead your DS to either have his dad knocked hard off the pedestal he has put him on and cause your own DS? world to come crashing down, or cause him to think that what your XP has done is cool and cause him to have admiration for his dad who is big and hard and in prison.

yes, I think he will ask me what he's done. I was thinking of going along the lines of 'something very naughty' but not go into details. Don't know if it will work as ds is old enough not to be satisified with that I think.

On the way home from school, I told him I'd had a letter from his dad, and that he has had to go away, and that he won't see him for a while, but I hope to be able to take him to him some time.
He asked where he was and I said I wasn't sure.
I suppose that's a start.

I know my family will be really upset if I tell ds the truth, but I feel in my heart that I know him best and that it may be better to be truthful.

Although what's worrying me, is, as you said, wannaBe, that he will think it's 'cool' or 'hard'
I don't think he's at that stage yet, he's still quite fearful of authority/police etc, but that does scare me for the future

does anyone else have a view?

There was an article in the guardian last year about fathers who are in prison and schemes to help them maintain contact with their children, said to help both parties and cut reoffending rates.. I guess it depends how it is managed both by the parents and the prisons ( am sure some better than others.

What has your ex done?

robbery

What a hard one for you to cope with. I understand the POV of those who think a criminal dad is better cut out of your ds's life but I really strongly believe that contact with a parent who loves you is more important than anything else unless there is abuse involved. If you don't tell ds where his dad is you are risking the following a) they will lose contact b) when the sentence ends ds's dad will turn up again and try to regain contact (and the instability of the disappearing and appearing act could be more unsettling than keeping up low level contact throughout) and c) ds will find out the truth at a future age and hold it aginst you for cutting contact.

I have a firm belief that kids cope with any situation we present them with as long as they are secure that they are loved and wanted. it will be harder for you to cope with the social stigma (of dad in prison) than for your ds because he is too young to feel it. If you present the facts to ds as you suggest he can understand why dad has disappeared without feeling rejected by him. The decision whether to take him to see him would be easier if you are honest to start with.

Thanks so much shimmy. I really wanted someone to see it that way!

That's exactly how I'm feeling. When ds was younger and ex wasn't around he was down about it a lot, he thought he just didn't want to see him.
He's had him back a year and the joy in him when he sees him is lovely.

I know it's hard for most people to understand, and it's nothing something I'm proud of or want to shout from the rooftops, but my ex and me have been over for years, when I met him I knew nothing about his lifestyle, so I'm not involved in this in any way. I just want to do what's best for my little boy.

I've told him we could write to him where he is and that his dad will try and ring him but I feel ds actually needs to see him and see where he is. None of my family agree with me, and I feel very alone with my decision but I am really starting to feel it may be better.

Like you said, I can not and will not keep this from ds for ever and I think it could be worse to find out as an older child or teenager when he's getting into maybe thinking that's something to aspire to, rather than to tell him now and drum in to him how wrong his dad has been, and so ds can see he is being punished.

Think you are making the right decison namechanging. Children can cope with a lot if the adults around them are being calm, honest and rational. And it sounds like you are being all those things...

Thanks beejay.

I've just had a major argument with my dad and he put the phone down on me when I said I was considering telling ds the truth and taking him to visit Looks like if I go down this route, I will be going it alone, with no family support.

The thing is, he will know eventually and I feel it may be just putting off the inevitable not to tell him. I think it would hurt him more to think he's just not coming round, than to actually know where he is.

But I could be wrong, and obviously there is no way of knowing how he will react until it's happened.

I thought I would wait for sentancing and then depending on the outcome, decide whether to tell him or not.

Do people feel it would be wrong to take dd (she is 2) or is it more ds's age and understanding that people feel makes it wrong?

namechanging - I also think that you are making the right decision, being honest with your DS. You are obviously being very mature and strong about the situation and your DS will pick up on those emotions. No doubt he will ask questions of you and your ex, but if you are honest I do not see how this will harm DS - feeling he is abandoned and unloved would be a much more traumatic experience.

Good luck

Trifle! Only perfect Dads are worth it then? Geez!

For what it is worth, here is my view:

Children need to learn about life, they need to feel secure in doing this and so must feel they can trust their carers. This, then, requires honesty. You must tell him the truth.

