I am desperate and don't know what to do

[cheekymonk]

I am having massive problems with my 6 year old son and feel our family is in real crisis. He has always been challenging but lately, both dh and i seem to have lost all control with him. He shouts, throws tantrums and hits. He frequently laughs in our face when asked to do something and has so much attitude. Today, as I was changing dd's nappy he was smacking me hard on the bum. The other night he called me fatty. I am more worried about my reaction. I am normally placid but I found he pushes me so hard and just now after 1 hour of trying to put him to bed and him playing up, waking up his dd I put my hand over his mouth and squeezed his cheeks to shut him up. He became hysterical and accused me of trying to kill him. I know this is abuse and I am needing to rely on physical force to get him to take any notice of me. It is just awful and I hate myself for the damage I must be doing to him. I have told him i hate him twice in the last 6 months and just feel like the worst Mum in the world.
His refusal to go to bed and night wakings started off all the negativity really. He seems to think he is the worst person in the world and is very scared of witches and the supernatural. he sucks his thumb and cradles a teddy which I think is abnormal for an almost 7 year old? He seems super sensitive to all the bad in the world and is full of anger and anxiety.
My husband tries army routines with ds. making him walk up and down the road etc. DS gets upset saying his daddy doesn't care about him, noone loves him etc. it is all such a mess. Most of the time I am a good mum but I just handle it all wrong when he starts pushing me. When I keep my cool and ignore his lashing out he does calm down and tell me the problem but when I am tired from both kids waking up in the night, I just can't always keep it. We have docs appt on tues as ds has been asking for a doctor. he says he wishes he was like his friends who aren't as clever as him and that he wishes he could switch his brain off. He has said he hated himself too. I know you will all think my reaction has started this thinking off but it was there beforehand but of course my anger has only made things worse. I just want to heal my family and make us functional again...

www.amazon.com/Guided-Meditation-Children-Journey-Elements/dp/B000G5SB4Q

this looks a lovely one...

Again, I understand about the anger, I was an angry little kid - it has changed! I'm a fairly peaceful adult now.

Where do you think he gets the belief that all effort has to be constantly acknowledged from? I think that's a sign of a bright child - and one who is enthusiastic, but it can stop enjoyment of things for their own sake...maybe try talking to him about football and tell him that it's about running around and having fun, not always being rewarded...

I think you sound like a lovely mum - you are trying your hardest to understand your child - I think that difficult children often grow up into the most interesting adults.....so, I'm sure you have lots to look forward to as you all work out a way for him to be happy with his talents and energies...

I know you said you and your DH will look at how to change your own behaviour, and that's great. But in response to your last post...that post is all about changing your son. Yet in your OP you said that he behaves well at school, but not at home. You also described some of your own behaviour which, let's face it, is getting out of control. If anyone grabbed my face now, as an adult, like you did to your son, I'd be scared and would fight back. I'm guessing that that's not the only time that you or perhaps your DH have lost it. So in a way Apocalypse is right to say "that poor kid"; it's quite possible that some of the time he's scared with you around.

So if I were you I would start with myself, not my child. It's very easy to get into bad habits without realising, and naturally our children respond to this. It's very liberating when you realise as a parent: I have created this situation by doing x, y and z, so now I know I can find a way to fix it. IME changing the parent's habits first is a helluva lot more effective.

For fantastic ideas that WORK, try reading How To Talk So Kids Will Listen. It's become a sort of Bible in our house, we always refer back to if to get us out of bad habits.

Re TV, how much does he watch? IME more than 1 hour (yes, 1 hour! ) on a daily basis has a noticeable effect. Also do you watch with him - do you know what's going into his mind? We can't watch with them all the time but I believe it's important to make TV watching a shared activity - as they get older they'll want to watch programmes which you think are unsuitable, and how will you deal with that in a constructive way?

If he finds TB scary he should not be watching it. End of. As for the playground tales, grr. Nothing you can do about that. But you can work hard to ensure that he, and his siblings, feel safe at home.

Finally I think you all need to have fun together. Play silly games as a family twice a week. Reconnect.

