What do I say to ds1's best friend's parents?

[MerryMarigold]

Ds1 ADORES a little boy who is...ermmm...challenging in behaviour. He has very little respect for adults - or other kids. He is very bright, dominating/ a 'leader' and totally leads ds1 (just 6) and others astray. I THINK his behaviour is a combination of his character and the way his Mum treats him (like a friend more than a parent). He seems to have no boundaries. Once he used the 'f' word walking home from school to ours and I told him I would have to tell his Mum, which I did. She just said, "Oh no, you shouldn't use that word". I've never really seen her tell him off or give him any form of discipline/ consequence for behaviour which is out of order.

Today was ds1's party. They had a few minutes upstairs to play whilst waiting for everyone to arrive. I overheard this child say, "Let's make a huge mess." I said, "I heard that ...., you'd better NOT do that (menacing voice)." Anyway, went downstairs to prepare the first game and deal with someone driving to us who was lost. Next thing I know the kids upstairs are going MENTAL. Most of these kids are really nice, well brought up kids who wouldn't dream of behaving this way, throwing stuff around, making an ALMIGHTY mess in ds1's room and his siblings' room. Even when I brought them down, they were totally riled up, screaming and running around. It was hideous for a bit. I can't totally blame him, but I did ask ds1 where it started and he said this boy's name. The others followed and before long, they were all going mad. Later when the party was over, he kept trying to go upstairs despite the fact I'd said no more going upstairs.

Ds1 loves this boy, and there is no way I can avoid him or steer him to others. He does also help ds1 as he's so bright and kind of pulls ds1 along with him in good ways too. Plus I don't want to be such a controlling parent as to sabotage their friendship. So, the friendship is on though I keep trying to bring other kids into ds1's life (he doesn't seem interested unfortunately). Do I bring the party up with his Mum? What do I say?

If all the children (including yours) were involved in the party incident, there's no way you can tell his mother her son caused it without causing huge offence. So no, I don't think you should mention it.

IME any large group, if children let loose upstairs, unsupervised would make an almighty mess. And at a party it wouldn't be unusual for a group of six yos to be "riled up, screaming and running around." so you are being very harsh to blame this incident on one particular boy, even (or maybe especially) if he does have form.

OK. I won't bring it up! Not sure I'm being that harsh tho. It wasn't the only incident from him today. There's been 2 other parties this term with pretty much the same group (minus this boy) and they've just gone upstairs and played a bit of lego for a bit. That combined with the comment "Let's make a huge mess" was what led me to 'blame' him (for starting it, it's just as bad to join in with wrong things). It's been fine at other's houses and not the LEVELS of riled up and screaming, but maybe my house has that vibe! Thanks for advice about causing offence. I would want to know if my son hadn't behaved well at a party, but it's pretty hard to hear and bring up.

Don't bring it up with his mum.

For the time he's in your charge he's under your discipline and you didn't control him. They threatened to make a mess and you went off, even though you sort of knew there could be trouble. Sorry, I think he's boundary testing you and you aren't doing very well.

Had the little boy been violent or been mean to your son then I might say you must tell his mother, but swearing and mess aren't enough.

And, yes, what would you say? You aren't bringing your son up well? I don't think that's on. If you had a particular gripe with how he relates to your son, bullying him or whatever, then OK. But does this boy's swearing affect you? Really?

I know it's annoying when DC have naughty friends. DS1 has a wild friend who I dread having round but whatever I said to his mother is hardly likely to have significant impact on the boy's behaviour. I just have to watch them closely and choose activities that are mainly outside.

Thanks Lemon. We did have some bullying last year, and I spoke to his Mum though more to say, "They are having problems". I think you're right about the boundary testing. How do I overcome that? I had an 'incident' with him in the playground last week where he wouldn't let my son through to go home and then wouldn't let me past. He told me to "use the other gate" and I said "I don't want to use the other gate. Please can you move.". He said, "No". I said, "If you don't move, I'll have to move you and your bike" (he was blocking our path on it, he's 6 FGS) and he said, "I'm not moving", so I had to pick him and the bike up enough to just shift him so we could get through. I am just not used to having to do this (my ds1 would have moved the first time, or on a bad day, after the threat). What would you have done?

'I overheard this child say, "Let's make a huge mess." I said, "I heard that ...., you'd better NOT do that (menacing voice)."'

He's 6, he rose to the challenge.
You knew he would be a handful and you didn't cope with him well, poor supervision and too much time on his hands. If you spoke to his mother, she probably wouldn't be surprised at the outcome.
He's going to need more skilled disciplinarians and guidance to learn self-control, let's hope the school are on top of it.

Not your child so I wouldn't touch child or bike! If this happened at school I would have got a teacher to deal with it. If a child was rude to me they wouldn't be coming to my house. End of!

Wolfie, was well after school finished (they are allowed to stay in playground for a while). Child was not with parent, otherwise would have gone to her, being picked up by a friend. Maybe should have gone to her, but felt a bit rubbish going to 'tell'.

Downbytheriverside. "He's 6, he rose to the challenge". Wow! I am not a teacher. I don't know any kids who would do that if an adult, especially not their parent, said something "You'd better not" in the tone of voice I used. But I am obv. very naive.

Is this really my problem? What am I doing wrong?

