How do you deal with "other children"?

[Ozziegirly]

So, three scenarios today. DS (14 months) and I were at the local play area, just us initally. I like to let him explore around rather than hovering over him the whole time.

A group of mums arrive for an exercise class with a varied array of children, probably about 7, ages about 2-5 or 4 or so. ALso in tow were various ride on toys and scooters.

Scenario 1 - DS excitedly chases bigger boy with ride on toy. Boy doesn't want to share (fine) but Mum says he should. I thank boy and say how nice he is and how pleased DS is. Boy and Mum play elsewhere and then Boy's sister(?) arrives and snatches toy from DS and runs off with it. DS; forlorn. I didn't say anything apart from to DS as I figured it wasn't his anyway. Would you have said anything?

Scenario 2 - mums are exercising. DS is playing with swing, not on swing but just swinging it around. Another boy comes up, pushes him out of the way and before I can swoop, has swung into him. DS; tears. I say to boy "That's really not nice behaviour, both pushing my son and swinging into him". He says "well I wanted the swing" - I say to DS "come on, let's play with something else, this little boy doesn't know how to share". Was that too mean or not mean enough?

Scenario 3 - there is a school next to the park.DS excitedly runs up to the fence when they come out to play. Boy of (I guess) 6 immediately tries to kick him through the fence and then pushes him away. DS; tears again. This time I say "WHAT do you think you're doing, pushing a little boy who was only saying hello? WHat is your name and where is your teacher?" "We don't have a teacher" I carry on "You are in trouble, pushing a little boy is very bad behaviour".

Anyway, we left then, too bloody exhausting!

I have never seen such a group of non sharey, snatchy children. I know children don't want to share, but should I just expect my son to be pushed and shoved when other children feel like it? Or am I being horribly PFB about the whole thing?

I get what your saying OP....we have a 13 month old and this is our first child.
I often wonder what the social norms are and the expectations of other parents. I'm interested to see people's responses.

For my inexperienced two cents I would have handled everything the same way as you did, including asking for that last boys teacher.

Well SittingBull I do partly agree with you - I actually think if, when DS is 5 or 6, if he pushed a small 1 year old on purpose because he thought someone wasn't looking, I would fully expect another parent to go in all guns blazing.

I do agree that treating all children as if they are your own is a really good way of looking at it, except that I am quite strict with DS (maybe too strict) when it comes to treating other people nicely.

And I do very much agree that it isn't a reflection on parenting, I know that DS will do horrid things but I hope that firstly I am watching and can reprimand him myself, or that someone else would step in and tell him off.

V interesting actually.

OP - I totally sympathise with you. My dc is a similar age and I am finding these sorts of situation occurring and difficult to know what to do.

The other day at soft play with a friend and her ds, her son kept coming up to mine, snatching toys etc, I just tried to distract my son get him something else to play with etc, then he starts poking my son in the face around the eyes!! My son tries to pull away , my friend says "oh he's only trying to touch his nose", I didn't do anything and my ds managed to get away but looking back I always feel I should have defended my son better.

My son is 13mth and tends to get harassed by other kids a lot when quietly playing with something, when they snatch toys I don't usually take it back because I don't really like to touch the other child to do so if that makes sense - like it seems a bit heavy handed to remove a toy from a child - even if they just took it from my ds.

Sorry this post not much help - just wanted to offer support and say yes it's a minefield and you're not alone. btw, I would probably have acted like you in your scenarios but felt upset afterwards like I'd been a bit wimpish and hadn't helped my ds properly.

Gosh op. I can understand you wanting to protect your ds and I also struggle to know how to deal with random children (mine also pfb few months older than yours). But...

You seem a bit focussed on sharing. Children don't know how to share, they have to be taught (painstakingly) to do it because it makes other people happy.

Do you know other parents with older children? Maybe watching them interact would show you a bit more about how to deal with these sorts of squabbles. Ie taking turns, distracting rather than making a big deal of it.