I disagree. Saying I will try the safety cuddle is changing MY behaviour. I have said I know I have to change. The fact he behaves at school, tells me it is all dh and I problem.The last post is stating some of the things I have thought about doing. I have changed my approach constantly until we got ds in a routine for going to bed. Dh did not follow it last night, which caused part of the resistance. Dh feels like the routine we do, locking up, spraying the room with air freshener (witch repellant), herbal sleeping tablet, hot water bottle, bath and story and sitting on top of stairs next to his room is all too much. It is a lot considering bath story bed used to work but he seems to need it and if it works I will do it. Dh not being on board with it has caused arguments.
If I was that scary, why does he repeat the behaviour and continue to push??? I know thats a stupid thing to say... I have got how to talk so kids will listen and when I tried it, it worked.
Sometimes though, alot of these approaches leave me feeling very unempowered and like ds is just walking all over me. My sister stayed with me and said how little respect he has for us. It was partly that which made us wake up to how bad things had got.
He does watch about 2 hours. i am usually in the room.

mm.. its difficult.
Part of the problem can be not wanting to trigger a huge inconvenient tantrum and to keep him happy he has too much his own way and can end up in charge.
You have to say no to excess inconvenience but in a calm way.
He might react initially but then realise you are in charge.
Spraying air freshener I don't think I would do personally... it might seem as if you believe in witches etc yourselves and not that healthy at night time.

OP - re. the anger - a couple of books I have found helpful.....

www.amazon.co.uk/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Marshall-Rosenberg/dp/1892005034

The idea explained in this book is to look at where anger comes from - ie. normally from a fear of some kind......there is a version for using with children as well. I think if you can see your sons anger as a way of communicating (badly) a fear it might help - and he can also learn to try to communcate differently.

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1892005093/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1892005034&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1HFG4BJH6NAV7QB13HMR

It sounds as though your husband resents the need your son has for extra safety and security/ comfort - is that a 'masculine' thing? ie. he doesn't think a boy should 'need' that level of comforting at night. But with a child who is easily scared, being pushed onwards is going to make it worse - whereas, if you can acknowledge the fear, it will eventually vanish.

Perhaps your partner needs to be reassured that this ritual won't last forever - it's not 'spoiling ' your son - it's making him feel safe, so that after a while, he will self settle...

one other thought - have you tried the 'bored policeman' approach? I read somewhere that rather than emotionally engaging with tantrums - you simply pretend you are a policeman, dealing with rowdy football fans. You are bored by the naughty behaviour, not upset by it. You punish quickly and fairly - and don't allow the child to see that you are at all upset. They don't get a rise out of you but they do get punished swiftly - and fairly of course.

Yes, I did acknowledge at the start of my last post that you had previously said you were going to consider your role. So don't think I'm trying to attack you or anything; you've asked for help and I'm reflecting back what I think is your son's perspective.

Wrt to safety cuddle thing, yes, it's about changing your tactic, but I'm referring more to the underlying causes of the problem - safety cuddle on its own implies that the problem is your son's anger. I think something else is causing the anger, and perhaps you need to give us more background information if you want help working that bit out? Unless he is a child with 'abnormal' behavioural or developmental issues requiring professional support (and you haven't indicated this) it sounds like a fairly normal family situation which has got out of hand.

Fantastic that you have How To Talk and you find that it works. Although you said you feel like when you use their techniques you feel that he's walking all over you. You also said earlier that you're usually 'placid' - which sounds like you're not being firm. Perhaps that's one part of the problem. Reading between the lines I'm guessing that your DH is towards the other end of the spectrum - more authoritarian, perhaps. What do you think? If so I'd say that you both need to come somewhere nearer the centre. What can happen when one parent is 'soft' and the other is 'hard' is that the child basically bites back. It's confusing for the child, and overwhelming at times, and also they know that they can get away with certain things so they try and push those boundaries.

In a way I think we could have allowed our family situation to end up deteriorating similarly to yours, because I recognise some of what you're saying - excessively elaborate bedtime routines, etc. It comes to a point where your child is taking you for a ride, but from experience I would say that's because you've allowed him to. This is why I was suggesting that you reflect on your role first, and I think your DH is right to refuse to comply with this bedtime routine which you've instituted - it is ridiculous, and unnecessary. I say this not as a criticism, but from experience! You need to tell your DS that you are going to bring in a new and improved approach to bedtime and discipline/ whatever. If he asks why, it's enough to say 'because I say so'. Surprisingly, most young kids seem to accept this!