I do sympathise - other people's children can be a nightmare! He sounds a handful. But I don't really think you'll get very far by speaking to his mum or the school would have done it by now.

Instead, could you try a bit of 'Actually I mean this so give me some respect'? Maybe choose an outing you wouldn't be bothered about cutting short. Say that the boys will be going home if there is any bad behaviour. Give them/him one warning. Then take them home.

You've brought your DS1 up well and you aren't used to tougher kids!

You've done it all right... and this is your punishment

DS1 was friends with a boy like this, and in our case not really many other friends at school only 3 in his year group. I knew ds would play with him at school but I didn't allow any time together out of school.

This childs Mother has never told him off and is so ineffectual as a parent.

Too much time on his hands! This happend in 5 mins, probably less. Am I in AIBU?!!!

'Too much time on his hands! This happend in 5 mins, probably less. Am I in AIBU?!!!'

You are in AIBU, but talking to a teacher.

It may be that he has other issues........
...but,as you've pointed out the positives in the relationship between him and your son,then maybe it would be better to focus on them.It's hard to connect with a child who displays challenging behaviour but if your son enjoys his company and doesn't really show any signs of copying that behaviour,it would be a shame to try and break up the friendship.
Adopt the 'My house,my rules' approach when he comes to play,and explain that if he can't stick to your house rules then he can't play.Tell him if a mess is made upstairs then they have to play downstairs etc etc.He may even respond to the boundaries that you set-doesn't sound like he has them at home!

And what LemonDifficult said. You are projecting how your own delightful child would respond onto another, completely different child.
Your wrecked bedrooms are the consequence.

Thanks for the advice Lemon. That's a really good idea. Even something simple like the park, where I can try and teach him that he doesn't mess with me. I'd like them to have a friendship, but I do need to assert a bit of authority. I am also becoming a bit wiser to him now (thanks to you guys). I think ds1 is also a different character, he's just basically a big softie so he's a bit 'easier' to discipline.

Ooh I dunno OP you're sounding a bit U to me! The other kids are well brought up so this dragged up little monster has set them all on a path of destruction! :) I know (hope?) that's not how you mean to come across but it's how I'm reading it!

On another note, is it really so unusual for a bunch of 6 year olds at a party to be riled up? You would HATE my house on party days...20 children going native for a few hours!

Downbytheriverside (by the way, one of my fav songs). Of course I am projecting my own delightful child onto him. He's the child I know best! And of his other friends, I can't imagine any of them ignoring the voice I used. But in hindsight I should have hauled him (and others) downstairs immediately.

To be honest, newbiedoobiedoo, it was the other parents' faces (of beautifully brought up kids!) which upset me more than the mess. (There were other parents there who had younger kids who were at the party). I just felt the "you-really-can't-handle-these-kids-can-you!". I would happily let them go a bit native (and it was fairly wild, that I can handle), but throwing toys around is getting a well out of hand.

That not letting you and your DS through the gate thing is very odd and a bit concerning behaviour imo. It's pretty unusual for a child to be quite so challenging to another parent, isn't it? (Or am I just hopelessly out of touch? ). I would struggle to want to have him in my house if he had behaved like that with me.
If I was that boys mum and knew that he was behaving like that with other people I would be very concerned (the fact that she doesn't seem to be could be part of the problem).
But....that doesn't really help you.
To be honest, I would do my best to support your DS in making friendships with other children and distance himself from that child.

mmmm...I didn't mention the gate thing to her. Maybe that's the one I should bring up over a coffee or something. I have no idea how to disentangle his relationship with ds, my love for ds, his behaviour, my relationship with his Mum (we are friends, she's a lovely woman). He's quite a complicated boy though!

Ah but see, there's the crux of it; the parents who had YOUNGER kids...you can bet your bottom dollar those expressions will be wiped clean off when their little darlings hit that age!

They shouldn't have messed up your house, not at all. But at a party you're so busy making sure everything runs smoothly, guests are happy, children aren't killing themselves or each other it's nigh on impossible to control their behaviour on top!

He's more wild than what you're used to so I think the idea of asserting your authority more is the best way to go. If he is benefiting your ds on the whole then he's good to have around. You can't teach him a lot as you're not his parent but you CAN teach him to respect you and your rules in your home! :)

'That not letting you and your DS through the gate thing is very odd and a bit concerning behaviour imo. It's pretty unusual for a child to be quite so challenging to another parent, isn't it?'

Testing boundaries again, working out what is possible and what isn't.
So by not letting him take charge, you did the right thing. It's one of the many areas that makes discipline in a primary class...interesting.

newbie, they have older kids too who were at the party! But their kids are 'the good ones' in school!

riverside, is the testing boundaries to that extent common?

In reception and Y1, depending on where you teach fairly common to having one or two in a class.
In good schools, they learn how to function as a member of a wider social group rather than just in their family. It's why some SN linked to behaviour are harder to pick up before 7, for a lot of children it is a phase they grow through.
By Y6 it's only the really challenging ones that are still going, or those with identifiable SN.

I'd call it uncommon, 1 or 2 in 30 kids. So, maybe not surprising that it's all new to me. But I genuinely do like this boy, and his parents are lovely, but (imo) not strict enough. He's VERY clever/ advanced/ mature, so maybe it all goes with the territory.