His Dad is his Dad, warts and all and he has the right to make his own judgements and to change them, if he wants, as his understanding grows in line with his maturity. You must provide him with the facts in an unbiased, sensitive and calm way. I wouldn't worry about talking about robbery - just make sure you explain evrything especially the effect it has on others and the reasons why people feel the need or have the need to steal. Many people steal because they have no other survival choices, this is a fact of our society and he will need to understand this one day, so no reason why he shouldn't start to learn these facts in a simple way now. Same goes for death, sex and all the other 'taboo' subjects.

Ask him what he would like to do. Let him feel he has some control by giving him a say in things. Thsi will give him confidence.

What is wrong with a prison environment if you are there, he is empowered by the knowledge you give him and he trusts you to tell him the truth and keep him safe - always? I took my children all under the age of five to a Mental Health ward to visit a family member. I hope they will remember and value the experience. I know that it has not upset them or damaged them.

Children's innocence is one of their best assets, that doesn't mean they will lose it by exposing them to new and different situations. As innocent, non judgemental individuals (unlike us adults) they will take things in their stride and impress you with their empathy, concern and love for ALL. Innocence is lost far faster by being fibbed to, by having people keep things secret from you and by denying you the opportunity to express your love.

Sorry your family don't support your fantastic approach. I am not surprised, they are probably recoiling at the thought of their grandchild being associated with a prison environment, yet alone a PRSIONER!! It is stigma that does this to people. Let you and your little boy be embassadors for change, within your family, within our society. He is the next generation. I think we all hope that as children of the next generation, our offspring will grow up to be compassionate and non judgemental.

We have to let them be these things though, and you are taking the first steps towards this by letting him go see his Dad.

I hope he and your ex really enjoy the visits, and I am certain that only positive things can come from them.

sorry, typo alert! Ambassador not embassador!

Thanks very much to both of you.

I feel that I am right in being honest with him, but it's hard when your family are against you.
I feel that if he reacts badly it will be "We told you so" I'm actually not sure my dad will talk to me again if I take him to see him, but I think a lot of that is because ds and my dad have a close relationship, and I think my dad feels threatened when ds's dad is around or even being spoken about, he can't stand it

Both my children spoke to ex yesterday, he phoned and has told them he's working atm so it gives me some time to play with. I think I am going to wait until we have a clearer idea of length of sentance, although tbh, it's not looking too good I am upset for my ds, as he has waited so long to have his dad properly in his life, and now this. Ex maintains his innocence btw and feels he has been set up.

When I know roughly how long, then I will tell ds and ask him whether he wants to go and see him. I hope he will. Dd needs to see him too. She is only 2

Trifle, I would just like to say, in response to your post, his contact was regular. Ds last saw him Xmas eve which was the day he was arrested.

you may find some useful information on these sites:-

www.prisonersfamilies.org.uk
www.howardleague.org

my mother had a friend that did voluntary work at the visitors' centre at Strangeways in Manchester- I think they did make a great deal of effort to make sure that the environment wasn't too intimidating for children.

I think I agree with Nannyme - that it is best to tell your DS the truth, and to let him and your ex maintain a relationship. What would concern me about your DS not being told the truth, is whether he might find out by other means - family member letting things slip/playground gossip getting back to him.

Best of luck in this difficult position.

Thanks very much

I think you need to tell him the truth about where his dad is. If he has been in regular contact for a while, he can't just vanish, that will do more harm than good to your DS.

I'm not sure about visiting, I think when children visit in prison, there is a family room so it would be less scary for him.

A friend of mine's partner is in prison. He was given something like 3 years. At first she wasn't going to tell their 8yr old DD but then realised she had no choice. Their DD went to visit her dad once in prison but at the end of the visit, she left crying and screaming for her dad. It was really heartbreaking for everyone.

Would your DS be happy just to keep in contact by writing to his dad? Maybe you could say the prison is too far away for you to visit.

Its a good idea to wait for sentencing to see exactly how long he will be away for, it might not be as bad as you think. His solicitor should be able to give you a good idea. I hate to say it, but, seeing as this isn't his first time, I doubt it will be the last time, sorry

Yes, I think you are right. I will wait for sentancing and then tell him, but maybe forget about visiting. He can speak to him quite regularly by phone and can write to him.

I spoke to my mum about this today and she said that babies are actually taken out of their buggies and children are searched on the way in not sure I want that for my kids

I worry dd will forget him