With us, once we realised that one parent was inadvertently perpetuating the absurd bedtime situation (I won't say which parent it was ! ) we started to work out who was going to be the best person to sort it out. The approach we used was quiet but firm. No engaging with the problem at all - whatever our DC said to try and get one over us, we'd just reply 'It's sleeptime now' and ignore all the other crap. It seems to be working so far...

IMO it's worth both you and DH trying 'How To Talk' with a 'quiet but firm' approach. It sounds as though both of you are losing control in different ways, and feeling lost and helpless. 'Quiet but firm' helps you to keep control of yourself, which means you can think more clearly in the situation and you should be able to handle it better. Then, as you know, How To Talk will give you tools to manage your son.

Re son's anger... Well DH was in the Navy when he was born up until he was about 5. I was very isolated and struggled with DS's behaviour then. Looking back, as I have been much more laid back with dd, he definitely picked up on my stress. He settled at nursery well and enjoyed the groups I took him to. Everyone has always commented on how confident he is and how many friends he has.. Its only the last 6 months this seems to have changed and he seems far less self assured and more insecure. This coincides with birth of dd. My Mum treated ds as if dd wasn't here, giving him lots of reassurance and overcompensating. She since realised she was missing out on dd and ds has found this sudden less attention understandably hard to take. The family as a whole seem to prefer dd and let that be known. I had to constantly correct my sister when she stayed for praising dd but saying nothing about ds. My in laws are clearly thrilled to have a grand-daughter but find ds difficult and have commented that I 'am bringing him up differently to how they did'. O course he must pick up on all this but we see them all so little I don't think it is the major cause.
Re bedtime, DS has us by the balls because he knows we don't want him to wake his sister! Hence agreeing to all the demands. I agree air freshener is not great at night. It is a dettol air neutraliser one. I'm trying to acknowledge his fear as , someone said earlier 'there are no witches' route really did not work.
Have not tried bored policeman approach, I don't think! Have tried so much, its hard to remember!
DS needs a lot of love and acceptance which I think he feels he is not getting at home or school ('dd is the only one who loves me') He had a close friend at nursery but has never had that one best mate since. The kids in our road can be quite mean and I do have to tell them off occasionally.
DH and I are going to get our heads together and go through each scenario our ds presents us with and agree on the approach. He is too hard and I am too soft so the middle option should be the right one.
Thank you for all your constructive comments everyone xx

Re air freshener / witch repellent. Bach Flower Remedies can work a treat with children. They do have a night time remedy and mimilus is for fear. You can get these from Boots. Put some drops in his water at night and talk to him about fear of unknown things, address as a real fear and talk to him about the bravery drops you have put in his water which he can sip if he feels scared. Giving him control over his fears could help. BTW, I also use "calm down" essence when I need to get perspective on a situation and you could also look into some of the other Bach Flower remedies which might help.

Thanks MistyB THAT SOUNDS INTERESTING. i AM TORN BETWEEN HOW MUCH COMFORT i NEED TO GIVE DS AND HOW MUCH I need to ensure he is not taking the mickey!

Well, this new info totally changes the picture! It sounds as though all of you, but especially your DS, have been under a lot of emotional pressure for quite some time. Perhaps one of those pressures is him having to get used to having a dad, and not any dad but one who is getting used to being a present dad for the first time in 5 years?

Anyway I think you can see quite clearly all the strains your DS has been under for the last 12-18 months, and especially the last 6. How frustrating that your mother effectively withdrew herself (and, in his eyes, her love) like that! What on earth was she thinking? One thing we found with love-bombing a child who has a new sibling is that you may not see instantaneous results but you have to have faith that it is working. It took us about a year before DC1 really settled after the birth of DC2.

Well, I wish you luck with your planning with DH. I hope he is suitably receptive to your suggestions, that he comes up with good ideas of his own; and I wish you clarity and insight as you work out how best to move forwards as a family.

You might also get some help in forces sweethearts about how to deal with the changes when a parent has been away alot in the early years, then returns.

just quick comment.. as I'm sure you've already thought yourself, ds is having to share you with both a new dd being "dethroned" and his dad
i feel your pain and all the best xx

My ds was challenging when he was growing up (16 now). It was harder once I had dd there is a 7 year age gap. I did a parenting course and it did help me understand (sometimes) why he was mis-behaving. Both his primary and secondary school were excellent really supportive don't know if you could ask at school for help .All I can say is don't give up . My ds has just got 3 a*,4A's and 4B's in his GCSE's. I now that seems a long time off but I can remember feeling just like you I didn't know what he would do next and how I would deal with it. He also had to deal with me and his dad splitting up when he was 11 which didn't help.
I'm still shocked sometimes I survived it all!!