I know what I'm going to say sounds horrible but what did you hope to achieve by saying "this little boy doesn't know how to share" - you were trying to shame him? Also you told the other boy he was "in trouble", well I'm guessing he wasn't and it got left at that. Its not a great message for him is it? (Sorry just my opinion)

Agree with Albrecht for the most part. Personally in Scenario 1 I think you were right not to say anything, and I wouldn't have either. It wasn't your DSs toy, he had a go, and would have had to give it up in the end anyway. In Scenario 2 I would have led my kid away but not shamed the other kid, just given him one of my 'sharp looks' - I might have also praised my own child once out of earshot for not having been the aggressor. Scenario 3 I wouldn't have asked for the child's name, but said where is your teacher? then when he said 'we don't have a teacher' said 'Well, I will be writing to your head teacher' and would have done so, describing the boy (they shouldn't be right up against the fence interacting with strangers anyway) but I wouldn't have tried to be an authority figure with him, as I clearly wouldn't have any actual authority and I wouldn't know anything about him - whether he had SN for example.

I think when you've got a really tiny one it's easy to forget how tiny a 6 yo still is - you just think of them as being the 'big kid' and defend your own smaller one. But a 6 yo is still quite a tiny person. When yours is 6 years old you will feel just as defensive of him, it doesn't go away

Personally I think that you can give other kids a clear 'stop' instruction i.e. "Don't do that! That is my son and he is littler than you." and then walk away. But you cannot 'label' other people's kids (ie 'that boy doesn't know how to share') or assert your authority over them, because you don't have any.

Thanks for your replies, it's really interesting that those of us with only small ones sympathise and those with older ones think I am probably being a bit hopeful, or harsh. Maybe the mums of the older children are on here going "THere was this small boy and all he wanted to do was play with my children's toys and the swing and my boy lashed out in a moment of frustration"!

I actually think what I am most irritated about is feeling that I am having to semi parents other children because their parents are off doing other things. I always have an eye on DS when we are around younger children and nip any snatching or pushing in the bud immediately, and I guess I hope that others will too, but that's probably a bit hopeful with a 4 year old.

And I agree re sharing - but these children weren't being painstakingly taught anything, they were just running in the park while their mums did exercise.

I like the "Don't do that! That is my son and he is littler than you" - I will use that next time.

Thanks for your thoughts, it's really interesting to get the different perspectives.

Scenario 1. I'd let it go. The sharing was a bonus, the snatching was to be expected.

Scenario 2. I would have said, "Well, you might want to swing, but you have to wait your turn. He was playing with the swing first. Once he is done and it's your turn, you have to be careful. He is very little and you have to make sure he is out of the way when you get on the swing." I'd leave out whether it's nice or not, to me it's not a question of whether it's nice, I define waiting your turn as that's the way it is, not as being nice. I don't think you needed the snarky remark as you left, although I don't think the kid probably cared much.

Scenario 3. I'd probably have reacted about the same.

I don't think you were overly harsh at all OP, but I do think we get better at these situations as our dcs get older, so don't worry. I remember my dd1 just walking aged 14 months being deliberately pushed over by a "big" boy of 2.5 or so - I could not BELIEVE he would do that! But all kids do these things at some point, some more than others, and you just have to keep reinforcing the right way to behave.

My dcs are much older now but this is what I would have said:

Scenario 1: "Don't snatch. You need to ask for the toy, that's good manners." Then distract DS and give the toy back.

Scenario 2: "Don't push, that's not nice. You need to ask if you want a turn." Then depending on how long DS has had the swing you might make the child wait or distract DS right away with something else and let the other child have it.

Scenario 3: I think you did the right thing. A child of that age should not be kicking a little one.

Hope this helps!

If that was my son that had kicked your kid through the fence then I really wish you had gone into the school and told them, because I would want to know, and he would be dealt with and the errors of his way would have been thouroughly explained to him.
Regarding the sharing, turn the scenario around. Would you force your son to share his toy with the other kids if he was using it. What is the point in letting your kid bring a toy to the park if you are only going to make him give it to some other kid to play with!? Fair enough if he wasn't playing with it himself and it was just standing there, but no kid should be forced to share their toy they specifically brought with them to play with, just because "it is good to share"!

I am always bemused by the fact that grown-ups expect young children to share their possessions with strangers. I don't encourage my kids to play with other children's toys in the park at all. I wouldn't let random strangers pick up my phone/ipod/laptop/car.....With that one YABU.

