What do I say to ds1's best friend's parents?

[MerryMarigold]

Ds1 ADORES a little boy who is...ermmm...challenging in behaviour. He has very little respect for adults - or other kids. He is very bright, dominating/ a 'leader' and totally leads ds1 (just 6) and others astray. I THINK his behaviour is a combination of his character and the way his Mum treats him (like a friend more than a parent). He seems to have no boundaries. Once he used the 'f' word walking home from school to ours and I told him I would have to tell his Mum, which I did. She just said, "Oh no, you shouldn't use that word". I've never really seen her tell him off or give him any form of discipline/ consequence for behaviour which is out of order.

Today was ds1's party. They had a few minutes upstairs to play whilst waiting for everyone to arrive. I overheard this child say, "Let's make a huge mess." I said, "I heard that ...., you'd better NOT do that (menacing voice)." Anyway, went downstairs to prepare the first game and deal with someone driving to us who was lost. Next thing I know the kids upstairs are going MENTAL. Most of these kids are really nice, well brought up kids who wouldn't dream of behaving this way, throwing stuff around, making an ALMIGHTY mess in ds1's room and his siblings' room. Even when I brought them down, they were totally riled up, screaming and running around. It was hideous for a bit. I can't totally blame him, but I did ask ds1 where it started and he said this boy's name. The others followed and before long, they were all going mad. Later when the party was over, he kept trying to go upstairs despite the fact I'd said no more going upstairs.

Ds1 loves this boy, and there is no way I can avoid him or steer him to others. He does also help ds1 as he's so bright and kind of pulls ds1 along with him in good ways too. Plus I don't want to be such a controlling parent as to sabotage their friendship. So, the friendship is on though I keep trying to bring other kids into ds1's life (he doesn't seem interested unfortunately). Do I bring the party up with his Mum? What do I say?

Sorry, I'm a bit pissed so not as coherent as possible. In some classes, you can have a third of them exhibiting challenging behaviour to adults when they are first at school. Then the majority come to some sort of accommodation with the rules, but it is hard work and a slow process in some cases. If boundaries are not a feature of their home lives, it makes it more difficult. After holidays especially.

You're inspiring me to go and get some wine! How did you come up with your NN? I know you've been around a while...

Been around for ages, I started as a Goblin and changed a time or two. Got fed up with arguing and battling, so now I'm peacefully Downbythe Riverside.

I'm drinking mulled wine, takes me a month or two to get the right recipe for Christmas.

JaredtheGoblinKing was it? mmmmm...mulled wine. I'm gonna lay down my burden down by the riverside. Don't get too burdened now, will ya. I just use those shwartz thingies.

No, Jareth is a different person.
I've got a lot of recipes I've tried over the years, so I try them all again in November to see which one I feel like for the festivities. Several of them involve fruit or spirits or both.

Oh yeah, Jareth. Mulled wine hobby, that'll be the first once the younger ones can sort their own breakfasts out.

OP I think you should def not raise this with the Mum. You heard him say one comment and admit that all of the children were acting up but are blaming it on this one child which seems very unfair to me. I find that children do bounce of one another but this sort of rowdiness at a party is fairly normal if the kids are being left to their own devices, which is sounds like they were. This 6 year old is not responsible for the behaviour of other children in your house, YOU are and if you suspected there may be trouble you should have been keeping a closer eye.

not sure why ur blaming this child - sounds like reasonably normal six yr old behaviour at party, in crowd and unsupervised. yes some kids are more challenging behaviourally thanothers - but knowing that, hearing what he said you let him off -tbh given that he's six and ur the adult I'd be holding u more responsible for mess than anyone...

Merry, I think every child pushes the boundaries, if his mum isn't providing him with any, but you are then he is going to push against you! Also, to me the incident at the gate seems like a power struggle to me, he wanted to be in control of you.

Lay out v simple ground rules for when he does come to your house and I have a rule, if a bedroom gets trashed by kids on a play date, its all stop 15 mins before the end to tidy up. All who help get a chocolate gold coin. Its amazing how less inclined they are to mess up the room if they have to tidy it!!

Good Luck!

MerryMarigold,

You have my sympathy, your DS' friend sounds like a handful and he clearly has no boundaries. My dcs have had friends like that over the years. I have found that only way to cope with having them in my house is to stick to my house rules and deal firmly with any misbehaviour. I think you SHOULD tell his mum if necessary, and do it as soon as possible after the event. I don't think the boy would be worried about you threatening to tell his mum, as it sounds like she wouldn't deal with his behaviour in any case, but hearing from you what he has done might motivate her to do something about her son before it's too late.

You'll know for the next party not to let them play upstairs. I would have made them all tidy up before the party could continue, and if the boy refused, I would have phoned his mum to take him home. I did used to worry that dcs wouldn't want to come and play with my dcs if I disciplined them, but they always do want to come. It's a cliche, but children actually like boundaries.