Is there any way you could engage him to help out with his little sister?
If he is bright and starting to read you could look at baby books together, and talk to him about how you did all that for him when he was a baby, as mummies need to look after babies as they are so helpless, but as they grow they can do things. For instance he could bring the nappies for a change, and help get his sister to sleep? then praise him for being helpful, or if he observes something about the baby, praise him for good noticing and being perceptive, this way he feels positive interaction with you.

It would also be good if your DH and your son could find a mutual interest, even buying a copy of Uno (a card game) and teaching it to your son then playing it together? Or taking up a sport?
That way he could get along with you all rather than the fighting and the 3 against one thing that is developing.
You do need to discuss it with your DH and get some consistency.

My DD is bright with an over active imagination and I'm doing meditation with her now, as she fizzes away all the time, and it is exhausting. She is nearly 8 and still sleeps with her toy elephant, can't sleep without it, this is not unusual at all!

That is really heartening to read brightermornings, thank you. I do try to engage him with dd, Miggsie. He gets cross though if she doesn't smile at him or she gets upset because he is being too rough! His little ego really is bruised easily. Dh left navy last Sept but has not been away since March last year. They do need to bond a bit better, however.
I have thought about talking to school. Maybe now they are into school a bit more, I will. Thanks again xxx

Hi Cheekymonk,

I wanted to respond as I we are going through something similar with DS1. He has changed from being a polite and friendly boy to being rude, agressive, and boundary pushing. DH and I have been talking extensively about how we manage this - I am so frightened of letting him get away with it and letting him think it is ok to treat people badly that I feel I have gone too far the other way - shouting, telling him he's being horrible, that people won't want to be friends with him. I know that this is having a negative effect, and is making him increasingly emotional, but the stress has had a cumulative effect, and situations seem to quickly escalate out of control - often this is completely disproportionate to the initial incident.

Tonight I had a long talk with DS1 and he said for the first time that he felt that we and other people in the family loved DS2 more. He said DS2 was cute, and a baby, everyone wanted to cuddle and play with DS2 and not him. He feels DS2 is a good baby and doesn't need to be told off all the time, unlike him. I think I had underestimated the effect of DS2, and it hasn't been helped by the fact my family all used to idolise DS1, but I know his behaviour makes them impatient too, and this comes across as favouring DS2.

I definitely recommend the sticker chart and providing opportunities to talk about feelings - with the sticker chart, I have been advised not to set too many rewards / punishments attached to it - because then that can set your child up for feelings of failiure if they don't get the agreed number of stickers for a treat (this was the falling down point with us last time we tried a sticker chart, and also stops you from making threats which you then don't follow through on - you said you have a problem with consistent cosequences) - to praise instead the things he does do, and to use it as a positive focus on good behaviour.

What I have started to do, which is helping, while I am getting stressed, is to think of how bad I always feel after I shout at, and take out my frustration at DS1's behaviour on him. I remind myself that the short releases of stress is not worth the feeling of sadness and failure I feel after (I don't think a bit of shouting per se is a bad thing but it has become very negative for us) this helps me to stay a bit calm, even walking away if needs be.

I'm sure you will find your way through this, wishing us both luck!!

I have just worked through everybodys comments and made notes etc. Ihave ordered HSC and unconditional parenting books, will check out meditation and Bach flower remedies and do a sysytem of reward. My son responds well to the green red orange facy system they have at school and choosing golden time as a reward. I have thought about movie nights and have realised, we need to do far more as a family and have become very disconnected. DS has far too much screen time when his ds,wii and pc time is included. He is not having enough sleep or quality 1 2 1 time. He can't handle too many demands at once, especially when they are not respectively given. We need to plan activities and have TV free day. DH and I need to stop arguing in front of kids and if we do, make up in front of him. I have looked at ways to help him manage his anger like getting him to stop, count to 10 etc. I have realised I have a shorter fuse than I first acknowledged and don't always deal with my own anger and frustration very well. We do need to PLAY more.
God, there is so much dh and I have been doing wrong. Have docs later today so will see what she says.
I do thank you all sincerely for all your help and advice. It has been invaluable in trying to salvage this family xxx

Wow, that all sounds amazing, it really does. It's not easy to reflect critically on oneself like you've done. I have high hopes for you all, I think you're going to do an excellent job.