You were not being unreasonable in any way at all to admonish the other badly behaved kids though.

My thing with "sharing" that I kind of do now and intend to continue once DS can understand, is that if you take a toy to the park then other children will be interested and will want to play with it. So any toy taken out he should be willing to share because it's a nice friendly thing to do - the same as if I took some biscuits to the park; I would share them with others.

And then when he does have a go with another toy, I supervise really closely, so he looks after it, and gives it back after a short time.

It is a bit of a minefield though because some children seem to play really nicely in that way; taking turns on the swing etc, and some don't yet.

DS hates relinquishing a swing, but I hope that I am slowly teaching him about taking turns.

It's easy to say though! Bit more difficult to do in reality.

I disagree about having to share toys in the park with others. I might encourage it if someone came over nicely and was interested, but if they didn't want to share it, I wouldn't make them. And I certainly wouldn't expect any other child or parent to share their toys at the park.

Just because you are in public doesn't mean that everything you have is common property. Sharing is nice, not mandatory.

I am very laid back with dd, she's 2, much more so than I was with my ds. My friends and I used to call it mummy rage! Lol... He was very shy and other children snatched a lot! I used to think oh these horrible children to my poor ds! However dd is a totally different kettle of fish and woe betide anyone who snatches off her!!! As your dc grow and you experience diff situations you get better at when to intervene and when not to. Your ds will be 3 one day and possibly snatching off 1 year olds... They all do it.

This is an interesting thread OP! Was on the receiving end of someone trying to get DS to share an activity with their child (dunno why, there was an empty table next to us with same activity on!). Wouldn't have minded but her aggressive "you should share, why don't you share!" at DS who is only 2.6 made me a bit . I totally agree with public property being for sharing but own toys not if the kid is unwilling. Particularly anything that is ride on stuff - I have yet to meet any child that will willingly share a scooter under the age of 3! It must be an unwritten rule in our park but no-one EVER touches anyone else's scooter/bikes/trikes/balls etc or is expected to share them.

Scenario 1 - I would have done nothing, she was taking back her siblings toy and was probably too young to understand how to do that nicely.

Scenario 2 - I would have probably said something similar 'watch out, it's not nice to push' but, again, the older child was probably focused on the swinging rather than being malicious.

Scenario 3 - would have bothered me more. That's just deliberately mean and aggressive behaviour from a child who is old enough to know better. I applaud you for the strength of your response!

I have an 18 month old, 4 and 6 year old if that helps.

I do remember how protective I felt of my eldest in those scenarios though - all the other kids seemed so large and so grown up compared to my baby. I couldn't understand how or why they would be so rough. I am more understanding now of the boisterous/not sharing behaviour but NOT of the deliberate violence you describe in the 3rd scenario.

Agree pretty much with the concensus about your reactions.

few other things i would add;

I wouldnt be expecting parents of 4/5/6 year olds to always be 'watching' or micromanaging their kids in the park. By that age for the majority it is usually safe to assume they are not going to be awful-if they are then the parents will know that about them and most likely will be watching them. The onus pretty much is on the parents of the younger ones; I agree with whoever said earlier that your child wasnt actually 'using' the swing and you should have moved him so that the older child could swing in the swing. Quite often also, the parents of 4/5/6 year olds also have littler ones that they are also herding/trying to protect.

I would not ever think that I had to semi-parent other peoples kids whilst in a park like situation; that way madness lies!! Take the example here about whether toys you take to the park should be shared with strangers-very very opposing points of view from parents. It is not your responsibility to manage the behaviour of other peoples kids, concentrate on your own

I'm in the park all the time. The sharing thing, kids don't like to share, I hate it it when people bring their child's complete Bob the builder with all diggers set, a group of children always gather and it turns into a nightmare.

The pushing kind of goes with the territory to some extent. Both my Ds's have shoved and been shoved, I've been pulled up by 2 mothers on 2 seperate occasions when the boys have pushed or poked their child. Both occasions I was with Ds, first time Ds1 was really young, and the mum kept banging on about what a rude boy he was, we left the park and I was really upset.