I would be mortified if one of my dcs spoke to any adult like he did to you at the gate. I would want to know about it, no question. I would also have physically moved him out of the way, as you did, and then hauled him over to his mum and told her exactly how rude and disrespectful he had been. I would also tell him that unless he behaves nicely, he will not be allowed to play at your house anymore. You say he's a bright kid so he will learn your way pretty fast I would think!

I'd probably just "phase him out" if I were you but wouldn't mention this episode.

I would blame the other children too, tbh, for their part in the misbehaviour. If it were my child misbehaving at a party I wouldn't want to think that the hostess was excusing him just because some other child suggested it.

zest01 and ll31, I am not purely blaming him for the mess at all. As I said in the OP, there were other children involved. And I did leave them up there for a few minutes whilst sorting something out, so have to accept responsibility for that bit. Tbh it wasn't the mess that bothered me (didn't take that long to clear up), but the fact I'd said he shouldn't deliberately mess (ie. throw stuff about as opposed to playing a bit and making some mess), and he did it anyway. Plus the fact that he clearly motivated the kids to get riled up and not listen (at other times too) - run off in the middle of a game at another time despite being asked to stay in the room. And the fact he spoiled a guessing game by telling people the answers despite being asked not to. And kept going upstairs when I'd asked him not to. I think he was over excited. But it was persistent misbehaviour.

kickarse and elfiro, those are really helpful posts. Thanks! The control thing is a big thing with him, that's a great insight kickarse. I think he plays to ds1 because he can control him quite easily compared to some others (ds1 is just that kind of kid). His Mum has mentioned that to me, so she is aware he likes to control play etc.

You could be talking about my DS but he was not at a party. My DS will test every situation/teacher etc to the limit to establish the boundaries. First day in reception my DS was kept in at playtime by his experienced teacher and DS told me he was finding out what he could get away with!! He went on to have a great year. Next year with an NQT who never established the boundaries satisfactorily he did nothing!

I would not speak to the mother, she will be well aware and there may be far more going on than you are aware of with assessments etc as it is not something most people broadcast. She may well be picking her battles as I do. I would certainly not make a big fuss about a swear word or I could guarantee it would be in every sentence in my absence in the future. Far better to play such things down and focus on fighting and consistency of rules and consuquences.

Those who suggest not allowing your DS to play with him, that works for out of school but my DS has been barred from seeing his best friend who sounds like your DS for 2 years but it has only driven them closer together at school. This is despite the successful request to be in separate classes. Personally I expect them to be meeting up secretly once he is older and has more freedom as knowing it is forbidden will make it more wanted like anything. The only way to prevent the friendship is to move away/change schools.

That's interesting, dollsteaparty. Thanks. I was thinking of asking for separate classes next year, but maybe it won't solve anything. I have put him to packed lunch instead of school dinner so they see less of each other (as packed lunch eat first and school dinner Y1's have to wait for Reception to eat), which has helped a little in him playing with others. But his heart is very much with this boy. It seems to help ds not get in this boy's nerves as much though, which is good, and also gives this boy the chance to play with/ control others.

Also you may find that the other mum becomes aware you have asked for separate classes as was our case but your school may not do as you request which would be even more awkward for you.

I will ask the teacher what she thinks first anyway, as she is a good teacher and by the end of the year she will certainly have their relationship sussed.

I think in some ways the Mum may be relieved if they are separated as my ds1's intensity/ love/ loyalty can get annoying for the other boy (even though he does use and abuse it!) and then lead to issues where the other child is mean/ hitting ds1 to try to get him to leave him alone.

Re assessments, do you think he is having assessments OP? Or is it simply a case of full-on child combined with mum who can't/won't set boundaries?

Fair enough to be sensitive about it, but if it were me I would want my own dcs to see that I set boundaries in my house for every child. My dcs will now tell others the house rules - not anything huge, just things like ask before you take anything to eat or drink, respect property etc.

I don't think you can or should try to avoid this boy as your ds obviously wants to be friends with him, but you will have to make sure he listens to you in your house. I think his mum would accept that - it's not unreasonable.

'ds1's intensity/ love/ loyalty can get annoying for the other boy (even though he does use and abuse it!) and then lead to issues where the other child is mean/ hitting ds1 to try to get him to leave him alone'

We have had this situation but with 2 6 yr-old girls - except the balance of power has reversed somewhat this year. Dd's friend was getting too rough with her and I did recently talk to the mum. Frankly, I would really, really, hesitate to do that again. The mum and I were good friends but things are very cool now . I think in future I would just talk to the school, and deal with it myself out of school.

No, I don't think he's having assessments. Our school are quite laidback and something like this wouldn't become an issue until maybe Y3.

Yes, the rules being for my kids and others in our house is a good one. I think we need to get to the point of having 'rules' for ourselves. Being obedient to adults and being kind to each other, but prob needs spelling out more to my kids, as well as others.