Wow. That's a big list. Start with a hug and take it one step at a time and pat yourselves on the back as you go. Good luck!!

Great plans and enjoy watching him become happier
Respect to you for looking into it all and making the plan he's lucky to have you x

Without wishing to sound flippant

Ditch Horrid Henry

If your child is behaving in the way you have described dont put him in front of a show that glorifies horrible, rude behaviour from a small boy.

I am not suggesting its the solution to your problems - just a tip from someone with a challenging child who reacts badly to certain stimuli - tv being one of them.

You have had good advice so far so i cant really add to it. I would repeat what ACT said - take a step back and have a really good look at what you are doing and how he reacts.

You could try the ABC approach.

Anticedent = the trigger
Behaviour = what he does once triggered
Consequence = what do you/oh do in response.

Be honest. Keep a diary and write it all done under the headings.

Look back on it after a week or two.

Things may become a lot clearer.

I hope things work out for you.

Hi All, as there were so many helpful comments and well-wishers I thought I would do an update. Doctor prescribed DS a sedative which shocked and saddened me but did ensure DS had a deep nights sleep for the week he was on it.
The school nurse has since been round and been a real help. Her simple suggestion of putting pasta in a jar to reward (then buy DS something of his choice when full) has really worked. It solved the bedtime battles almost immediately. DS actually even said he felt more secure and safe. He earns 2 pasta for going to bed without any fuss and 5 for sleeping through. He has not woken in night for ages, despite noisy sister! We also use the strike system that school nurse suggested, giving a warning of a strike for bad behaviour and advising ds he has choice of behaving well or getting another strike if he gets one. If 3 strikes, privilege is lost. They are both quite simple techniques but DS has really responded to them. I have not shouted for ages nor touched ds in a rough manner. The house feels positive and warm and nurturing again. School nurse assured me we weren't dysfunctional but had got into bad habits. She encouraged using a punchbag (but ds has not felt angry enough to use it so far) and allowing ds '10 mins monkey time' when he comes in from school if he wants it (he hasn't so far). Now we can work on the smaller issues like him telling me to shut up etc. Its not a perfect house but far better and happier than it was. I feel I am a much better Mum and am relieved that DS is ok.

cheekymonk I have read this thread from start to finish and it has been a huge inspiration. I admire your ability to admit your faults and really try to change. Actually that is not dysfunctional at all.

I have a 5 year old ds and some of the things you said about your ds ring true. I too have got into bad habits at times and even got physical with him. I once said I didn't like him when he had pushed me to the limit. I always apologise though and our ability to fall out but make up healthily I hopw will teach him much.He is incredibly bright, articulate and sensitive but at times very trying.

I have noted some of the excellent tips and advice. I have been so much more laid back with my dd (2) but I worry about my ds everyday. He just seems so vulnerable somehow despite his capabilities. I too can snap and daily seek more patience, but I know I love him dearly as you do yours.

I think it is more common than you think for a family to reach a crisis point and you even had the guts to admit holding him down was abusive. I think more mothers than you would ever imagine have had similar low points but many will step out the door with a smile on their face and pretend everything is okay - that is more dysfunctional imo than seeking help and admitting you are struggling

Of course it is not okay to abuse our kids but real dysfunction and abuse is different. It is more insipid, more consistent and shoved under the carpet to fester in order to preserve the air of normality - in short the parent's needs come first.

I think boys like ours are difficult to parent but I am sure with a mum trying her best with love they will grow into loving, unique men to be proud of.

I just read this through too....my DS sounds almost identical. We're working through a bang-head-against-brick-wall-with-frustration blip and its been so heart-warming reading through this thread and hearing different people's takes on it and positive steps to take (I'm going to try the pasta jar tomorrow) - and what's monkey time? Its hard when you get into a negative spiral - he plays up, so you get cross, he gets cross and less compliant, etc, etc. You sound like a great and caring Mum as does your DS - glad things are working out!

I'm so glad that this thread has been helpful to you both squarebugs and beesknobblyknees. I often have admired other Mums thinking they are much better than me when they have even admitted 'its all an act'. Monkey time is 10 mins of going nuts really, without hurting anyone or damaging anything. A kind of letting off steam time. Thanks for all your kind words, and best of luck with your boys too x