2nd time with Ds2, he pushed a little girl, though not hard. Ds2 apologised (At 2 it's more for the mum's sense of justice) She kept muttering so I went and told her to get over it, no one was hurt and all kids do it. She got the right knock about her little girl, who was fine and more upset that her mum was ranting, she didn't like it when I pointed that out either.

Agree that as your kid gets older and bigger, he will shove and be shoved and do lovely and horrible things, sometimes you'll see and sometimes you won't. No child's better or worse than another, just learning things in their own way, or waiting to be shown. Though saying that, I'm always bollocking my own and other peoples kids.

Just realised that post makes me sound a touch mental! I didn't square up to lady in park, she was stood next to me going on and on about a minor shove, the kids were playing together, so I said I thought she needed to get over it!

And the bollokings I dispense are when I see a child about to get hurt or any bullying stuff,.

Ds1 getting up at 04.00 and my head's all raddled.

I think bejeezus is correct in saying that older children should be gaining more independence in parks and play areas - it is a normal part of growing up.

Also one poster mentioned that adults don't have authority over other children. I disagree with this as I think, especially in situations like this, that the adult has to assume some kind of authority especially if there are no parents/guardians/teachers nearby. Children are immature and need watching out for and I think it is normal for a child to respect an adult and have to respond to what they say especially when it comes to safety.
I certainly teach my children to do as requested by other adults whether that is their teacher or our next door neighbour.

I'm not sure I would have encouraged my children when small to play with other children's toys. I think that has the potential to open up a whole can of worms. I didn't expect them to share stuff they brought either, although it would really have just been a bike/scooter (which would sadly probably have been chained up if they weren't playing with them) or stuff to play in the sandpit., which I'd leave them to share if they wanted to (but I wouldn't encourage because I think the chances of losing stuff or getting into arguments is a bit too high). Plenty of time to learn about sharing when friends are visiting, or with each other, and it is a very hard lesson for many children.

With the swing I'd have tried very hard to keep my two away at that age (or in the seat with me pushing) because they are dangerous for smalls, but I guess if the park wasn't busy that might not have been an issue? The other child obviously wasn't very nice an I can see why you were upset, but that one is probably quite likely to happen again. Swings are often the most popular play equipment and if your kid wasn't actually swinging then many children might well think it was up for grabs.

Final child was obviously being mean, and I can understand why you might have snapped, but one of the first rules of parenting is not to say things you can't/don't intend to follow through. Fine to tell off and say that he was being unkind, but unless you actually intend to do somethign not much point telling him he was in trouble, because he wasn't.

Sorry you had such a bad day though! ds used to tag older children on a fairly frequent basis, even when they made it clear they wanted him to go away. It was upsetting when they were a bit mean, but he wouldn't take no for an answer and I think they just got fed up (his worst encounters were with his little sister though!)

I wouldn't expect a child to share their own toys with DS in the situation you have described in scenario 1. You were not being expected to parent someone else's children either, your child imposed himself on the older child's game. You should have taken something to entertain him. You really can't expect children to willingly share with a much younger child, although it's nice when they do.

Scenario 2 - if it was a toddler swing YANBU but the snipy comment was completely out of line. That is the sort of thing you think not say. If it was a proper swing your toddler shouldn't have been playing with it anyway.

Scenario 3 - I would have just said "that wasn't very nice was it?" to the child and removed DS from the immediate area.

Bit of a diversion but there are some interesting views about swings and what constitutes 'proper' use of them. Why shouldn't a child enjoy pushing the swing, rather than sitting in it? I'm not sure I agree that only sitting in a swing is a legitimate use of it. Of course if there's a serious safety risk e.g. pushing a swing very hard, then maybe not, but if they're just gently pushing it the worst that will happen is they'll end up getting knocked over.

I agree zimbah about the swing--why can't there be more than one way to play with it, and why should one way take priority? I remember one time my DS and DD were at the park with their teddies, and swinging the teddies in the swings, I was on the bench watching. A dad came along with a toddler and unceremoniously yanked my DS's teddy out, shoved it at him and put his little one in the swing without a word. Clearly one of the 'one proper use' believers!